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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Basic's of WOF theology?
- Thread starter JM
- Start date
M
mh13
Guest
this is the statement of faith from kenneth hagin ministries.
i take issue with this statement "We accept the New Covenant, as
recorded in the New Testament, as our infallible guide
in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine. "
i believe ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction. you can't throw out the entire old testament just because we're living in the age of grace.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
ANYWHO.....here's the statement of faith. sounds pretty orthodox to me. (orthodox as in lining up w/ scripture, not some 1765 confession from city xyz, or some reformed theologian's viewpoint)
The Scriptures
The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of
holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. We accept the New Covenant, as
recorded in the New Testament, as our infallible guide
in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine. (2
Timothy 3:16; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:21)
The Godhead
Our God is one but is manifested in three persons – the
Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, being co-equal.
(Philippians 2:6)
God the Father is greater than all. He is the Sender of
the Word (logos) and the Begetter. (John 14:28; John
16:28; John 1:14)
The Son is the Word, flesh-covered – the One Begotten –
and He has existed with the Father from the beginning.
(John 1:1; John 1:18; John 1:14)
The Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the
Son and is eternal. (John 15:26)
Man, His Fall and Redemption
Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image
of God, but through Adam's transgression and fall, sin
came into the world. (Romans 5:14) "All have sinned, and
come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) "As it is
written, there is none righteous, no, not one." (Romans
3:10)
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the
work of the devil and gave His life and shed His blood
to redeem and restore man back to God. (1 John 3:8)
Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works
and the law, and is made operative by grace through
faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to
God. (Ephesians 2:8)
Eternal Life and the New Birth
Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that
works repentance. The new birth is necessary to all men,
and when it is experienced, it produces eternal life. (2
Corinthians 7:10; 1 John 5:12; John 3:3-5)
Water Baptism
Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct
commandment of our Lord and is for believers only. The
ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification
with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.
(Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12; Acts
8:36-39)
The following is the usual statement used by the pastor
when conducting a water baptism: "On the confession of
your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and
by His authority, I baptize you in the name of the
Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Amen."
Baptism in the Holy Ghost
The baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from
God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all
believers in this dispensation and is received
subsequent to the new birth. This experience is
accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other
tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance.
(Matthew 3:11; John 14:16, 17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38, 39;
Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:4)
Sanctification
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see
the Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification
as a definite, yet progressive, work of grace commencing
at the time of regeneration and continuing until the
consummation of salvation at Christ's return. (Hebrews
12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians
3:18; Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)
Divine Healing
Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and
is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of
faith and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for
in the atonement of Christ and is the privilege of every
member of the Church (the entire Body of Christ) today.
(Mark 16:18; James 5:14-16; 1 Peter 2:24; Matthew 8:17;
Isaiah 53:4,5)
Resurrection of the Just and the Return of Our Lord
The angels said to Jesus’ disciples,"... this same
Jesus... so shall come in like manner as ye have seen
Him go into heaven". His coming is imminent. When he
comes, "... the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
(Acts 1:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17)
Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth as
King of kings and Lord of lords, and together with His
saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a
thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
Hell and Eternal Retribution
One who physically dies in his sins without accepting
Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the Lake of
Fire and, therefore, has no further opportunity of
hearing the Gospel or of repenting. The Lake of Fire is
literal. The terms eternal and everlasting used in
describing the duration of the punishment of the damned
in the Lake of Fire carry the same thought and meaning
of endless existence as used in denoting the duration of
joy and ecstasy of saints in the presence of God.
(Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 19:20)
i take issue with this statement "We accept the New Covenant, as
recorded in the New Testament, as our infallible guide
in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine. "
i believe ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction. you can't throw out the entire old testament just because we're living in the age of grace.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
ANYWHO.....here's the statement of faith. sounds pretty orthodox to me. (orthodox as in lining up w/ scripture, not some 1765 confession from city xyz, or some reformed theologian's viewpoint)
The Scriptures
The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of
holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. We accept the New Covenant, as
recorded in the New Testament, as our infallible guide
in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine. (2
Timothy 3:16; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:21)
The Godhead
Our God is one but is manifested in three persons – the
Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, being co-equal.
(Philippians 2:6)
God the Father is greater than all. He is the Sender of
the Word (logos) and the Begetter. (John 14:28; John
16:28; John 1:14)
The Son is the Word, flesh-covered – the One Begotten –
and He has existed with the Father from the beginning.
(John 1:1; John 1:18; John 1:14)
The Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the
Son and is eternal. (John 15:26)
Man, His Fall and Redemption
Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image
of God, but through Adam's transgression and fall, sin
came into the world. (Romans 5:14) "All have sinned, and
come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) "As it is
written, there is none righteous, no, not one." (Romans
3:10)
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the
work of the devil and gave His life and shed His blood
to redeem and restore man back to God. (1 John 3:8)
Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works
and the law, and is made operative by grace through
faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to
God. (Ephesians 2:8)
Eternal Life and the New Birth
Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that
works repentance. The new birth is necessary to all men,
and when it is experienced, it produces eternal life. (2
Corinthians 7:10; 1 John 5:12; John 3:3-5)
Water Baptism
Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct
commandment of our Lord and is for believers only. The
ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification
with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.
(Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12; Acts
8:36-39)
The following is the usual statement used by the pastor
when conducting a water baptism: "On the confession of
your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and
by His authority, I baptize you in the name of the
Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Amen."
Baptism in the Holy Ghost
The baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from
God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all
believers in this dispensation and is received
subsequent to the new birth. This experience is
accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other
tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance.
(Matthew 3:11; John 14:16, 17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38, 39;
Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:4)
Sanctification
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see
the Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification
as a definite, yet progressive, work of grace commencing
at the time of regeneration and continuing until the
consummation of salvation at Christ's return. (Hebrews
12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians
3:18; Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)
Divine Healing
Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and
is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of
faith and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for
in the atonement of Christ and is the privilege of every
member of the Church (the entire Body of Christ) today.
(Mark 16:18; James 5:14-16; 1 Peter 2:24; Matthew 8:17;
Isaiah 53:4,5)
Resurrection of the Just and the Return of Our Lord
The angels said to Jesus’ disciples,"... this same
Jesus... so shall come in like manner as ye have seen
Him go into heaven". His coming is imminent. When he
comes, "... the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
(Acts 1:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17)
Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth as
King of kings and Lord of lords, and together with His
saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a
thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
Hell and Eternal Retribution
One who physically dies in his sins without accepting
Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the Lake of
Fire and, therefore, has no further opportunity of
hearing the Gospel or of repenting. The Lake of Fire is
literal. The terms eternal and everlasting used in
describing the duration of the punishment of the damned
in the Lake of Fire carry the same thought and meaning
of endless existence as used in denoting the duration of
joy and ecstasy of saints in the presence of God.
(Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 19:20)
M
mh13
Guest
other basics for wof
-Jesus died spiritually and suffered in hell (i disagree w/ this teaching)
-confession.
this is misunderstood by most. basically, here's how it works. i have mounting financial pressure, so instead of worry which jesus commands not to do, i say often "thank you Lord that you supply all my needs." i wake up in the morning and instead of uuuuhhhhhhhhhh, i say "this is the day that the Lord has made, i will rejoice and be glad!" then as i make my way in to brush my teeth i say "thank you Lord for loading me with benefits today." i get to work and suffer the on the job injustices, i say "thank you Lord, i'm glad that promotion comes not from the east or west, but from the Lord." when i feel discouragement and depression try to come on me, it's "the joy of the Lord is my strength."
i feel nervous about witnessing to someone, i remind myself that "i can do all things through christ who strengthens me." and on and on.... i confess scripture for needs that are covered by scripture. i don't say thank you Lord for a cadillac when i walk out into my driveway, but i can look at my 1994 voyager with a bad oil leak and say, "thank you Lord that you supply all my needs. thank you Lord that your word says that you will withhold no good thing from the who walk uprightly before you". you see reliable transportation to get to work is a good thing, Jesus said his heavenly father gives Good gifts to those who ask
-next, watch what you speak. if i pray according to god's will (which i find in scripture) Jesus said i will receive it. Jesus said that when i pray, believe that i have received it and i will have it. SO, I HAVE TO BELIEVE I HAVE IT, BEFORE I ACTUALLY HAVE IT
so if i pray for something, after i pray i thank him for it, and hold fast to that. let's i pray for healing for my sinus trouble and i thank him for healing. well, i have to believe i'm healed BEFORE i actually feel healed. i cant say thanks for healing me, then 10 minutes later complain about how bad i feel. that is doublemindedness
so there you have some basics.
-Jesus died spiritually and suffered in hell (i disagree w/ this teaching)
-confession.
this is misunderstood by most. basically, here's how it works. i have mounting financial pressure, so instead of worry which jesus commands not to do, i say often "thank you Lord that you supply all my needs." i wake up in the morning and instead of uuuuhhhhhhhhhh, i say "this is the day that the Lord has made, i will rejoice and be glad!" then as i make my way in to brush my teeth i say "thank you Lord for loading me with benefits today." i get to work and suffer the on the job injustices, i say "thank you Lord, i'm glad that promotion comes not from the east or west, but from the Lord." when i feel discouragement and depression try to come on me, it's "the joy of the Lord is my strength."
i feel nervous about witnessing to someone, i remind myself that "i can do all things through christ who strengthens me." and on and on.... i confess scripture for needs that are covered by scripture. i don't say thank you Lord for a cadillac when i walk out into my driveway, but i can look at my 1994 voyager with a bad oil leak and say, "thank you Lord that you supply all my needs. thank you Lord that your word says that you will withhold no good thing from the who walk uprightly before you". you see reliable transportation to get to work is a good thing, Jesus said his heavenly father gives Good gifts to those who ask
-next, watch what you speak. if i pray according to god's will (which i find in scripture) Jesus said i will receive it. Jesus said that when i pray, believe that i have received it and i will have it. SO, I HAVE TO BELIEVE I HAVE IT, BEFORE I ACTUALLY HAVE IT
so if i pray for something, after i pray i thank him for it, and hold fast to that. let's i pray for healing for my sinus trouble and i thank him for healing. well, i have to believe i'm healed BEFORE i actually feel healed. i cant say thanks for healing me, then 10 minutes later complain about how bad i feel. that is doublemindedness
so there you have some basics.
E
evanman
Guest
Many of the doctrines that these WOlFs teach comes via "Direct revelation from "God Himself"!
"If it contradicts scripture then it is more important to believe what God is saying now that something He said over two thousand years ago."
It is this twisted logic that leads all men into error..
"If it contradicts scripture then it is more important to believe what God is saying now that something He said over two thousand years ago."
It is this twisted logic that leads all men into error..
O
ownedbyhim
Guest
WOF
Then Paul, Jeremiah, Elijah, Stephen, John.....
All these men were "not right" with God?
Hogwash.
Frank
Then Paul, Jeremiah, Elijah, Stephen, John.....
All these men were "not right" with God?
Hogwash.
Frank
S
Sothenes
Guest
JM said:
I have a large box of magazines from Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland ministries though not by choice.
You really have to go back to a man named E.W. Kenyon and search using Google with "Kenneth Hagin Plagiarism" and you will find people accusing him of stealing the writings of E.W. Kenyon.
Word of Faith Theology has Jesus dieing to rescue man from the dominion of satan instead of Jesus dieing to satisfy the wrath of God. There is a big difference.
S
Sothenes
Guest
These quotes from Kenneth Copeland demonstrate his aberrant and cultic
teachings. For more information on the Word-Faith Movement, call Abba II
(XXX-XXX-XXXX) - a Christian BBS, specializing in apologetics.
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min, 13 secs--recorded on the "Praise The Lord" program Feb. 5,1986.
- says we are a class of gods) ". . . am I a God? Man was created in the god
class. He was not created in the animal class. He is in the god class. He
has a uniqueness about him that even angels do not have. And that is the God
given right to choose his own words, and speak them, thereby setting his own
divine destiny, his own destination. Cause he can go to Hell if he wants
to, he can go to Heaven if he wants to. And Jesus said, by your words are
you condemned, by your words are you justified, and you will stand in
judgment for every empty word you speak out of your mouth. Well that's
divine things. Now Peter said by exceeding great and precious promises you
become partakers of the divine nature. Alright, are we gods? We are a class
of gods!'
Copeland, Kenneth
(48 secs--recorded from tape, "Following the Faith of Abraham" Tape #01-3001
- talks about God reproducing Himself) ". . . God's reason for creating Adam
was his desire to reproduce hirnself. I mean a reproduction of himself, and
in the garden of Eden he did that. He was not a little like God, he was not
almost like God, he was not subordinate to God even. Now this is hard on the
human mind, but I'm telling you what the Bible said. The Bible said let us
make man in our image and give him dominion."
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min. 3 secs.--recorded from tape, "Following the Faith of Abraham" Tape
#01-3001 - Here talking about Adam being God in the flesh and our planet
being a copy of the mother planet) ". . . You don't think earth was first do
you? Huh? Well you don't think that God made man in his image and then made
earth in some other image. There is not anything under this whole sun that's
[sic] new, are you hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy
of home, it's a copy of the mother plane. Where god lives, he made a little
one just like his and put us on it. And Adam is as much like God as you
could get. Just the same as Jesus, when He came into the earth, he said, 'If
you've seen me, you've seen the Father.' He wasn't a lot like God, He's God
manifested in the flesh, and I want you to know something, Adam in the
Garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh, he was God's very image, the
very likeness, everything he did, everything he said, every move he made was
the very image of Almighty God."
Copeland, Kenneth
(55 secs.--recorded from tape, "Following the Faith of Abraham" Tape ~ 3001
- Adam was walking as a god) ". . . You see Adam was walking as a god. Adam
walked in the gods glass. Adam did things in the class of gods, Hallelujah.
What he said went, what he did counted, and what [sic] when he said and when
he acted on the fact that, and bowed his knee to Satan, and put Satan up
above him, then there wasn't anything God could do about it, cause a god had
placed him there. But in doing so, he bowed his knee to his enemy, to God's
enemy and his, Satan, and the nature of Satan then was lodged in his spirit
forever, unless God could do something about it, because man could not. Why
couldn't he, I thought you said he was a god? He was created in the god
class, but when he committed high treason, he fell below the god class."
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min. 29 secs.--taken from his tape "Substitution and Identification" Tape
#00-0202 - He could have paid for the sins of the world too according to his
own explanation) ". . . The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, 'Son,
realize this, (now follow me in this and don't let your tradition trip you
up)[sic] He said, 'Think this way, a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own
domain.' And I threw my Bible down...like that. I sald, 'What?' He said, 'A
born again man defeated Satan...the first bom of many brethren defeated
him.' He said, 'You are the very image, the very copy of that one.' I said,
'Goodness, gracious, sakes alive!' And I began to see what had gone on in
there, and I said, 'Well now you don't mean--you couldn't dare mean--that I
could have done the same thing?' He said, 'Oh yeah, if you'd had the
knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could've done the same thing,
cause you're a reborn man too.' He said, 'The same power that I used to
raise him from the dead, I used to raise you from your death and
trespasses.' He said, I had to have that copy, that pattern, to establish
judgment on Satan's so that I couId recreate a child and a family and a
whole new race of mankind.' And He said, 'You are in his likeness."'
Copeland, Kenneth
(55 secs - Recorded from tape "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne")
- says Jesus is no longer the only begotten Son of God etc.) ". . . No
listen, from the Book of Acts all the way through, all of the epistles, all
the way through the Revelation of John, Jesus is no longer called the only
begotten Son of God. He's called the first-born from the dead. He's called
in the 8th chapter of Romans the first-born of many brethren. Jesus was the
first-born man to ever be born from sin to righteousness. He was the pattern
of a new race of men to come glory to God! And you know what He did? The
very first thing that this re-born man did, see you have to realize that he
died, you have to realize that he went into the pit of hell as a mortal man
made sin, but He didn't stay there, thank God. He was re-born in the pit of
Hell.
Copeland, Kenneth
(19 secs. - taken from his tape #02-0022) "What Satan Saw On The Day of
Pentecost") - Says that Christs' physical death did NOT pay the price for
sin) ". . . Jesus had to go through that same spiritual death in order to
pay the Drice. Now it wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the
price for sin, because if it had of been any prophet of God that had died
for the last couple of thousand years before that could have paid that
price, it wasn't the physical death, anybody could do that."
Copeland, Kenneth
(2 min. 22 secs - recorded in 1988 on TBN's "Praise-a-thon") - says that the
biggest failure of all time was God) ". . . I was shocked when I found out
who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is. You know everybody you ask
you say, who's the biggest failure? They say, Judas. Somebody else will
say, No, I believe it was Adam. WelI how about the Devil, he's he most
consistent failure, but he's not the biggest in terms of material failure
and so forth. The biggest one in the whole Bible is God. What-what-what?
Don't you turn that set off. You listen to what, ehh I told ya, now you sit
still a minute. You know me well enough to know I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell
somethin' I can't prove in the Bible. But you just stop and think about it a
minute. I mean He lost his top ranking most annointed angel, the first man
He ever created, first woman He ever created, the whole earth and all the
fullness tnere in, a third of the angels at least. That's a big loss, man. I
mean you figure all that, that's a lot of real estate, brother, gone down
the drain. Now God didn't cause alI of that, you see. He didn't do some
thing that caused it. This is, we have to understand that. But He took the
blame for it, didn't He? Yeah He took the blame for it. Why? Well, the buck
stops there. You know in the 54th chapter of Isaiah He said, 'I created the
smith that blows the coals in the fire--I created the waster that destroys,
therefore, no weapon formed against you will prosper.' In other words He
said, I created him and I can handle him. 'In other words, I take...I take
the responsibility for it and I take the responsibility for the deliverance
and the turnaround of the whole thing. Now the reason vou don't think of
God as a failure is He never said He was a failure, and you're not a failure
until you say you're one."
Copeland, Kenneth
(2 min. 37 sec. - talks about his out of body experience) ". . . so I'm
standing there waitin' on 7:30. The microphone was standing on a mike stand
out in the middle of the platform and I'm standin' back over there behind
the curtins. And my body was so achy and so tired, my knees would hardly
hold me up and I'm standin there going like this--and the emptiest sensation
started taking place inside of me I have ever felt in my life. And suddenly
I began to be aware that my body, that my spirit is coming out of my body.
And it, it scared me and I, man I grabbed ahold of it with my will and
wouldn't let it go. He (God) said the day vou were down there in such and
such a time standin' over there behind that curtain and your spirit started
comin out of your body, and you jerked back like that and thought you was
dying and you let fear get ahold of ya, and I remember l did. I said, 'Well
God, I mean ahh, really, now just what kind of a horse do you think I am
that's not gonna, ya know, at least give me a few chills to stand there and
die?' He said, 'You weren't dyin'.' I said, 'What do you mean I wasn't
dyin'? My spirit was comin out of my body.' He said, 'That's right, you were
fixin'..' He said, 'You were just about to come out of your body and I was
going to allow you to minister to that congregation without your body, you
were going to go through that congregation like a whirlwind on the power and
glory of God. I said You'll have to show me that in the Scripture.' And He
showed me 2 Corinthians chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. The Apostle Paul said,
'I bear, I carry around with me the dyin' in my body for vou, that the glory
for God might be manifested in my mortal flesh.' He said, 'The one that
raised Jesus from the dead is in me and He will make alive your mortal
bodies.' He said, 'You missed that opportunity for that experience.' I said,
'What was I gonna do?' He said, 'I'm not gonna tell ya, you missed it.' 'Can
I have a second chance? (ha ha ha ha). He said, 'You walk with me, I'm goin'
to teach ya and train ya about the glory.... '
Copeland, Kenneth
(2 min. 39 secs.--recorded from his tape (#01-061) "Spirit, Soul and Body)
- talking about God's planet, etc.) ". . . You read the Bible's account of
Heaven. It goes into detail about the way some of 'em are dressed. And I'll
tell you right now they're not dressed anything like you think they are, and
they're certainly not floatin' around on clouds pickin' guitars and growing
wings. It doesn't work that way. The Heaven has a North and a South and an
East and a West, consequently it must be a planet. I don't know why God
would make the thing square. There's a city on it that's square, but it
resides on a place and people live there, quite well. In fact, it's
somethin' else. Do you follow along what I'm sayin' to you now? If you know
anything about your Bible ya know what I'm tellin' ya is true. When you
begin to hear it all put in line, the thing makes some sense. Somebody
said, Ya mean we're goin' know one another in Heaven? Well if you're
intelligent enough to know me here, you'll certainly be intelligent enough
to know me there. Huh? You're not going to be less intelligent when you get
there, thank God (audience laughs)! Isn't that the truth? Whooo glory to
God! How come you think you're goin to get to quit work? No, you've been
led around from 10 or 11 at night till 6, 7, 8, 9 o'clock in the mornin',
there won't be anymore of that. Don't need it, praise God. You get your rest
in God. The thing is lit by power and a force that is--the only thing we
have to compare to it is the sun. And the sun, (what we call the sun, the
planet that produces the light for this planet and the heat for this planet)
is a copy. In fact, everything we have is a copy. God created the Garden of
Eden as a copy of the way He lived and wanted to put His family there and
let them live like He lives. And you know some...I used to think...I said,
God, how come when you made Adam, why didn't you have him live up there
where you are?' He said, 'I don't want him to live up here as a servant, I
want to put him down there in his own universe, on his own planet and let
him be god of that world. Let him enjoy what I enjoy here as God of this
world.' And He said, 'It'll be gods and sons!'"
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min, 19 secs.--recorded from his tape (#01-061) "Spirit, Soul and Body")
- talks about God being about 6-2, 6-3, couple hundred pounds or a little
better ) ". .. The Bible said He measures the heavens with a 9" span. Now
the span is the difference between the end of the thumb and the end of the
little finger. And that Bible said, in fact the Amplified translation
translates the Hebrew text that way, that He measured out the heavens with a
9" span. Well, I got a ruler and measured mine, and my span is 8 3/4" long.
So now, God's span is a quarter of an inch..a quarter inch longer than mine.
So you see, that faith didn't come billowing out of some giant monster
somewhere. It came out of the heart of a being that is very uncanny the way
he's very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6-2,
6-3, that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds
or a little better, has a span of 9" across--stood up and said, 'Let it be!'
And this universe situated itself and went into motion, glory to God!
Hallelujah! "
Copeland, Kenneth
(57 secs--recorded from the "Believers Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN
March 28, 1991.) - Here talking about visualization, the force that's
released with the spoken words, and how New Agers can manipulate this force
too.) ". . . you don't even think in words, words create pictures and
pictures in your mind create words, and then the words come back out your
mouth. This is a matter of the mouth and the spirit, we talked about that.
You can't believe one thing in your heart and say somethin' else with your
mouth. You can't say one in your mouth and believe somethin' else in your
heart. Now you can put some kind of a mental confession in your mouth, but
Jesus said, 'Of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.' And that's
when the action takes place, because that's when the spiritual force is
brought up out of the mouth, whether it be fear, or whether it be faith. And
when that spiritual force comes out, it is going to give substance to the
image that's on the inside of you. Ahhh that's that visualization stuff,
ahhh that's that new age...no, new-age is trying to do this. And they get
somewhat results out of it because this is a spiritual law, brother."
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min. 13 secs. - Here he's making threats to people that critize him,
Kenneth Hagin and so on.) ". . . There are people attempting to sit in
judgment right today over, over the ministry that I'm responsible for--and
the ministry that Kenneth E. Haagin is responsible for. Now I'm going to
tell you what brother, it's not going to pay you to bad mouth Kenneth E.
Hagin. You're going to wind up in trouble. I'm talkin' about serious
trouble. Several people that I know have criticized and called that faith
bunch out of Tulsa a cult. And some of them are dead right today in an early
grave because of it and there's more than one of' em got cancer. And they
don't know that's why they did it. These are, these are people that think
they're being honest before God. I mean they love God, sweet Christian
people, and everybody's prayin' and believin' God tryin' to get 'em healed
and can't understand why they don't get healed. Why? Because they're
playin' around over in this area of criticism, playin' around over in there
with another man's calling and another man's ministry. That man is not your
servant so don't judge him. If you can't talk in love, don't talk, just keep
your mouth shut."
Copeland, Kenneth
(15 secs. - Says you are Jesus in the flesh) ". . . now really disease has
had its authority broken, it doesn't have anymore right to stand up in front
of you in Jesus name then it had to stand in front of Jesus when He was
standin' there in the flesh. Because you want me to tell you somethin', you
are Jesus in the flesh."
- Text files examining the Word-Faith Movement are available from Christian
BBS Abba II (XXX-XXX-XXXX).
ÉÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂõ CHRISTIAN BBS ABBA II ÆÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂû
º º
º This file passed through Abba II, where Christians find fellowship, º
º Information and Resources, and where non-christians can find honest, º
º reasonable answers about what (and why) Christians believe. º
º º
º ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ All information can be downloaded OR read on-line ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ º
º º
º þ Unique, Christian Files þ Bible Studies & Discussions º
º þ Abba II's Christian Magazine þ Ministry Newsletters º
º þ News of Interest to Christians þ Christian Directory Âs þ Christian Events Calendar º
º º
ÈÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂõ Call Abba II at XXX-XXX-XXXX ÆÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂü
teachings. For more information on the Word-Faith Movement, call Abba II
(XXX-XXX-XXXX) - a Christian BBS, specializing in apologetics.
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min, 13 secs--recorded on the "Praise The Lord" program Feb. 5,1986.
- says we are a class of gods) ". . . am I a God? Man was created in the god
class. He was not created in the animal class. He is in the god class. He
has a uniqueness about him that even angels do not have. And that is the God
given right to choose his own words, and speak them, thereby setting his own
divine destiny, his own destination. Cause he can go to Hell if he wants
to, he can go to Heaven if he wants to. And Jesus said, by your words are
you condemned, by your words are you justified, and you will stand in
judgment for every empty word you speak out of your mouth. Well that's
divine things. Now Peter said by exceeding great and precious promises you
become partakers of the divine nature. Alright, are we gods? We are a class
of gods!'
Copeland, Kenneth
(48 secs--recorded from tape, "Following the Faith of Abraham" Tape #01-3001
- talks about God reproducing Himself) ". . . God's reason for creating Adam
was his desire to reproduce hirnself. I mean a reproduction of himself, and
in the garden of Eden he did that. He was not a little like God, he was not
almost like God, he was not subordinate to God even. Now this is hard on the
human mind, but I'm telling you what the Bible said. The Bible said let us
make man in our image and give him dominion."
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min. 3 secs.--recorded from tape, "Following the Faith of Abraham" Tape
#01-3001 - Here talking about Adam being God in the flesh and our planet
being a copy of the mother planet) ". . . You don't think earth was first do
you? Huh? Well you don't think that God made man in his image and then made
earth in some other image. There is not anything under this whole sun that's
[sic] new, are you hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy
of home, it's a copy of the mother plane. Where god lives, he made a little
one just like his and put us on it. And Adam is as much like God as you
could get. Just the same as Jesus, when He came into the earth, he said, 'If
you've seen me, you've seen the Father.' He wasn't a lot like God, He's God
manifested in the flesh, and I want you to know something, Adam in the
Garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh, he was God's very image, the
very likeness, everything he did, everything he said, every move he made was
the very image of Almighty God."
Copeland, Kenneth
(55 secs.--recorded from tape, "Following the Faith of Abraham" Tape ~ 3001
- Adam was walking as a god) ". . . You see Adam was walking as a god. Adam
walked in the gods glass. Adam did things in the class of gods, Hallelujah.
What he said went, what he did counted, and what [sic] when he said and when
he acted on the fact that, and bowed his knee to Satan, and put Satan up
above him, then there wasn't anything God could do about it, cause a god had
placed him there. But in doing so, he bowed his knee to his enemy, to God's
enemy and his, Satan, and the nature of Satan then was lodged in his spirit
forever, unless God could do something about it, because man could not. Why
couldn't he, I thought you said he was a god? He was created in the god
class, but when he committed high treason, he fell below the god class."
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min. 29 secs.--taken from his tape "Substitution and Identification" Tape
#00-0202 - He could have paid for the sins of the world too according to his
own explanation) ". . . The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, 'Son,
realize this, (now follow me in this and don't let your tradition trip you
up)[sic] He said, 'Think this way, a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own
domain.' And I threw my Bible down...like that. I sald, 'What?' He said, 'A
born again man defeated Satan...the first bom of many brethren defeated
him.' He said, 'You are the very image, the very copy of that one.' I said,
'Goodness, gracious, sakes alive!' And I began to see what had gone on in
there, and I said, 'Well now you don't mean--you couldn't dare mean--that I
could have done the same thing?' He said, 'Oh yeah, if you'd had the
knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could've done the same thing,
cause you're a reborn man too.' He said, 'The same power that I used to
raise him from the dead, I used to raise you from your death and
trespasses.' He said, I had to have that copy, that pattern, to establish
judgment on Satan's so that I couId recreate a child and a family and a
whole new race of mankind.' And He said, 'You are in his likeness."'
Copeland, Kenneth
(55 secs - Recorded from tape "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne")
- says Jesus is no longer the only begotten Son of God etc.) ". . . No
listen, from the Book of Acts all the way through, all of the epistles, all
the way through the Revelation of John, Jesus is no longer called the only
begotten Son of God. He's called the first-born from the dead. He's called
in the 8th chapter of Romans the first-born of many brethren. Jesus was the
first-born man to ever be born from sin to righteousness. He was the pattern
of a new race of men to come glory to God! And you know what He did? The
very first thing that this re-born man did, see you have to realize that he
died, you have to realize that he went into the pit of hell as a mortal man
made sin, but He didn't stay there, thank God. He was re-born in the pit of
Hell.
Copeland, Kenneth
(19 secs. - taken from his tape #02-0022) "What Satan Saw On The Day of
Pentecost") - Says that Christs' physical death did NOT pay the price for
sin) ". . . Jesus had to go through that same spiritual death in order to
pay the Drice. Now it wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the
price for sin, because if it had of been any prophet of God that had died
for the last couple of thousand years before that could have paid that
price, it wasn't the physical death, anybody could do that."
Copeland, Kenneth
(2 min. 22 secs - recorded in 1988 on TBN's "Praise-a-thon") - says that the
biggest failure of all time was God) ". . . I was shocked when I found out
who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is. You know everybody you ask
you say, who's the biggest failure? They say, Judas. Somebody else will
say, No, I believe it was Adam. WelI how about the Devil, he's he most
consistent failure, but he's not the biggest in terms of material failure
and so forth. The biggest one in the whole Bible is God. What-what-what?
Don't you turn that set off. You listen to what, ehh I told ya, now you sit
still a minute. You know me well enough to know I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell
somethin' I can't prove in the Bible. But you just stop and think about it a
minute. I mean He lost his top ranking most annointed angel, the first man
He ever created, first woman He ever created, the whole earth and all the
fullness tnere in, a third of the angels at least. That's a big loss, man. I
mean you figure all that, that's a lot of real estate, brother, gone down
the drain. Now God didn't cause alI of that, you see. He didn't do some
thing that caused it. This is, we have to understand that. But He took the
blame for it, didn't He? Yeah He took the blame for it. Why? Well, the buck
stops there. You know in the 54th chapter of Isaiah He said, 'I created the
smith that blows the coals in the fire--I created the waster that destroys,
therefore, no weapon formed against you will prosper.' In other words He
said, I created him and I can handle him. 'In other words, I take...I take
the responsibility for it and I take the responsibility for the deliverance
and the turnaround of the whole thing. Now the reason vou don't think of
God as a failure is He never said He was a failure, and you're not a failure
until you say you're one."
Copeland, Kenneth
(2 min. 37 sec. - talks about his out of body experience) ". . . so I'm
standing there waitin' on 7:30. The microphone was standing on a mike stand
out in the middle of the platform and I'm standin' back over there behind
the curtins. And my body was so achy and so tired, my knees would hardly
hold me up and I'm standin there going like this--and the emptiest sensation
started taking place inside of me I have ever felt in my life. And suddenly
I began to be aware that my body, that my spirit is coming out of my body.
And it, it scared me and I, man I grabbed ahold of it with my will and
wouldn't let it go. He (God) said the day vou were down there in such and
such a time standin' over there behind that curtain and your spirit started
comin out of your body, and you jerked back like that and thought you was
dying and you let fear get ahold of ya, and I remember l did. I said, 'Well
God, I mean ahh, really, now just what kind of a horse do you think I am
that's not gonna, ya know, at least give me a few chills to stand there and
die?' He said, 'You weren't dyin'.' I said, 'What do you mean I wasn't
dyin'? My spirit was comin out of my body.' He said, 'That's right, you were
fixin'..' He said, 'You were just about to come out of your body and I was
going to allow you to minister to that congregation without your body, you
were going to go through that congregation like a whirlwind on the power and
glory of God. I said You'll have to show me that in the Scripture.' And He
showed me 2 Corinthians chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. The Apostle Paul said,
'I bear, I carry around with me the dyin' in my body for vou, that the glory
for God might be manifested in my mortal flesh.' He said, 'The one that
raised Jesus from the dead is in me and He will make alive your mortal
bodies.' He said, 'You missed that opportunity for that experience.' I said,
'What was I gonna do?' He said, 'I'm not gonna tell ya, you missed it.' 'Can
I have a second chance? (ha ha ha ha). He said, 'You walk with me, I'm goin'
to teach ya and train ya about the glory.... '
Copeland, Kenneth
(2 min. 39 secs.--recorded from his tape (#01-061) "Spirit, Soul and Body)
- talking about God's planet, etc.) ". . . You read the Bible's account of
Heaven. It goes into detail about the way some of 'em are dressed. And I'll
tell you right now they're not dressed anything like you think they are, and
they're certainly not floatin' around on clouds pickin' guitars and growing
wings. It doesn't work that way. The Heaven has a North and a South and an
East and a West, consequently it must be a planet. I don't know why God
would make the thing square. There's a city on it that's square, but it
resides on a place and people live there, quite well. In fact, it's
somethin' else. Do you follow along what I'm sayin' to you now? If you know
anything about your Bible ya know what I'm tellin' ya is true. When you
begin to hear it all put in line, the thing makes some sense. Somebody
said, Ya mean we're goin' know one another in Heaven? Well if you're
intelligent enough to know me here, you'll certainly be intelligent enough
to know me there. Huh? You're not going to be less intelligent when you get
there, thank God (audience laughs)! Isn't that the truth? Whooo glory to
God! How come you think you're goin to get to quit work? No, you've been
led around from 10 or 11 at night till 6, 7, 8, 9 o'clock in the mornin',
there won't be anymore of that. Don't need it, praise God. You get your rest
in God. The thing is lit by power and a force that is--the only thing we
have to compare to it is the sun. And the sun, (what we call the sun, the
planet that produces the light for this planet and the heat for this planet)
is a copy. In fact, everything we have is a copy. God created the Garden of
Eden as a copy of the way He lived and wanted to put His family there and
let them live like He lives. And you know some...I used to think...I said,
God, how come when you made Adam, why didn't you have him live up there
where you are?' He said, 'I don't want him to live up here as a servant, I
want to put him down there in his own universe, on his own planet and let
him be god of that world. Let him enjoy what I enjoy here as God of this
world.' And He said, 'It'll be gods and sons!'"
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min, 19 secs.--recorded from his tape (#01-061) "Spirit, Soul and Body")
- talks about God being about 6-2, 6-3, couple hundred pounds or a little
better ) ". .. The Bible said He measures the heavens with a 9" span. Now
the span is the difference between the end of the thumb and the end of the
little finger. And that Bible said, in fact the Amplified translation
translates the Hebrew text that way, that He measured out the heavens with a
9" span. Well, I got a ruler and measured mine, and my span is 8 3/4" long.
So now, God's span is a quarter of an inch..a quarter inch longer than mine.
So you see, that faith didn't come billowing out of some giant monster
somewhere. It came out of the heart of a being that is very uncanny the way
he's very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6-2,
6-3, that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds
or a little better, has a span of 9" across--stood up and said, 'Let it be!'
And this universe situated itself and went into motion, glory to God!
Hallelujah! "
Copeland, Kenneth
(57 secs--recorded from the "Believers Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN
March 28, 1991.) - Here talking about visualization, the force that's
released with the spoken words, and how New Agers can manipulate this force
too.) ". . . you don't even think in words, words create pictures and
pictures in your mind create words, and then the words come back out your
mouth. This is a matter of the mouth and the spirit, we talked about that.
You can't believe one thing in your heart and say somethin' else with your
mouth. You can't say one in your mouth and believe somethin' else in your
heart. Now you can put some kind of a mental confession in your mouth, but
Jesus said, 'Of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.' And that's
when the action takes place, because that's when the spiritual force is
brought up out of the mouth, whether it be fear, or whether it be faith. And
when that spiritual force comes out, it is going to give substance to the
image that's on the inside of you. Ahhh that's that visualization stuff,
ahhh that's that new age...no, new-age is trying to do this. And they get
somewhat results out of it because this is a spiritual law, brother."
Copeland, Kenneth
(1 min. 13 secs. - Here he's making threats to people that critize him,
Kenneth Hagin and so on.) ". . . There are people attempting to sit in
judgment right today over, over the ministry that I'm responsible for--and
the ministry that Kenneth E. Haagin is responsible for. Now I'm going to
tell you what brother, it's not going to pay you to bad mouth Kenneth E.
Hagin. You're going to wind up in trouble. I'm talkin' about serious
trouble. Several people that I know have criticized and called that faith
bunch out of Tulsa a cult. And some of them are dead right today in an early
grave because of it and there's more than one of' em got cancer. And they
don't know that's why they did it. These are, these are people that think
they're being honest before God. I mean they love God, sweet Christian
people, and everybody's prayin' and believin' God tryin' to get 'em healed
and can't understand why they don't get healed. Why? Because they're
playin' around over in this area of criticism, playin' around over in there
with another man's calling and another man's ministry. That man is not your
servant so don't judge him. If you can't talk in love, don't talk, just keep
your mouth shut."
Copeland, Kenneth
(15 secs. - Says you are Jesus in the flesh) ". . . now really disease has
had its authority broken, it doesn't have anymore right to stand up in front
of you in Jesus name then it had to stand in front of Jesus when He was
standin' there in the flesh. Because you want me to tell you somethin', you
are Jesus in the flesh."
- Text files examining the Word-Faith Movement are available from Christian
BBS Abba II (XXX-XXX-XXXX).
ÉÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂõ CHRISTIAN BBS ABBA II ÆÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂû
º º
º This file passed through Abba II, where Christians find fellowship, º
º Information and Resources, and where non-christians can find honest, º
º reasonable answers about what (and why) Christians believe. º
º º
º ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ All information can be downloaded OR read on-line ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ º
º º
º þ Unique, Christian Files þ Bible Studies & Discussions º
º þ Abba II's Christian Magazine þ Ministry Newsletters º
º þ News of Interest to Christians þ Christian Directory Âs þ Christian Events Calendar º
º º
ÈÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂõ Call Abba II at XXX-XXX-XXXX ÆÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂü
I
Imagican
Guest
Amazing that anyone would believe that they are able to DEMAND anything from God. This kind of pride is exactly what caused the fall of Lucifer.
These people contend that all you have to do is GIVE THEM your money and God will provide for you. Funny, but what they teach is NOT what live by. They expect YOU to provide for THEM while God is supposed to provide for YOU. Seems kind of one sided if you ask me. Seems that for anyone to follow these Bozos they would have to be blind from the start.
You give to me and God will bless you??????????? You can't be serious. I say let God give to 'them first' and then there will be evidence to what they have to offer. Otherwise this is nothing short of 'stealing' in the name of God.
These people contend that all you have to do is GIVE THEM your money and God will provide for you. Funny, but what they teach is NOT what live by. They expect YOU to provide for THEM while God is supposed to provide for YOU. Seems kind of one sided if you ask me. Seems that for anyone to follow these Bozos they would have to be blind from the start.
You give to me and God will bless you??????????? You can't be serious. I say let God give to 'them first' and then there will be evidence to what they have to offer. Otherwise this is nothing short of 'stealing' in the name of God.