Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Baptism Debate: White vs Shishko

JM

Member
Free MP3 streaming and downloads of the Baptism Debate!

THE BAPTIST: "Baptism is ONLY for those who have personally repented & believed in Christ."

JAMES WHITE is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona, and is an elder of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. He is a professor, having taught Greek, Systematic Theology and various topics in the field of apologetics. He has authored more than twenty books, including The King James Only Controversy, The Roman Catholic Controversy, The Same Sex Controversy, The Forgotten Trinity, The Potter's Freedom, The God Who Justifies, Dangerous Airwaves: Harold Camping Refuted & Christ's Church Defended and the soon-to-be-published Pulpit Crimes: The Criminal Mishandling of God's Word. He is an accomplished debater, having engaged in more than fifty moderated, public debates with leading proponents of Roman Catholicism, Liberal Protestantism, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostalism and Mormonism.

THE PRESBYTERIAN: "Baptism is NOT only for those who have personally repented & believed in Christ."

BILL SHISHKO has served as Pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, NY, for over 25 years. During his time as pastor there the church has been blessed with significant numerical growth, and has overseen the formation of 2 mission churches (Mount Vernon & Bohemia, NY). He is also one of the instructors for the Ministerial Training Institute, OPC, and an Adjunct Faculty member of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Taylors, SC, where he teaches in the dept. of Applied Theology. He has written numerous articles for the OPC publications NEW HORIZONS and ORDAINED SERVANT, as well as magazines such as The Banner of Truth. His public ministries have taken him to such foreign mission fields as Suriname, Cyprus, Egypt, Uganda, China, Eritrea, and Wales, and his conference ministries have been carried out in a number of states in our own nation.


http://www.opcli.org/display.php?id=15

You gotta hear it.

jm
 
:angel: different churchs call baptism different things. you can be Baptised when your a child or when your older. you can be presented to God as a child or as adult. we do the same thing for the same reson. we are presenting ourselves or our childrens to Him. We are mainly saying that this is who we are and we are going to try to raise our child or live like the bible said to. It should be looked at how strong you are in your fath, it should be looked at like prayer in public. :angel:
 
I listened to almost all of the debate (part 1 & part 2 - oddly part 1 abruptly ends and part two starts sometime later in the debate...why?), and it was quite educational and amazing to listen to. Ulitmately I side with White, though Shishko did bring up some intersesting points about the prophecies to include Children. I never did quite parallel the conditions for taking communion with being baptised, but since both are sacraments of salvation it makes sense. I do not agree, as white points out, the idea of baptising a person regardless of profession (unless explicitly negative) in hopes that one day they will make a positive profession of christ. Baptism does not bestow grace on the person baptised and as both of them admitted they agreed that they most likely had both baptised people who professed to know Christ but really did not. White in addition sounds like quite the scholar and conservative. That basically describes me and I was quite satisfied with his educated arguement and exegesis.
 
Agreed.

The household baptism idea was an argument from silence...Shishko kept making the claim that White had to prove household baptism wasn't vaild, but his effort to prove household baptism only existed in secondary sources...the sources he mentioned did not deal with baptism...explicitly.

jm
 
Dr. White explained Baptism as well as I have heard it explained in regards to infant baptism being non-scriptural, while it seemed to me that Mr. Shishko explained his position in terms of his bias apart from scripture.

When one understands that the Baptism is the point in which the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within a believer after the confession of faith and repentence; and that the water baptism is a sign of one being born again as one obediently follows Jesus Christ.

The main problem in understanding Baptism, is the fact that many professed Christians do not understand being born again and the justification of a believer.

Those that have a problem with understanding the truth that once one is born again, they have received eternal life through Jesus Christ also have a problem understanding Baptism.

The foundation of Jesus Christ has been laid, and is the new faith of the born again individual. The sanctification process then occurs as one grows spiritually throughout ones Christian life. Those that are born of God are new creatures sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
 
More instruction on Baptism: http://www.founders.org/sermons/weekly.html

Week of February 21
The Pope, Indulgences & Jesus Christ
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church
66 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of November 15
God's Covenants: Believers' Children and The New Covenant (#11)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
66 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of November 8
God's Covenants: The New Covenant #2 -- Its Elements (#10)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
56 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of November 1
God's Covenants: The New Covenant #1 -- Theological Considerations (#9)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
55 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of October 25
God's Covenants: The Davidic Covenant (#8)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
59 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of October 18
God's Covenants: The Sinaitic Covenant -- #2 (#7)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
59 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of October 11
God's Covenants: The Sinaitic Covenant -- #1 (#6)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
61 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of October 4
God's Covenants: The Abrahamic Covenant -- Baptist Distinctives (#5)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
60 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of September 27
God's Covenants: An Overview of Galatians Ch. 3 (#4)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
54 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of September 20
God's Covenants: Baptist & Presbyterian Views (#3)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
52 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

There was a technical problem with the recording of #2 in the Malone series. We regret that it is unavailable.

Week of June 28
God's Covenants: The Key to Understanding Scripture (#1)
Fred Malone
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Clinton, Louisiana
Preached at First Baptist Church
54 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of May 24
The Means of Church Revival
Don Whitney
Professor, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Kansas City, Missouri
Preached at the Southern Baptist Founders Conference, 7/23/98
81 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of May 17
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Become Self-Sufficient - Laodicea (Rev. 3:14-22)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 2/22/98
56 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of May 10
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Persevere, Pt. 2 - Philadelphia (Rev. 3:7-13)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 2/15/98
47 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of May 3
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Persevere, Pt. 1 - Philadelphia (Rev. 3:7-13)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 2/8/98
53 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of April 26
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Are Dying - Sardis (Rev. 3:1-6)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 2/1/98
56 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of April 19
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Become Too Tolerant - Thyatira (Rev. 2:18-29)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 11/9/97
55 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of April 12
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Compromise - Pergamos (Rev. 2:12-17)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 11/2/97
56 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of April 5
Christ's Concern for His Church: When They Suffer - Smyrna (Rev. 2:8-11)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 10/26/97
58 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of March 29
Christ's Concern for His Church: When Their Love Grows Cold - Ephesus (Rev. 2:1-7)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 10/19/97
52 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of March 22
Christ's Concern for His Church: His Concern for His Churches (Rev. 1)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 10/12/97
51 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.

Week of March 15
Christ's Concern for His Church: The Exalted Christ Who Speaks (Rev. 1)
Tom Ascol
Pastor, Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida
Preached at Grace Baptist Church, 10/5/97
50 minutes, 8.5 kbps
Right-click to download rather than stream.
 
Back
Top