Because the Bible says it

[cyberjosh]

Umm... my outlook on life was changed for the better when I viewed Anime, such as Shin Seiki Evangelion and Elfen Lied. The two have both made me a more loving and caring person.

Satan isn't necessarily anti-morals, or even anti-love. But if Satan can get you to look elsewhere than to God and his Holy Word then he can certainly use "good things" to accomplish it, so as to decieve you. Satan can even use truth to his benefit by twisting it to draw someone away from God. Why else do you think that Jesus told the demons to shut up when they openly confessed the truth of Him being the Son of God? So your arguement doesn't hold any inherent weight to it.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Satan isn't necessarily anti-morals, or even anti-love. But if Satan can get you to look elsewhere than to God and his Holy Word then he can certainly use "good things" to accomplish it, so as to decieve you. Satan can even use truth to his benefit by twisting it to draw someone away from God. Why else do you think that Jesus told the demons to shut up when they openly confessed the truth of Him being the Son of God? So your arguement doesn't hold any inherent weight to it.

If Satan teaches good morals and love, then he is a great spiritual teacher. In order for him to be bad, he would need to give you some good morals and some bad ones, as to deceive you.

I get the whole idea of Satan being a deceiver. I am not sure if I believe in a Satan, but I understand the concept.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Satan will always appear to be a humble, good servant of God.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

You can turn this on me, and people have accused me of being a false bringer of light, but I can also use it in reverse.

Think about it. You[Christians] claim to be in sheep's clothing, humbly preaching the Gospel, the Salvation Jesus Christ offers. Underneath the mask of holiness, there is darkness - hell. One could certainly say this is a ravenous doctrine. It states that the most Holy of Holies, God, is going to leave his precious sons and daughters to an eternal agony in Hell. There is no rational way to link this act with a loving God. It is the most evil act possible and to think you are attributing the most evil act to the one you claim is Love and God.

 

[cyberjosh]

In order for him to be bad, he would need to give you some good morals and some bad ones, as to deceive you.

Which is exactly what he does.

I get the whole idea of Satan being a deceiver. I am not sure if I believe in a Satan, but I understand the concept.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Satan will always appear to be a humble, good servant of God.

Very good. He does masquerade as good being, and can "preach truth" but ultimately twists it with lies and deception. That is why Jesus didn't want the demons testifying of him, becuase truth from a bad source is very dangerous, because the bad source can draw you near with an initial truth and then thereafter subtly twist the truth and goad you into believing lies by gaining your trust. This is why the Bible exhorts us to test the spirits, as well as to examine ourselves.

Think about it. You[Christians] claim to be in sheep's clothing, humbly preaching the Gospel, the Salvation Jesus Christ offers. Underneath the mask of holiness, there is darkness - hell. One could certainly say this is a ravenous doctrine. It states that the most Holy of Holies, God, is going to leave his precious sons and daughters to an eternal agony in Hell. There is no rational way to link this act with a loving God.

If you can prove us wrong with Scripture then do so, but Scripture is our standard.

 

[SputnikBoy]

If you can prove us wrong with Scripture then do so, but Scripture is our standard.

Much of mainstream Christianity is so steeped in tradition that it hasn't a CLUE what the scriptures ACTUALLY have to say. For many, saying that "scripture is our standard" is no more than empty rhetoric.

 

[cyberjosh]

Much of mainstream Christianity is so steeped in tradition that it hasn't a CLUE what the scriptures ACTUALLY have to say. For many, saying that "scripture is our standard" is no more than empty rhetoric.

So don't count me as the majority of half-baked Christians. I personally read my Bible.

May I delicately request you to consider Proverbs 18:13 which says, "He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him."

Let's not be too hasty to blow the title of posessing "empty rhetoric" on Christians before we know the situation.

 

[scorpia]

I prayed for about 3 years for any sign that would let me know I am on the right path. By the end, I wondered why a God who had infinite power and loved me enough that he didn't want me to go to hell would not help me find him.

I'm a little bit worried of what you did for you to know the existence of God. Instead of asking for signs from God what you should have done is to seek and ask God to come in to your life. See what the Lord is teaching to the whole world today with respect to those who want God to come in to their life. The Lord said that we must pray to Him in this way:

Our dear Lord God, I thank you for this day, the day that I accepted you. I surrender my all to you. I am seeking your forgiveness for all the sins that I have committed. I know that you’ve been knocking at my heart even long time before, but I became tough enough, I didn’t want you to come into my life, I shut the door to which you must pass in. I also knew that very often I was following evil deeds, not the good deeds. That is why that at this very moment, I am offering to you my whole being, my whole heart and my whole soul, true to my conscience. I am entrusting to you my whole life. I am accepting you as my God, the Almighty One, that you are the only One who has the power to do all the impossibilities in this world. I do promise that you are the only One whom I shall worship beginning today. You are the living God who are reigning as King forever and ever. That is why I am begging you now to come into my life. All these I pray to you in the name of Jesus Christ our Savior, our Lord who reigns as King forever and ever, Amen.

I needed a physical sign to let me know that my beliefs were not made up. I didn't want God to be another Santa Claus that goes away when you stop trying to make yourself believe.

Do not put the cart ahead of the horse bro. Seek your own salvation first who is no other but the Lord God Jesus Christ and when you have done this that you have found the Lord already, more signs from the Lord re:His own existence will be shown to you by the Lord himself. The Lord himself will then teach you what and where is the right path leading to the kingdom of God. Right faith in God pleases God and same can only be made known to us by the Lord God Jesus Christ, no others like the denominations, men pastors, the bible or any other scriptures, etc.

So my conclusion was either that God didn't care if I believe in him or God does not exist.

Who is the loser come Judgment Day should this be the case? The gate of hell is really that wide to accomodate many sinners, will you just let yourself be among them in due time, I'm sure you will not, will you?.

 

[SputnikBoy]

So don't count me as the majority of half-baked Christians. I personally read my Bible.

May I delicately request you to consider Proverbs 18:13 which says, "He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him."

Let's not be too hasty to blow the title of posessing "empty rhetoric" on Christians before we know the situation.

I hear you and stand corrected.

 

[Quath]

I'm a little bit worried of what you did for you to know the existence of God. Instead of asking for signs from God what you should have done is to seek and ask God to come in to your life.

I started off believing that God was part of my life. I was young, but I knew what was required of me from church. I I had completely accepted God and Jesus and had even been baptised into church for several years.

If God is real, then he knew I was seeking reassurance that I was worshiping someone real. My doubts started small and kept growing because I could find no real proof of him. In the end, I decided that I should live my life as if there were no God, but I would keep my ears and eyes open for a sign. Twenty years later and still nothing.

Who is the loser come Judgment Day should this be the case? The gate of hell is really that wide to accomodate many sinners, will you just let yourself be among them in due time, I'm sure you will not, will you?.

If I die and find out I will suffer all of eternity because I could not make myself believe something, then I can easily conclude that God is evil. Therefore, I would not have wanted to worship an evil deity. I may suffer for all of eternity, but I will still maintain my integrity.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I'd been in the denominations twice and none of this thing had I ever witnessed of during those times. I often asked myself then, "are we really believers of the Lord?", "where did the pastor go wrong in delivering his prayer to God to heal the sick?" Now I realise the great mistake - we were just readers and followers of what is written in the bible but not really believers of the true and ever living Almighty Lord God Jesus Christ who is still the Good Pastor and Teacher of all. We did not call on and come to the Lord in the right way for the Lord to come to us in our life, too, like in the days of the biblical characters. We were not under the tutelage of the Lord in those times but only under the tutelage of man pastors. The bible and man pastors are not the Lord God Jesus Christ.

Okay, let's make that "excuse #1"...anyone care to add to the list?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If I die and find out I will suffer all of eternity because I could not make myself believe something, then I can easily conclude that God is evil. Therefore, I would not have wanted to worship an evil deity. I may suffer for all of eternity, but I will still maintain my integrity.

Absolutely, Quath. Basically, the fundamentalist's gospel is that unless we believe in someone we can't see and whose existence cannot be proven (not only believe but "serve") we are doomed to an eternity of suffering. In order to believe that the founder/creator of such a scenario were intrinsically benevolent, let alone loving, one would have to be patently insane, or else they have not fully thought the situation through.

 

[Proximity]

If I die and find out I will suffer all of eternity because I could not make myself believe something, then I can easily conclude that God is evil. Therefore, I would not have wanted to worship an evil deity. I may suffer for all of eternity, but I will still maintain my integrity.

You do worship an evil diety: Yourself.

Look for why God is, not why God isn't.

plus, how about wind? We cannot see it yet we believe it exists because of the effects it has on our world. Hence Faith.

If you want real modern day miracles read the book, "By Faith" by Mike Martin i believe.

Also, i openly admit that the mainstream / stereotype of the modern day christian is an extremely poor representation of what we believe in. Odds are though that if people have come to this forum, they honestly care or are seeking answers and therefore beyond that. I for one study my bible and other literatures that apply. Try reading "Blue like Jazz" that is a powerful book.

Further,

God didn't create hell for us. He created it for Satan and his fallen angels. We sinned. So we are the ones who bought a plot in hell. God, being merciful, didn't immediatly damn us and gave us time to reconcile with him.
I don't see how that is evil, that is loving.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

If God is real, then he knew I was seeking reassurance that I was worshiping someone real. My doubts started small and kept growing because I could find no real proof of him. In the end, I decided that I should live my life as if there were no God, but I would keep my ears and eyes open for a sign. Twenty years later and still nothing.

Perhaps God simply wants us to grow individually. God constantly interfering in the lives of humans, would hurt our self-creation. Again, this is one of my many musings. :P

You do worship an evil diety: Yourself.

Quath is not perfect, but from what I know, he is a good guy.

Look for why God is, not why God isn't.

To me God is because there must have been a first cause (something which transcends space and time). Who this God is, I have no idea.

God didn't create hell for us. He created it for Satan and his fallen angels. We sinned. So we are the ones who bought a plot in hell. God, being merciful, didn't immediatly damn us and gave us time to reconcile with him.
I don't see how that is evil, that is loving.

I am absolutely sick of this rhetoric. :smt011

Human do not send themselves to Hell. God created Hell and created or bended the rules of the universe, so that if we do not except Jesus Christ as our saviour, we go there. God is the one being merciless and the one killing us[hell], yet He poses as our Saviour.

Wake up, and open your eyes. If I were to hold an entire country accountable for evil deeds, and decide that their punishment should be death by nuclear oblivion, launched the missiles, and then decided I should be "merciful" and destroy some of the incoming nuclear missiles, would you call me a Saviour? Suddenly when God does it makes everything all right. :roll:

 

[BradtheImpaler]

God didn't create hell for us. He created it for Satan and his fallen angels. We sinned. So we are the ones who bought a plot in hell. God, being merciful, didn't immediatly damn us and gave us time to reconcile with him.
I don't see how that is evil, that is loving.

Did God, in His omniscience, know that human souls would also end up in hell even though He created it for fallen angels? Yes or no?

 

[Solo]

yep.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Did God, in His omniscience, know that human souls would also end up in hell even though He created it for fallen angels? Yes or no?

Yep.

Knowing that, He made a way out for us.

Take it.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Yep.

Knowing that, He made a way out for us.

Take it.

So then Proximity was wrong when he said God didn't create hell for us?

 

[cyberjosh]

Human do not send themselves to Hell. God created Hell and created or bended the rules of the universe

And what are these mystical/mysterious inherent "rules of the universe"? This almost strikes the same chord of atheists claiming a general "moral understanding" made known to all people, that its just "inherent". My question: If God didn't make either one, then where did these "rules of the universe" or "general moral understandings" come from?

And if God gave us our good moral system then why do attribute his decisions as bad?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Yep.

Knowing that, He made a way out for us.

Take it.

"Love me or else suffer the consequences of eternal torment," eh? Hmmm . . .I wonder if that works? Maybe I could use this ploy on someone whose been ignoring me lately ... ...!

 

[Solo]

"Love me or else suffer the consequences of eternal torment," eh? Hmmm . . .I wonder if that works? Maybe I could use this ploy on someone whose been ignoring me lately ... ...!

Perhaps your misunderstanding comes from a lack of spiritual guidence. Whenever the Holy Spirit takes up residency within a believer at the moment of being born again, born from above, born of God regeneration, he/she is promised that this Comforter will guide and teach him/her into all truth. Without being born from above, born again, born of God one is only a natural man without the ability to understand God's spiritual things because they are foolishness to him/her.

Jesus taught us to repent, believe, and follow him. According to Jesus, one is condemned until one is born again. We love Jesus because he first loved us, and we can not truly love Jesus until we become born again.

 

[scorpia]

If I die and find out I will suffer all of eternity because I could not make myself believe something, then I can easily conclude that God is evil. Therefore, I would not have wanted to worship an evil deity. I may suffer for all of eternity, but I will still maintain my integrity.

I wonder if you can even think of maintaining something to yourself when that time comes.

I started off believing that God was part of my life. I was young, but I knew what was required of me from church. I I had completely accepted God and Jesus and had even been baptised into church for several years.

If God is real, then he knew I was seeking reassurance that I was worshiping someone real. My doubts started small and kept growing because I could find no real proof of him. In the end, I decided that I should live my life as if there were no God, but I would keep my ears and eyes open for a sign. Twenty years later and still nothing.

You're still putting the cart ahead of the horse. It does not really work out well that way.