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Baptism in the Holy Spirit

K

katsa

Guest
Just curious are there any of you here who can speak in tongues?
 
I haven't.
Although after I was saved a lot of people I knew would ask me what I was talking about. They just didn't understand a word I was saying.
:smt102
;-)
 
My church teaches on it and it does happen in the service. I believe that most of them are real and if you have an ear for languages, (if you compare the words to the translation) you can tell which ones are fake and which ones are real. It's perfectly biblical and I'll never understand why so many people are offended by it's very notion.
 
How can you tell if someone is "faking speaking in tongues" I'm quite interested to know this
 
Really, there's no reason to fake it, unless a person is overly self-conscious about it for some reason. I would think that a person would want the real thing. Paul did say to desire these gifts.
 
I think there is a certain amount of motivation for 'faking' it. Many of the churches that embrace the gift of tongues do so out of the belief that it is THE sign that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Not a sign, that any one of the other spiritual gifts could fulfill, but the one and only sign. One of my dearest, best 'on-line' friends, who is Assembly of God, to this day rejects my own testimony of my own baptism in the Holy Spirit, because I don't speak in tongues. I don't reject tongues, but it's not necessarily a gift that I desire as much as I desire other, to my mind, more practical gifts. (I earnestly yearn after the gifts of teaching and discernment.) I know that the evening I became a Christian, I had attended an Assembly of God revival, and the pressure that the congregation put on this, then 13 year old girl, to speak in tongues was both scary and ungodly. I was completely surrounded by a group 'laying hands' on me, urging me to speak in tongues. I finally babbled something or another, after which they all started to praise God and leave me alone. (I vowed never to enter a church again, but God had other plans! :wink: )

Given that experience, I can imagine that there are plenty of times when an individual might feel pressured either because of peer pressure, or the feeling that others will think they are less of a Christian, if they don't speak in tongues. Faking seems an alternative that might be tried by more than one rather frightened, and even a little be angry 13 year old.

To answer the question, "how does one know if one is 'faking' tongues": I believe that the Bible is pretty clear that all genuine tongues will also be accompanied by a genuine interpretation of the tongues. If there is tongues, but no interpretation, the person with the tongues is supposed to be quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:27-33 is a good text to study in regarding the proper use of this spiritual gift.

However, I also think that there is a difference between the gift of tongues and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The two are not synonamous and the one isn't the one and only sign as the other.
 
I'm not saying that people don't fake it. My statement was inferring that I don't see any reason to want to fake something that I would desire to have. So I've never faked it.

My mentioning of a self-conscious reaction, regardless of the situation involved, much as you said, people do that to please somone else. But I want the real thing. I don't have any desire to fool anyone or succumb to people trying to get me to do it. Gifts are available for those who want it, and if we want it, we'll seek it. I've seen folks try to push tongues on other people and the results are nil. It's a very personal thing - between the individual and God and it must be sought after, not coerced or forced.

I would think that requiring tongues as a proof is disheartening to God because He wants people to desire it, not see it as a requirement.
 
I don't speak in tongues. Lots of friends do. My church (Presbyterian) agrees that speaking in tongues is Biblical, but it insists on interpretation which is a bit of a Catch-22. How do you know if someone can interpret without speaking first?

Speaking in tongues mostly is done in context of prayer and Dunamis which is a ministry of Presbyterian-Reformed ministries International. We hold courses on the work and person of the Holy Spirit at our church and others.

To my knowledge speaking in tongues has happened during a service only twice in over 18 years that I have been there. Once a man spoke in tongues and the pastor asked if anyone could interpret and nobody could. Then finally the woman playing the piano sheepishly raised her hand and said that she heard him clearly, but she heard no tongues. She said she heard him only speaking in English and said what she heard.

Another time a man who was not Chinese and could not speak Chinese spoke in Mandarin and someone who spoke Chinese was able to interpret it. The man who spoke had a thick Scottish accent and I had trouble understanding his English, so I imagine understanding his Mandarin was equally hard.

When I first became a Christian, I was witnessed to by a Pentecostal who thought that I needed to speak in tongues. I could not and went through a crisis that lasted years wondering if something was wrong with me. I knew my faith was sincere, but questioned it because I did not speak in tongues. Lots of damage is done by well meaning people.

As I matured, I saw that I was indeed saved and had other gifts. But I never ceased to ask for the gift of tongues which still has not been given to me. Yet, I have been blessing in ways that no longer cause me to doubt. God's love is palpable to me and is with me in ways that I can only wonder at his grace and mercy.

I teach courses on Dunamis without shame or regret that I have not been blessed in this way. I am convinced that I will be given the gift at the time and choosing of the Holy Spirit and content with that knowledge.

We need to look at the motivation of people who speak in tongues in the same way that we should hold prophets up to being accountable. Does it edify and glorify God? Is it consistent with scripture and the nature of God as revealed in scripture? Is it verifiable or consistent with the experience of other believers? Used properly the spiritual gifts strengthen the church, further the work of God and bless both the person receiving the gift and those around him or her.

Blessings,
Dunamite
 
I am so glad that you got this discussion started. So many churches do not believe in the Holy Ghost anymore, and it really is just sad. And if they do believe in the Holy Ghost then they don’t teach it the right way. However, I have attended many, many churches before I was put into foster care and God put me in a home where I could really get to know who he is, and I have experienced the Holy Ghost, even though I have not yet received it, but I am still seeking it.
First of all, let me tell you who, and what, the Holy Ghost is. The Holy Ghost is a connection between God and Man. after Jesus ascended he said he would send "another comforter" (Acts 1-2) that was the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is one of the three, or the trinity. There is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. When you receive the Holy Ghost it is really a blessing. God can speak to you through Him and you can receive the Gifts of the Spirit, which are listed in 2 Corinthians 12. One of them is speaking in other tongues. Once you get the Holy Ghost you can ask for any or all of these gifts, and the bible urges you to seek many of them, if not all of them. However, these gifts have nothing to do with your humanly talents.
You get the holy ghost through "wings of praise" first of all you have to be saved, but there is no amount of time that you would have to have been saved in order to get it. You may have been saved for only 5 min before you receive the Holy Ghost, and it has happened that way. However, you may have to seek it for a while, like me. I am still seeking it. But you have to be persistent. Jacob wrestled with an angel until it would bless him. It is the same thing. You have show God and the Holy Ghost that you really want it and that you wont give up.
When you receive the Holy Ghost, you may speak in tongues. That is one evidence of a person receiving it. However, it is not the only evidence. My cousin received the Holy Ghost and did not speak in tongues. Only you can tell if you received the Holy Ghost or not. Nobody can tell you that you received it or not.
Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the only sin that God cannot forgive. This is because the Holy Ghost is the only connection between man and god, and if you rebuke that connection how can God hear you in order to forgive you. However, in order to blasphemy the Holy Ghost you would have already experienced it, or received it. Blasphemy is just saying that the Holy Ghost is not real or saying that you have it and you don’t or something like that.
Well, if you have any questions anybody can email me at lbgreene352@yahoo.com. Hope I was of assistance. God Bless.

Luv
Laura
 
Hmm, we must be humble. We can do nothing to "get" the spirit. Those in Acts did absolutely nothing to receive the outpouring and indwelling of the Spirit, yet they received it nonetheless. For us, receiving the Spirit is a gift from God just like the gift of salvation through God's grace. It is something we must "patiently" wait while we live out of lives for Christ.

As for possessing spiritual gifts, that's another story, though Paul does allude to no one possessing every gift. He does however ask us to covet the "best gifts". I guess what we must ask now is, "what does he mean by "best gifts"? Is it according to our abilities, according to some unforeseen ability that only God know or is it purely according to God's will for us?"

1 Cor 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1 Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1 Cor 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1 Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1 Cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.
 
The Holy Spirit is a person:

He can love: Roman 15:30
He can discern: 1Corinthians 2:10
He understands: 1 Corinthians 2: 11
He decides: 1 Corinthians 12:11
He can be grieved: Ephesians 4:30

He has many roles:

Counselor: John 14:16
Teacher: John 14:26
Witness: John 15:26
Judge: John 16: 8
Leader: Roman 8:14
Intercessor: Roman 8:26

He makes us children of God: Romans 8:15 - 16
He guarantees our salvation: Ephesians 1: 13 - 14
He convicts us of sin: John 16: 8 - 11
He guides us: John 16: 3
He glorifies Jesus: John 16: 14
He knows the mind of God: Romans 8: 27
He enables us to confess "Jesus is Lord": 1 Corinthians 12: 3
He gives each a manifestation for the common good: 1 Corinthians 12: 7
He raises up the church: Romans 8:10
He makes Jesus' teaching known to us: John 16: 15

He was from the beginning (Genesis 1:2) and was for God's prophets, judges and kings. He was prophesied as being for all people: Joel 2: 28 - 30

Baptism of or in the Holy Spirit is a distinct act which is not the same as water baptism: Acts 1: 5 - 8; Acts 8: 15 - 17; Acts 10: 44 - 48

It can follow being baptized with water or precede it. In Acts 8 above they are baptized with water first, then hands are laid on them and they are baptized with the Holy Spirit. In Acts 10 above they are baptized with the Holy Spirit first and water second.

Laying on of hands is a usual method, but in some cases already mentioned it seems to be initiated by the Holy Spirit directly and not the Spirit endowed believer. See John 20: 22 - 23 where Jesus breathed on the apostles to receive the Holy Spirit.

The purpose of baptism of the Holy Spirit is shown in Acts 1: 8 when he says that "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you" and in Luke 24: 48 - 49. The result of this empowerment is to do God's work on earth.

Jesus was aware of the importance of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in his own ministry. In Luke 12:50 (at this point he was already baptized with water) he says, "But I have a baptism to undergo and how distressed I am until it is completed!" See also: Mark 1: 12 - 13, 4: 18 - 19; Matthew 12: 28; John 5: 19

Blessings,
Dunamite
 
I have spoken in tongues and it's is an amazing unbelievable experience and that doesn't even begin to describe this feeling. When you finally surrender all of yourself to him and let all of your worries and all your thoughts just go and truly focus on God, is when he will pour out his holy spirit. It is then when you have to embrace it. It's really your own personal one on one language with God and if you think about that, that's just incredible that he gave this gift to everyone. It's just like when you were a kid making up your own language with your best friend so you have something to bond with. It's just like that. It's you and God just bonding is the way I like to think about it. You don't even have to know what you're saying. God knows what you're saying and that's all the that matters. You are just embracing his Glory. I love God and all of his gifts that He has to offer. I love that there are talks like these on The Holy Spirit and what He does. It truly amazes me. God is awesome isn't he? He truly is!
 
"To answer the question, "how does one know if one is 'faking' tongues": I believe that the Bible is pretty clear that all genuine tongues will also be accompanied by a genuine interpretation of the tongues. If there is tongues, but no interpretation, the person with the tongues is supposed to be quiet."


to make also this clear. There are two types of Tongues. Like I said earlier, the first type is you and God, talking in your own language. The second type is the one where God actually speak through you. They're not your words, there God's words to the people. Then comes in the gift of the translation so that God's people will know what he says. Some might ask, why doesn't he just come down and tell us himself. Well, he uses these gifts to show us what he can give to us. He uses these to show the signs of being a follower of Jesus Christ. Don't get me wrong, these are not just the only gifts and the only signs. They're just a few of them. Now the first type I talked about is in a sense God's words, but it's you offering yourself up to God to just talk to him in your own language like I said earlier. But yes, two different types of tongues though. Sorry if I made this a little hard to understand. If you need me to clarify on a few things, just point them out to me and I'll do the best I can. God Bless!
 
"We dont need to talk in tounges to speak to god."

Yea I know, you can talk to him anytime you want. This is just another special way God gave you to talk to him. It's another form of communication to him. It's like talking to your buddy online, and then you both get a cell phone and then you can call him. It's just another way to talk to God through one of the gifts he gave to you. God get a great smile upon his face and he sees you using these gifts that he gives you through the Holy Spirit.
 
There are people that can discern spirit.. which lets you know if your faking tongues or not. Also tongues is something everyone can get. I speak in tongues and there's a difference there is about how I felt about Jesus before I had it. There's a different feeling I get when I had it. Having tongues from Pentecostal/Apostolic means your saved. I received it at the age of 13. Been in church all my life. If you haven't experienced it you won't know what I mean. The feeling is so great.. like electric Holiness all over you. lol It's the best EVER! I believe there are 3 types of tongues. One to interpret, one for communicating with Jesus, and the other one God is speaking through you by the tongues. Mark 16:17 says everyone the believes in him shall speak in new tongues. So lets you know anyone can get it. :study
 
kton16 said:
There are people that can discern spirit.. which lets you know if your faking tongues or not.

I must be greatly blessed with discernment. :)

The feeling is so great.. like electric Holiness all over you. lol It's the best EVER!

O-kay.
 
Lol the gift of discernment, just isn't handed to someone.

:) Other people don't understand but once you experince it.. you tell me! :approve :)
 
1st Corinthians

13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


When that which is perfect (the Holy Bible) comes these 3 (and only these 3) gifts are no more.

Tongues was used as a sign and when speaking in tongues one would prophecy. Prophecy is the telling of future events to come. A biblical prophet would tell of biblical event to come. When the scriptures were complete we ave no need for prophecy anymore as we have been told all things in Gods Word. We have no need for supernatural knowledge as we have Gods complete word. And we have no need for tongues and there is no more need for a sign.

"That which is perfect" cannot mean Christ.

Christ has been perfect eternally he is not going to become perfect at a specific time. Also the perfect greek here would read like this "that perfect thing" I do not think Paul with all the words in his arsenal would call his saviour a "thing"

So with these verses here in 1st Corinthians we can see clearly that the gift of tongues is no more.

Again i say that the only people that do this are pentecostals-Charismatics and their offspring churches. And those who read a dakes commentary bible. This is something taught in churches that coinsides with things that are not even in the Bible like Holy drunkeness and soul slaying.
 
daniel6177 said:
1st Corinthians

13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


When that which is perfect (the Holy Bible) comes these 3 (and only these 3) gifts are no more.

Tongues was used as a sign and when speaking in tongues one would prophecy. Prophecy is the telling of future events to come. A biblical prophet would tell of biblical event to come. When the scriptures were complete we ave no need for prophecy anymore as we have been told all things in Gods Word. We have no need for supernatural knowledge as we have Gods complete word. And we have no need for tongues and there is no more need for a sign.

"That which is perfect" cannot mean Christ.

Christ has been perfect eternally he is not going to become perfect at a specific time. Also the perfect greek here would read like this "that perfect thing" I do not think Paul with all the words in his arsenal would call his saviour a "thing"

So with these verses here in 1st Corinthians we can see clearly that the gift of tongues is no more.

Again i say that the only people that do this are pentecostals-Charismatics and their offspring churches. And those who read a dakes commentary bible. This is something taught in churches that coinsides with things that are not even in the Bible like Holy drunkeness and soul slaying.

I do not speak in tongues. Never have and probably never will. I have prayed to God in my English tongue, it works perfectly. :yes

Anyways, if you do not believe tongues are for today, what is the explanation for this phnenomenon? I don't believe tongues are for today either, but I don't know why people still do it. People will say "I know it's true because I have done it and it makes me feel all nice and tingly inside". I would love to hear your opinion as to why people do it.
 
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