Bible Study Be Biblical!

[Tenchi]

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
​

Often these days, I observe Christians offering spiritual advice to one another of a sort that, as a Christian, makes me shake my head in sadness and frustration. The advice that troubles me is always highly subjective, arising almost entirely out of personal experience and preference and is typically offered amidst phrases like, "What works for me...," or "what I do is...". I'd like to say that this sort of "spiritual" advice always has some kernel of God's truth in it, but many times it is just straight-out, unadulterated secular "wisdom" that has been absorbed - often quite unconsciously - from the World and made to conform to the advisor's personal quirks. What's worse about this sort of advice is that it is frequently directly opposite the counsel of God's word and assumes a parity between personal experience and divinely-inspired Scripture.

What am I talking about, exactly? Well, here are a few examples:

"Just follow your heart."
"Let your conscience be your guide."
"If it doesn't bother you, it's okay."
"Drugs and therapy have helped me more than God ever has."
"Don't worry about your sin. We have total forgiveness in Jesus."
"I'm not much of a Bible reader, but I pray a lot."
"The Christian expert is always right/to be trusted."
"God loves you just as you are."
"God loves the sinner but hates the sin."

Let me show you how these few examples are contrary to God's truth.

"Just follow your heart."

Jeremiah 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Proverbs 28:26
26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool...

Matthew 15:18-20
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man...

Though it is "wisdom" offered to us from almost every corner, "follow your heart" is not biblical! In fact, as you can see above, it is the fool who trusts the "guidance" of their own heart. Unless and until one's heart is redeemed by God and has been transformed by Him, taking on the character of Christ, it remains a deeply corrupt source of "wisdom." Beware, then, the Christian who urges you to just "follow your heart."


"Let your conscience be your guide." ("If it doesn't bother you, it's okay.")

Every person's conscience can be seared, blunted by willful rebellion toward God, by spurning the convicting pressure and constant control of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

How does one "grieve the Holy Spirit"? By rejecting His conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8), by refusing to remain under his control throughout every day (Romans 12:1; 1 Peter 5:6; Romans 6:13-22; James 4:6-10). As this occurs, he is "grieved" and fellowship with God halts entirely. The longer this condition persists, the colder, harder and more deafened to God, to His Spirit, a person becomes.

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Here is the consequence of "grieving the Spirit," of spurning his conviction and refusing his daily control, choosing rebellion and sin, instead. Such a person cannot trust their conscience at all; it is damaged, blunted, seared and thus not reacting to things God regards as evil. This sort of person is one who claims to be a follower of Christ but who, without pang of conscience, reads horror novels, or watches demonic, violence-filled, sexual movies without any qualm, or listens to music filled with messages of despair, hatred, vice and murder; they have posters on the walls of their bedroom depicting demons, symbols of death, and the occult, or pornographic/near-pornographic images; they don't bat an eye at homosexuality, or adultery, or gluttony, or gossip. Why should they? None of these things trouble their damaged conscience in the slightest.

Ephesians 5:3-9
3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not become partners with them;
8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),

Philippians 4:8
8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


"Drugs and therapy have helped me more than God ever has."

Isaiah 26:3-4
3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you.
4 Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD GOD is an everlasting rock.

Philippians 4:6-7
6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 1:7
7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

So convinced are some Christians that the godless World has it right about their inner struggles, their troubled psychology, that they deem it dangerous and irresponsible for fellow Christians to suggest that God can be what He says He will be to His children: the Source of "peace that passes all understanding," the place of "perfect peace" and Giver of a "sound/self-controlled" mind and heart. Here, especially, the personal experience "card" trumps divinely-inspired Scripture very openly and directly. Pride is at the bottom of this thinking; for the believer who denies the plain declaration of God's word above often does so because s/he cannot accept that their understanding, and experience, of God has been at all inferior to those who walk in daily, profound peace, love and joy with God, entirely apart from any drugs or therapy.

As well, God's route to the peace He is, to the stability and love He is, is not instantaneous; it requires a progressive development of ever-deeper knowledge of, and fellowship with, Him that is established on study of, and obedience to, His word and daily submission to the control of His Spirit (Psalms 1; Psalms 119:11, 105, 130; Jeremiah 15:16; Proverbs 3:1-6; Matthew 4:4; James 1:22-25; James 4:6-10; Romans 6:13-22). But the person professing to be a Christian who denies God's word above many times wants the "path of least resistance," the least strenuous, fastest route to an easement of their inner turmoil, the way that requires as little of them possible. They've taken up the idea that they are a helpless victim of disease and are not obliged to do anything to remedy their fear, or depression, or neuroses, or obsessions except be "treated."

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

"Don't worry about your sin. We have total forgiveness in Jesus."

While it's true that the born-again believer has "total forgiveness in Jesus," this fact doesn't describe the entire state-of-affairs spiritually for them. Every sin for which a Christian seeks God forgiveness was paid for by Christ at Calvary; he suffered and died for each and every sin. In other words, God does not wink at sin; He doesn't sweep it under the rug, or turn a blind-eye to our wickedness. No, all of our sin was heaped upon Christ, he was "made to be sin for us who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Corinthians 4:21; Hebrews 9-10:22) And so, the writer of Hebrews makes a very stark point about the person who knows to do right and doesn't do it (who sins), thinking God's grace just "covers it all" and serves as a license to sin:

Hebrews 10:28-31
28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The Christian, then, who thinks its okay to continually wander into sin, to "fudge" morally here and there, to "miss the mark" and go "Oops, sorry!", trusting that God has to forgive their sin because of Christ, misunderstands profoundly what it is to walk with God. Give no heed to any professing believer who urges you to treat sin lightly and be resigned to the idea that the Christian life is a tight, unending cycle (this side of the grave) of sin-confession-sin-confession-sin-confession. S/he doesn't understand the basic truths about what it is to be a Christian.

Romans 6:1-7
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

"I'm not much of a Bible reader, but I pray a lot."

There are a few things God says are "non-negotiables" in our walk with Him. Knowledge, faith, love, submission and holiness are all essential to being a Christian (2 Timothy 3:16-17; Matthew 4:4; Matthew 22:36-38; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3; Hebrews 11:6; 2 Corinthians 5:7; Romans 6:13-22; Romans 12:1; Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 1:15-16). But everything in the Christian life is predicated upon knowledge. One cannot live out that of which they are ignorant. The apostle Paul puts it this way:

2 Timothy 1:12
12 ...for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.

Romans 10:14
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?...
Ephesians 1:15-18
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

So it is that in God's word we are commanded - not merely recommended - to be in Scripture constantly, stuffing ourselves on its "milk" and "meat," saturating ourselves with its purifying and illuminating truth. (Psalms 1; Psalms 119:11, 105; Proverbs 3:1-4; Jeremiah 15:15; 1 Peter 2:2; Matthew 4:4, etc.)

When I hear Christians tell me that they are neglecting God's word but making up for it in prayer, I cringe, knowing that their ignorance of Scripture must inevitably show up in how they pray, and for what. In fact, their disobedience in neglecting God's word is sin, which cripples their praying profoundly. God simply won't hear the prayers of those with sin in their lives.

Psalm 66:18
18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Isaiah 59:2
2 but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

1 Peter 3:10-12
10 For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit;
11 let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

There is no such thing as a Christians who has given short-shrift to the study of the "milk of the word" who has a compensating "ministry of prayer." "Ah, but I have!" some believers will say, in defiance of the plain declaration of Scripture. "God does answer my prayers," they claim, though they have only a cursory understanding of His word. Well, to them, I say that whatever they think is going on between them and God, the TRUTH is that nothing is, so long as they remain willfully in disobedience to His command to be in His word daily, studying, memorizing and manifesting it in their living.

"The Christian expert is always right/to be trusted."

Consider the religious leaders, "experts" on the law of God, of Christ's time (Matthew 23). Consider the modern example of Ravi Zacharias.


"God loves you just as you are." ("God loves the sinner but hates their sin.")

This statement is deceiving. It can be interpreted to mean that God is okay with sin. But the whole project of the Atonement, and the Gospel, indicate that He is not. God hates sin and He will judge and punish eternally any and all sinners who die unrepentant in their sin.

Matthew 16:26-27
26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Romans 2:4-9
4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 He will render to each one according to his works:
7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

So, yes, God loves the World enormously (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9-10), but He ALSO opposes the proud (James 4:6; 1Peter 5:5); He is angry with the wicked every day, preparing instruments of death for them (Psalm 7:11-13); He is a "consuming fire," wreaking vengeance upon the wicked (Hebrews 10:29-32). Beware, then, any Christian who urges you to take up an unbalanced and unscriptural conception of God's love. God is "holy, holy, holy" and this has a tremendous bearing upon our interactions with Him and the nature of His divine love.

 

[donadams]

The apostles are also God breathed do we have to believe (hear) them?

Thanks

(Without the apostolic tradition there is no New Testament canon)

 

[Tenchi]

The apostles are also God breathed do we have to believe (hear) them?

Thanks

(Without the apostolic tradition there is no New Testament canon)

Your question is kinda' off-point. It distracts from the OP, setting up a debate about Roman Catholic apostolic succession rather than discussing the supremacy of Scripture in Christian doctrine and practice. This isn't the forum for debate about RC doctrine, however.

 

[donadams]

Your question is kinda' off-point. It distracts from the OP, setting up a debate about Roman Catholic apostolic succession rather than discussing the supremacy of Scripture in Christian doctrine and practice. This isn't the forum for debate about RC doctrine, however.

But if the apostles have authority then scripture alone would be false?

 

[Tenchi]

What was the point of my OP? Do you know? Have you understood the purpose of the OP? Or are you just knee-jerk reacting to it along the lines of your Roman Catholic doctrine?

 

[donadams]

What was the point of my OP? Do you know? Have you understood the purpose of the OP? Or are you just knee-jerk reacting to it along the lines of your Roman Catholic doctrine?

There is only one faith eph 4:5

 

[donadams]

It’s about the false doctrine the Bible is the “only” or sole authority!

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

 

[Tenchi]

There is only one faith eph 4:5

No, this was not the message of my OP. Not even close.

It’s about the false doctrine the Bible is the “only” or sole authority!

See? You have not understood the OP at all. You simply want to derail this thread into a discussion of your Roman Catholic doctrine. Please don't. You can champion Roman Catholicism in the subforum designated for that purpose.

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

Giving this long column of verses is called "throwing the elephant". It's a tactic designed to stifle discussion: Give your opponent so much data that they can't sort through it all and thus create the impression that the data is all on your side. But as I've demonstrated in other instances where you've tried this tactic, your handling of God's word is very poor. I suspect that every one of the verses you've offered from God's word - in context - don't actually make your case for you. There is also the enormous...irony of your using God's word to undermine its authority. This is a rather self-defeating thing to do since in using Scripture to establish your case, you implicitly recognize the very authority of it that you're trying to diminish.

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

Why are you ignoring my request to lay off the Roman Catholic talking points? Again, if you want to gush about the false doctrines of the RC Church, you can do so in the Roman Catholic subforum. In any case, its really obnoxious to simply hijack this thread, ignoring the content of the OP entirely. Do you do this in normal, face-to-face conversations with people? Do you just thrust yourself into discussions, ignoring what's been said, demanding that those upon whom you've imposed yourself talk about what interests you?

 

[donadams]

No, this was not the message of my OP. Not even close.



See? You have not understood the OP at all. You simply want to derail this thread into a discussion of your Roman Catholic doctrine. Please don't. You can champion Roman Catholicism in the subforum designated for that purpose.



Giving this long column of verses is called "throwing the elephant". It's a tactic designed to stifle discussion: Give your opponent so much data that they can't sort through it all and thus create the impression that the data is all on your side. But as I've demonstrated in other instances where you've tried this tactic, your handling of God's word is very poor. I suspect that every one of the verses you've offered from God's word - in context - don't actually make your case for you. There is also the enormous...irony of your using God's word to undermine its authority. This is a rather self-defeating thing to do since in using Scripture to establish your case, you implicitly recognize the very authority of it that you're trying to diminish.



Why are you ignoring my request to lay off the Roman Catholic talking points? Again, if you want to gush about the false doctrines of the RC Church, you can do so in the Roman Catholic subforum. In any case, its really obnoxious to simply hijack this thread, ignoring the content of the OP entirely. Do you do this in normal, face-to-face conversations with people? Do you just thrust yourself into discussions, ignoring what's been said, demanding that those upon whom you've imposed yourself talk about what interests you?

I have no talking points just biblical
Arguments for the authentic authority of scripture and the church established by Christ!

Do you believe that the Bible is the only authority?

Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

I have no talking points just biblical
Arguments for the authentic authority of scripture and the church established by Christ!

Do you believe that the Bible is the only authority?

Don, this thread started on a very different subject which you're ignoring completely. Until you actually speak to the content of the OP, I've got little to say to you. This thread isn't for you to propagate Roman Catholic ideas but to discuss the OP.

 

[donadams]

Don, this thread started on a very different subject which you're ignoring completely. Until you actually speak to the content of the OP, I've got little to say to you. This thread isn't for you to propagate Roman Catholic ideas but to discuss the OP.

Where can we find the word of god?

 

[Tenchi]

Where can we find the word of god?

What was the message of the OP?

 

[donadams]

It’s about the false doctrine the Bible is the “only” or sole authority!

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

Sad? In what way
Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

Sad? In what way
Thanks

So, you don't know what the OP was about. That's what I thought. Since you can't do me the basic courtesy of understanding and addressing the OP - the basis for this thread - I won't engage you in discussion. Please promote your Roman Catholic dogma elsewhere.

 

[donadams]

No biblical questions allowed!

 

[Tenchi]

No biblical questions allowed!

No, be biblical. Absolutely. But do so while discussing the OP, not your favorite Roman Catholic hobby-horse doctrines.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Tenchu, I read and understand fairly well. With all due respect, your OP is muddled. If you are the original composer, it must have taken many hours to compile and complete. (It was a lot of work.) I do not fully understand what you are trying to convey. Perhaps a short summary with a few bullet points at the end would be helpful.
I would like to join the discussion but I don't understand what main point(s) you want to discuss. Others have tried to engage and you have been quick to try and stop them. It seems like you do not want a discussion. So what do you want?
Sidenote: What do you have against Catholics? I have had many acquaintances who were Catholic and true believers. I understand the denominational differences. I understand some their quirky beliefs and practices. But Jesus is still taught and worshipped. A Catholic believer is saved in the same manner as you or me, by grace through faith.
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz

 

[donadams]

No, be biblical. Absolutely. But do so while discussing the OP, not your favorite Roman Catholic hobby-horse doctrines.

Does “be biblical “ mean that we must believe what the Bible says?
Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

Hey All,
Tenchu, I read and understand fairly well. With all due respect, your OP is muddled.

Muddled? In what way, exactly? Is it my writing that is this way, or your understanding of what I wrote?

If you are the original composer, it must have taken many hours to compile and complete. (It was a lot of work.)

It took about an hour to write. I've been writing and teaching on Christian doctrine and practice for a long time now. Almost everything I cited from Scripture in the OP was from memory.

I do not fully understand what you are trying to convey. Perhaps a short summary with a few bullet points at the end would be helpful.

Or, you could tell me what bits you don't understand and I'll respond with appropriate clarifications.

I would like to join the discussion but I don't understand what main point(s) you want to discuss.

I don't have any particular points I want to chew on. But I would like to confine discussion in this thread to the contents of the OP.

Others have tried to engage and you have been quick to try and stop them. It seems like you do not want a discussion. So what do you want?

Well, hang on, there. Only one other person has tried to engage me in discussion in this thread. We've "crossed swords" before in other threads and so I know where Don is coming from and that he wants to propagate RC doctrine, not actually discuss Scripture. You can see this in this very thread. I've asked Don to comment on the content of the OP, but he wants only to use the OP as a springboard for debate about RC dogma. As far as I can tell, he doesn't actually care what others think and why; he has an "axe to grind" doctrinally and uses the slightest reason to grind it to do so. I don't, then, want to stifle engagement about the OP; I am quite open to discussing the OP with folks who have comments about it. I don't, though, have any interest in making this thread another opportunity for Don to promote his RC doctrine.

Sidenote: What do you have against Catholics?

As people, I have nothing whatever against Roman Catholics. But Roman Catholic doctrine is a deeply-destructive mix of truth and error, that has, I believe, led millions into fear, legalism, hypocrisy and eternal hell.

I understand some their quirky beliefs and practices.

Not merely "quirky"; damnable.

A Catholic believer is saved in the same manner as you or me, by grace through faith.

Not according to the many Roman Catholics I have known, and presently know through marriage. Every single one I've talked to about the Gospel relies upon their good works for salvation, not the saving grace of God extended to them in Jesus Christ. They all of them live in constant doubt and fear about whether or not they will actually get into heaven because they can't be sure their good deeds outweigh their bad ones. They take Communion, baptize their infants, attend mass, visit the confessional, give to the Church, and so on, not because they love Christ, but because they are in persistent fear of not making it into heaven.