Beware Of False Prophets

[turnorburn]

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The latest "star" among the Christian world is Joel Osteen, pastor of nondenominational Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. Osteen claims the nation?s largest congregation with over 30,000 members. Lakewood recently purchased the colossal Compaq Center, formerly home of the NBA?s Houston Rockets. After a whopping $95 million in renovations, the Compaq Center now houses Osteen?s empire called Lakewood Church. Osteen continually sells out huge arenas (at $10 a ticket) across the country. (on ebay Osteen?s tickets list for over $100?can you say $ch-ching$?) New York Times (July 18, 2005) reports Lakewood?s 2004 revenue?s of $55 million. Osteen?s book of human-potential, self-esteem, "feel good," self-help-guide titled, Your Best Life Now: Seven Steps to Living at Your Full Potential, ranks number one on the prestigious "New York Times" best-seller list. Wxyz.com writes of Osteen?s enormous popularity, "In the world of religion, he?s achieved the status of a rock star. . ." Clearly, Mr. Osteen wears the coveted crown prince of the Christian kingdom.

Osteen?s message is described as ". . . simple self-help message that congregants say is both uplifting and accessible. . ." Osteen proudly wears the title of "the smiling preacher." His theology has been described as "cotton candy" theology ? tastes good ? but no substance.

Before we examine Osteen?s disturbing theology, let us lay some ground work for our critique. ...

Joel Osteen: True or False?

turnorburn

 

[Alabaster]

Speaking ill of people, especially brothers and sisters in Christ, is plainly gossip and malignant speech.

Joel Osteen may not be many people's cup of tea, but he does present the gospel and people do find the Saviour through His ministry. You may not like it---so don't go to his church or change the channel when he comes on TV.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

The OP art just reminds me of the attack ad on Tom Campbell. :p

 

[Strangelove]

Speaking ill of people, especially brothers and sisters in Christ, is plainly gossip and malignant speech.

Joel Osteen may not be many people's cup of tea, but he does present the gospel and people do find the Saviour through His ministry. You may not like it---so don't go to his church or change the channel when he comes on TV.

Hi Alabaster...nice to meet you. I'm Doc.

Whats your interpretation of Matthew 7:15?

Who are the false prophets that we need to beware of in your opinion?

Cheers.

 

[Alabaster]

Hi Alabaster...nice to meet you. I'm Doc.

Whats your interpretation of Matthew 7:15?

Who are the false prophets that we need to beware of in your opinion?

Cheers.

Joel Osteen is not a prophet. He is a pastor of a large church, where the word of God is proclaimed. If you don't like him, don't go there.

 

[Igor]

Speaking ill of people, especially brothers and sisters in Christ, is plainly gossip and malignant speech.

Joel Osteen may not be many people's cup of tea, but he does present the gospel and people do find the Saviour through His ministry. You may not like it---so don't go to his church or change the channel when he comes on TV.

Joel Osteen is not a prophet. He is a pastor of a large church, where the word of God is proclaimed. If you don't like him, don't go there.

Strong’s H5030 – “nabiy” (Hebrew for “prophet) - 1) spokesman, speaker, prophet
Strongs G5578 – “pseudoprophetes” (Greek for false prophet from Matt 7:15) - 2) a false prophet.

As the leader of this church, he certainly is a spokesman and a speaker, therefore a prophet. And as the leader of the largest congregation in the nation, he certainly does seem to be a lot of people’s cup of tea, no matter what his message may be.

He certainly needs to be able to stand up to the scrutiny of Matt 7:15 before we are to be restricted from maligning him! Irregardless of whether you agree or disagree with him, discussing this is not evil gossip.

 

[Alabaster]

Strong’s H5030 – “nabiy” (Hebrew for “prophet) - 1) spokesman, speaker, prophet
Strongs G5578 – “pseudoprophetes” (Greek for false prophet from Matt 7:15) - 2) a false prophet.

As the leader of this church, her certainly is a spokesman and a speaker, therefore a prophet. And as the leader of the largest congregation in the nation, he certainly does seem to be a lot of people’s cup of tea, no matter what his message may be.

He certainly needs to be able to stand up to the scrutiny of Matt 7:15 before we are to be restricted from maligning him! Irregardless of whether you agree or disagree with him, discussing this is not evil gossip.

Pastors are pastors and that is the gift they walk in. Prophecy is another gift completely and pastors are not necessarily multi-gifted.

If you want to scrutinize a pastor, then scrutinize the one you are assigned to. Otherwise it is simply gossip and malignant speech--even slander. We must refuse to listen to gossip, and obviously, not repeat it.

 

[Strangelove]

Joel Osteen is not a prophet. He is a pastor of a large church, where the word of God is proclaimed. If you don't like him, don't go there.

Ok, I just asked for your interpretation on the verse mate. Who do you consider to be false prophets and false teachers? Do you recognise any in the world today?

2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
​

​

2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.​

2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make
merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth
not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
​

Who are the false teachers who make merchandise of us?

Doc.

 

[Igor]

Pastors are pastors and that is the gift they walk in. Prophecy is another gift completely and pastors are not necessarily multi-gifted.

If you want to scrutinize a pastor, then scrutinize the one you are assigned to. Otherwise it is simply gossip and malignant speech--even slander. We must refuse to listen to gossip, and obviously, not repeat it.

Ok, well I respectfully agree to disagree with you. And I say "respectfully" because I believe you are taking this position out of Godly love, and I respect that. I take it then that you must also disagree with Strong's definition of the original languages as well (as to what constitutes a prophet)? From what I understand, there is also a difference between the word "prophet" as used in a general sense, and the specific "spiritual gift" of prophesy. It's much like having the spiritual gift of "knowledge" does not refer to the same thing as just generally knowing about some subject that you have learned.

I don't know anything about Pastor Osteen or his church, so I am not giving an opinion one way or the other. But I disagree that we, as Christians, do not have a right and a duty to discern false prophets (by whatever title they give themselves in today's world) and to warn other believers about them if they are indeed found to be false.

If you want to scrutinize a pastor, then scrutinize the one you are assigned to...

I'm confused. What do you mean by "assigned to"? To my knowledge, I have never been "assigned to" a pastor. Did you mean to say the pastor that was assigned to my church? (My particular church does not have a head office that assigns pastors to particular congregations, but some churches do.)

 

[Alabaster]

I say 'assigned' because I believe that if we are serious about following after Jesus Christ and fulfilling His particular will for our lives, we need to submit to His leading to the right church and the right pastor.

 

[Igor]

I say 'assigned' because I believe that if we are serious about following after Jesus Christ and fulfilling His particular will for our lives, we need to submit to His leading to the right church and the right pastor.

Thanks. That makes perfect sense now. Just never heard it put that way before!

 

[Strangelove]

I say 'assigned' because I believe that if we are serious about following after Jesus Christ and fulfilling His particular will for our lives, we need to submit to His leading to the right church and the right pastor.

Can you back that belief up with any scripture?

And who do you think are false teachers in the world today that we need to beware of?

 

[Alabaster]

Can you back that belief up with any scripture?

I can back my belief about God leading us to the right places for spiritual growth by all scripture that says we must follow His lead and not our own. He is the one who plants us and uproots us, and if we allow Him to actually be God and Lord over us, we will trust Him to take us to the right places of worship where we can invest or lives and our children's lives to good teaching and leadership. It isn't a crapshoot.

God does the planting.

Jeremiah 17:5-8
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-19338">5</sup> This is what the Lord says:
“Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans,
who rely on human strength
and turn their hearts away from the Lord.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-19339">6</sup> They are like stunted shrubs in the desert,
with no hope for the future.
They will live in the barren wilderness,
in an uninhabited salty land. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-19340">7</sup> “But blessed are those who trust in the Lord
and have made the Lord their hope and confidence.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-19341">8</sup> They are like trees planted along a riverbank,
with roots that reach deep into the water.
Such trees are not bothered by the heat
or worried by long months of drought.
Their leaves stay green,
and they never stop producing fruit.

Psalm 1:1-3
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-13916">1</sup> Oh, the joys of those who do not
follow the advice of the wicked,
or stand around with sinners,
or join in with mockers.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-13917">2</sup> But they delight in the law of the Lord,
meditating on it day and night.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NLT-13918">3</sup> They are like trees planted along the riverbank,
bearing fruit each season.
Their leaves never wither,
and they prosper in all they do.

And who do you think are false teachers in the world today that we need to beware of?

We all need to beware of anyone who teaches lies, but we need to know the word to be able to detect them. Anything or anyone that vaunts itself as truth regarding the gospel of Jesus Christ and rejects correction is an enemy of God and needs to be avoided.

 

[Strangelove]

I can back my belief about God leading us to the right places for spiritual growth by all scripture that says we must follow His lead and not our own. He is the one who plants us and uproots us, and if we allow Him to actually be God and Lord over us, we will trust Him to take us to the right places of worship where we can invest or lives and our children's lives to good teaching and leadership. It isn't a crapshoot.

You said this:

we need to submit to His leading to the right church and the right pastor.

Your scripture says:

“Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans,
who rely on human strength

Slightly contradictory my friend.

We all need to beware of anyone who teaches lies, but we need to know the word to be able to detect them. Anything or anyone that vaunts itself as truth regarding the gospel of Jesus Christ and rejects correction is an enemy of God and needs to be avoided.

Are we aloud to NAME that person if we find them? Or do we just beware personally but not make our Brethren aware?

 

[Alabaster]

You said this:



Your scripture says:



Slightly contradictory my friend.

What is so contradictory? Are you actually presuming to argue that God is not interested in us, and in every detail of our lives, and that he is not wanting to lead us to be planted in God's house for fellowship, for spiritual growth, for receiving ministry as well as ministering ourselves?

Are we aloud to NAME that person if we find them? Or do we just beware personally but not make our Brethren aware?

Ask God if you should publically announce the names of those who would present falsehoods---but check your motives first. Let God speak for you.

What would be better is to go to the one who you believe is countering the word of God and correct him or her, after much prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit. If you can't do that, then you need to zip the lip. Pray, and do spiritual warfare.

For me, I will speak to someone in person if they are open to correction. But what I see here on the internet is akin to a public lynching and is simply catering to baseness.

 

[Strangelove]

What is so contradictory? Are you actually presuming to argue that God is not interested in us, and in every detail of our lives, and that he is not wanting to lead us to be planted in God's house for fellowship, for spiritual growth, for receiving ministry as well as ministering ourselves?

Yes I am absolutely presuming to argue that God is not interested in leading us to a certain building to be led by a certain man. And your scripture proves it.

Ask God if you should publically announce the names of those who would present falsehoods---but check your motives first. Let God speak for you.

I don't have Q&A sessions with God. The Holy Spirit moves in me to say the things I say. That's how God speaks for me.

What would be better is to go to the one who you believe is countering the word of God and correct him or her, after much prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit. If you can't do that, then you need to zip the lip. Pray, and do spiritual warfare.

We are Christians testing the spirits. It is our responsibility to do that. We are on these forums to talk and I don't appretiate someone telling me to zip the lip.

For me, I will speak to someone in person if they are open to correction. But what I see here on the internet is akin to a public lynching and is simply catering to baseness.

Well...I'm not open to correction on the issue. So...I guess you wont be publically lynching me anyomore then?

Good day.

 

[Alabaster]

Yes I am absolutely presuming to argue that God is not interested in leading us to a certain building to be led by a certain man. And your scripture proves it.




I don't have Q&A sessions with God. The Holy Spirit moves in me to say the things I say. That's how God speaks for me.



We are Christians testing the spirits. It is our responsibility to do that. We are on these forums to talk and I don't appretiate someone telling me to zip the lip.



Well...I'm not open to correction on the issue. So...I guess you wont be publically lynching me anyomore then?

Good day.

I am sorry you feel you cannot trust Him to lead you in all things and that you cannot come to Him and ask Him to guide your decisions about where you should worship and who should lead you.

1 Thessalonians 5:12
Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord’s work. They work hard among you and give you spiritual guidance.
Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith.

Hebrews 13:7
Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

 

[Strangelove]

I am sorry you feel you cannot trust Him to lead you in all things and that you cannot come to Him and ask Him to guide your decisions about where you should worship and who should lead you.

I trust Him just fine. And He hasn't led me to any bulding or priest. So I take it He's not interested in doing so right now.

1 Thessalonians 5:12
Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord’s work. They work hard among you and give you spiritual guidance.
Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith.

Fantastic verse. When I see someone who is doing the Lords work I will honor him. And those who don't, like false teachers, I will publically or personally admonish. Fair?

Hebrews 13:7
Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith.

When I meet one I'll let you know. Till then I'll stick to my Bible. I'll follow the example of Christ.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

If only we had more spiritual leaders. They are a dying breed. My spiritual leader right now is Jesus.

Do you believe that anyone who calls themselves a pastor is entitled to obedience?

 

[Alabaster]

I trust Him just fine. And He hasn't led me to any bulding or priest. So I take it He's not interested in doing so right now.

He is, but He isn't going to force His will on you.

Fantastic verse. When I see someone who is doing the Lords work I will honor him. And those who don't, like false teachers, I will publically or personally admonish. Fair?

When I meet one I'll let you know. Till then I'll stick to my Bible. I'll follow the example of Christ.

Our pastors and teachers are our leaders and they deserve our respect and our honour. That is what the Bible says to do. As far as those who try to teach us heresy, we are to AVOID them.

If only we had more spiritual leaders. They are a dying breed. My spiritual leader right now is Jesus.

Do you believe that anyone who calls themselves a pastor is entitled to obedience?

God is raising up new leaders all the time! That is the result of us training up our youth well in the things of God, and showing them by example how to worship, teach, and live for God. That is done in the home and in the churches.

If we are churchless people, how can we raise leaders in the church? No wonder you see a dearth of leaders. I don't. I see a burgeoining group of leaders in this generation. God is performing wonders in the next generation of Christians among us.

 

[Strangelove]

He is, but He isn't going to force His will on you.

His will be done in me by the Holy Spirit.

Our pastors and teachers are our leaders and they deserve our respect and our honour. That is what the Bible says to do.

Agreed! But they have to be in truth to deserve our respect and honour.

As far as those who try to teach us heresy, we are to AVOID them.

No....we are told to BEWARE. To be aware. Which means to attend to, or give our strict attention to. And RESPOND to. In other words we need to SHINE A LIGHT on them. Which is what we are doing in this thread.

God is raising up new leaders all the time! That is the result of us training up our youth well in the things of God, and showing them by example how to worship, teach, and live for God. That is done in the home and in the churches.

I agree that God is raising up new teachers but they are OUTSIDE of the traditional churchianity system. So we don't NEED the church building to raise teachers or new Christians. In fact WE don't need to do anything other than offer the Gospel to people. God will do the rest.

If we are churchless people, how can we raise leaders in the church? No wonder you see a dearth of leaders. I don't. I see a burgeoining group of leaders in this generation. God is performing wonders in the next generation of Christians among us.

You optimism is admirable but scripture disagrees. There is only one direction that traditional church Christianity is sliding and that is into APOSTACY.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;​

But as you say, by the will of God, new believers are being raised (like me) completely outside of the apostate church environment.