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Bible Characters, That The Quran Has Wrong

Lewis

Member
Let me give just a little taste of things wrong with the quran. This stuff here is all wrong.

Potiphar vs. Aziz
Mohammad relates the story of Joseph, whom Potiphar and the men of his city imprisoned out of jealousy. In the Quranic version of the story, Mohammad gives the name of the master of the house as "Aziz." Aside from the variations between the Biblical and Quranic versions, it is important to note that the name Aziz is uniquely Arabic. In fact, the name Aziz was not Egyptian, nor is it known to have been in use by any Egyptian during the period Joseph lived.

Egyptian Crucifixion
The Quran notes in Sura 7:123-124

Said Pharaoh: "believe ye in him before I give you permission? Surely this is a trick which ye have planned in the city to drive out its people: but soon shall ye know (the consequences). Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides and I will cause you all to die on the cross."

Crucifixion would not be invented for many hundreds of years after this event.

Alexander the Great
18:86. "Until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it in a spring of murky water; near it he found a people. We said, O'Zul­qarnain, either punish them or show them kindness."

"Zul­qarnain" is a reference to Alexander the Great. Alexander was a pretty busy guy. When did he find time to do this in his short 33 years of life? Aside from the science, Alexander left no record of such an event. If he did, well, that would be something else. We might think he was crazy.

Problems with the Qur'an
Muslims are quick to criticise the Bible’s authenticity and authority; and make the most of the writings of liberal Christian scholars in doing so. But what of their own scriptures? The Qur’an has, in the past, been protected by a kind of doctrinal embargo - but now its historicity, claimed inimitability and historical accuracy are facing a blistering attack from contemporary scholarship.

Missing Manuscripts

According to Muslim tradition the Qur’an was received by Muhammad between AD 610 and 632, recorded by his companions, collected by Zaid-Ibn-Thabit, standardised by Uthman the third Caliph, and then distributed to Baghdad, Medina, Basra, Kufa and Damascus in AD 646-650.

Where then are the original manuscripts? The Qur’anic manuscripts Muslims regard as their earliest; the Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul, Turkey, and the Samarkand manuscript in the Soviet State Library in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, bear the marks of a date of authorship of ~AD 850. They are written in a form of Kufic script which arose in the Abbasid period (~AD 750-850) and are adorned with 9th century embellishments.

The oldest Qur’an, according to forensic dating, is in the British Library. It dates to around AD 790; almost 150 years after Muhammad’s death.

Muslims defend their inability to produce early manuscripts by saying that the Qur’an was originally passed down orally and that early copies have disintegrated. But Muslim tradition itself tells us that the Qur’an was written down 20 years after Muhammad died and we have other Arab literature that has survived from the 7th century. We know that there were secretaries during the Ummayad Dynasty (AD 660-750) and that Muhammad himself worked on a caravan where written records of transactions would have been kept.

The defence of disintegration can be applied to the early New Testament documents which were written on papyrus. However the earliest Qur’ans were written on parchment, a far more robust material. Many of the early Christian parchment manuscripts (such as the Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Sinaiticus) have been preserved in extremely good condition despite predating the Qur’an by several centuries.

The missing manuscripts are a huge embarrassment to Islam and raise serious questions about whether what Muslims now have are accurate copies of the original. Some scholars are proposing that the Qur’anic text was not standardised until the Abbasid period (AD 750).

Imitable Style

The Qur’an bases its claim of divine authorship on its supposed inimitability. Christians who question the book’s origin are challenged to ‘Bring then a Sura (chapter) like unto it’ (Sura 10:38). The Qur’an’s literary beauty is supposed to prove that it could not have been ‘produced by other than Allah’ (S 10:37).

But is the Qur’an beautiful? Many genuine seekers find its haphazard arrangement, jumbled chronology and endless repetition an insurmountable obstacle. Muslims usually object that the real beauty can only be appreciated in Arabic; and yet great works of literature like Solzenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago and the Hebrew Psalms retain their beauty in English translation. (If in doubt compare Psalm 23 and Sura 109 in English translation and judge for yourself).

Even if we give the Qur’an the benefit of the doubt, is beauty proof of divine origin? Many people would agree that Shakespeare’s plays, Hopkins’ poetry and Vivaldi’s music are magnificent. Indeed, they may lead us to worship God as the giver of such creative talent, but we don’t therefore conclude that only God’s supernatural dictation could have produced these works of art.

In any case, beauty is to some extent subjective an the final judges will always be Muslims, duty-bound to reject any challenge out of hand.

Gerhard Nehls has produced an impressive list of ‘beautiful suras’ in English in his book Christians ask Muslims as noted in the last issue of Isa Masih. A selection of Arabic suras was recently removed from the internet after America On Line faced a barrage of Muslim protests.

Borrowed Stories

Those reading the Qur’an for the first time cannot help but be struck by the number of stories about biblical characters which do not tally with what we know from other historical sources. The usual Muslim defence is to say that the Bible has been changed [but see article on 'Your Bible has been corrupted'- Ed]. However, now we are beginning to identify the real sources for the Qur’an’s mythology.

The account of a raven showing Cain how to hide his brother’s body (S 5:30-32) has its origins in the Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah, the Targum of Jerusalem and the Pirke-Rabbi Eleazar; all apocryphal Jewish writings from the Talmud dating from AD 150-200.

The story of Abraham breaking the idols (S 21:51-71) comes from a set of second century Jewish folktales called the Midrash Rabbah; and the bizarre account of the Queen of Sheba lifting her skirts to walk across a mirrored floor (S 27:44) is derived from a second century apocryphal document called the Targum of Esther.

Equally strange stories from the childhood of Jesus, such as his making real pigeons from clay (S 3:49), and speaking from the cradle (S 19:29-33) originate in the History of Nativity, the First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ and Thomas’ Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, further fanciful fiction from the early Christian era.

Contradictions and Inaccuracies

The contradictions in the Qur’an are well recognised and have been extensively documented elsewhere.

But perhaps even more damaging to Islamic beliefs about the Qur’an are the factual errors that litter the text. Mary, rather than the Holy Spirit, is identified as the third person of the trinity in Sura 5:119. She is also called the sister of Aaron (Moses’ brother) despite the fact that the two lived 1,500 years apart in history (S 19:28).

We are told in Sura 20:85-87 that a Samaritan was responsible for casting the golden calf of the Exodus, when in fact the Samaritans did not come into existence until after the Jewish exile hundreds of years later. In a similar vein Haman (Esther’s Persian enemy) is identified as a servant of the Egyptian pharoah at the time of Moses.

Once we appreciate that the Bible was not available in Arabic until the mid eighth century, it becomes clear how such glaring fallacies may have found their way into the Qur’an through corrupted oral tradition and hearsay.

Conclusions

Could God really be responsible for a book for which there is so little early manuscript evidence and containing so many inaccuracies? Surely the evidence speaks for itself.

For further reading see the following internet articles by Jay Smith:
http://www.sullivan-county.com/x/prob_koran.htm
 
you cant really say any religion is "wrong" because no one knows for sure which is right. Im am a christian but I wont openly say that all other religions are wrong one because I would'nt want anyone to say that about my religion two because I dont know and wont know which religion is truly correct uintil I die, christianity for me is true but thats only my truth and I have no right tosay another person is wrong when I could be.
 
Roku55 said:
you cant really say any religion is "wrong" because no one knows for sure which is right. Im am a christian but I wont openly say that all other religions are wrong one because I would'nt want anyone to say that about my religion two because I dont know and wont know which religion is truly correct uintil I die, christianity for me is true but thats only my truth and I have no right tosay another person is wrong when I could be.
It sounds like you have some uncertainity in your belief. Either you are right and they are wrong. They are right and you are wrong. Or you both are wrong.

If you are certain of your belief, then you know they are wrong.

So I am just curious as to whether you don't tell people they are wrong out of uncertainity or out of politeness.
 
... a good place to start would be to actually READ the Quran!

I am sure you will (eventually) do that Quath.

Then we can laugh together!

:)
 
Quath said:
Roku55 said:
you cant really say any religion is "wrong" because no one knows for sure which is right. Im am a christian but I wont openly say that all other religions are wrong one because I would'nt want anyone to say that about my religion two because I dont know and wont know which religion is truly correct uintil I die, christianity for me is true but thats only my truth and I have no right tosay another person is wrong when I could be.
It sounds like you have some uncertainity in your belief. Either you are right and they are wrong. They are right and you are wrong. Or you both are wrong.

If you are certain of your belief, then you know they are wrong.

So I am just curious as to whether you don't tell people they are wrong out of uncertainity or out of politeness.
No Im completely certain that what I believe is true but that does'nt mean I have to right to call anothers religion wrong because mine can not be called "right" either,
 
Roku55 said:
No Im completely certain that what I believe is true but that does'nt mean I have to right to call anothers religion wrong because mine can not be called "right" either,
So is this like a compromise? You don't say their religion is wong if they don't say yours is wrong?

Or do you think there are other possible ways to salvation that you may not know?

Gary said:
a good place to start would be to actually READ the Quran!

I am sure you will (eventually) do that Quath.

Then we can laugh together!
I did read a few passages from the Quran and I did get a good chuckle from them. :)
 
Gary said:
.... a good place to start would be to actually READ the Quran!

I am sure you will (eventually) do that Quath.

Then we can laugh together!
Quath said:
I did read a few passages from the Quran and I did get a good chuckle from them. :)

Which passages did you read? What was so funny about them?
 
Roku55 said:
you cant really say any religion is "wrong" because no one knows for sure which is right. Im am a christian but I wont openly say that all other religions are wrong one because I would'nt want anyone to say that about my religion two because I dont know and wont know which religion is truly correct uintil I die, christianity for me is true but thats only my truth and I have no right tosay another person is wrong when I could be.
WHAT!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
 
Lewis W said:
Roku55 said:
you cant really say any religion is "wrong" because no one knows for sure which is right. Im am a christian but I wont openly say that all other religions are wrong one because I would'nt want anyone to say that about my religion two because I dont know and wont know which religion is truly correct uintil I die, christianity for me is true but thats only my truth and I have no right tosay another person is wrong when I could be.
WHAT!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

antother generic answer from you man you never explain just complain


me and roku are best friends so ill expalian somethign

So is this like a compromise? You don't say their religion is wong if they don't say yours is wrong?

Or do you think there are other possible ways to salvation that you may not know?

no all he is saying is that techicaly noone knows what religion is "true" we beleive that our god is the true god and our religion is correct but so does every other religion so we have no right to say they are wrong if we dont know if we are even right in the first placve

@ Lewis W and everyone else
techincaly he is right what is to say that the allah realy is the true god? i beleive in GOD but not the standard christain god i belieive that all religions are true just in diferent aspects



Crucifixion would not be invented for many hundreds of years after this event.

well the quraran is techicaly not that old so
and anyway crucifixion is a very old execution method not to mention was widely used throught europe and the mid east
 
antother generic answer from you man you never explain just complain
Man this is a Christian forum first of all, and you cats are trying to get us to compromise ? It will never happen here. We have the true book, and the Holy Ghost testifies to that. You would not understand that. For how could you when you have not the Holy Ghost within you, you will never be able to understand us, without Him. The Bible says that the things we say is foolishness to the natural man, that be you. When the Spirit of God is upon you. You will have a understanding and a connection that the natural man does not have, and no other faith has the Holy Ghost. And sometimes I don't have to explain, you all know what we are about, you guy's have seen many of the posts on this site. We can't prove anything to you, but God can. Anything we say to you. You will go up against. Our job is to give you the Word of the true God, and you can except it or reject it. But don't you guy's come here trying to make us say, well maybe the other religions could be right too. Because I got news for you, it will never happen.
 
Gary said:
Which passages did you read? What was so funny about them?
It was Sura 66. It tells the story of how Muhammad slept with a wife out of turn (Mary) and then made a vow to Allah not to touch her. But his favorite wife found out, and Muhammad secluded himself away with Mary for several weeks.

But Allah fixes this domestic problem by allowing for Allah to break his vow and threatened to punish the wives with hellfire and eternal torment if they did not repent and obey Muhammad.

Allah should have sent in Dr. Phil instead. :-D
 
Lewis W said:
antother generic answer from you man you never explain just complain
Man this is a Christian forum first of all, and you cats are trying to get us to compromise ? It will never happen here. We have the true book, and the Holy Ghost testifies to that. You would not understand that. For how could you when you have not the Holy Ghost within you, you will never be able to understand us, without Him. The Bible says that the things we say is foolishness to the natural man, that be you. When the Spirit of God is upon you. You will have a understanding and a connection that the natural man does not have, and no other faith has the Holy Ghost. And sometimes I don't have to explain, you all know what we are about, you guy's have seen many of the posts on this site. We can't prove anything to you, but God can. Anything we say to you. You will go up against. Our job is to give you the Word of the true God, and you can except it or reject it. But don't you guy's come here trying to make us say, well maybe the other religions could be right too. Because I got news for you, it will never happen.

i don't want a compromise just want to prove my point.....

and also yet again you haven't done anything but complain about me how bout responding instead of complaining

and about the last part of your post i never asked for anyone to admit it i just made a point saying who is to say that we are wrong.. or someone else is right never asked for you to agree but hey if thats how you take it then thats your own truth.

@Quath
well to a christian that sounds really messed up lol
but let me just ask.. i am not asking for anyone to answer or agree but say you were brought up without the value's of christianity.. would that sound as wrong if you didn't have the moral's of christianity to guide you? all i am trying to say is don't always look at things from a christian standpoints.. i am a christian but i look at this from all prospectives
 
:D thank you... good advise!

Yes, you are right: This is one of the most fascinating Suras in the entire Qur'an. In 12 verses, Muhammad violates a deal that he made with his wives, makes and breaks an oath, and receives a "revelation" from God just in time to get him out of trouble.

"Mary (the Copt) was a Christian slave given to Mohammed 7 A.H. (628 A.D.) by the Governor of Egypt, Elmokaukas. Her sister, Shereena was also given at the same time. Mohammed became intimate with Mary and she bore him Ibrahim, who died in 10 A.H. The intimacy took place in the home and bed of his wife Hafsah (daughter of Umar) who was absent at that moment and on the day which was either her or Ayshah's turn. When Hafsah found this out and questioned him he promised (on oath) not to touch Mary again if she would keep this a secret, and promised that Umar and Abu-Bakr should be his successors. Hafsah, however, told Ayshah about this event, and for a full month Mohammed had no dealings with any of his wives, living with Mary alone." During that period this "revelation" was given. ("Der Koran", translated by Ludwig Ullman, Footnote 2 of Sura 66:1-2, page 456).

Muhammad's wives had to take revolving "turns" to be with their husband. Muhammad ignored his own system and had sexual relations with Mary the Copt on a day that was either Hafsah's or Aishah's "turn". Hafsah discovered Muhammad's breach of protocol and became upset. Muhammad promised her that he would not have sexual relations with Mary, probably out of fear that Hafsah would tell his favorite wife, Aishah - whom he married when she was a child of about 9 years of age.

Hafsah and Aishah were, according to the traditions, often competitors for Muhammad's attention, and Hafsah told Aishah the entire sordid story. We can only imagine the anger of Aishah and the other wives of Muhammad. In retaliation, Muhammad boycotted the other wives, in respect to his sexual relations with them, and co-habitated exclusively with Mary. After one month, we are told by the traditions and the Qur'an that Almighty God intervened on Muhammad's behalf.

If we believe the testimony of the Qur'an, God tells Muhammad that it is acceptable for him to break his own oaths! Imagine Almighty God promoting and commending a breach of an oath made by Muhammad, especially under such circumstances as the satiation of Muhammad's carnal desires!

But wait, things become much worse! God warns Muhammad's wives against conspiring against the "Prophet". If they do not heed this warning, they will face Almighty God, the Archangel Gabriel and all of the angels, as well as all of the righteous. What chance would these poor women have against such opposition?

Another threat against the wives of Muhammad is that Almighty God, in complete disregard to His revelations in earlier scriptures against divorce, will permit Muhammad to divorce his wives AND find prettier wives for him! But the intimidation does not end with the threats of divorce! God threatens the wives of Muhammad AND their families with the eternal fires of Hell! After Muhammad's lies and betrayal, his wives are commanded to repent (for what I am honestly not sure) and Muhammad is exhorted to fight against the unbelievers. We are told that Almighty God then gave the wives of Muhammad "positive role models" of female behavior, including Mary the mother of Jesus who is incorrectly called the daughter of Imran! But who cares about the details at a time like this?

More: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Tafsir/066.html

:o
 
that was well thought out and well stated
but one thing.. in the quran does it say you cannot have multiple wives....
because if not it isn't wrong to the muslim eyes but it is wrong to us only because we don't follow the rules or laws of islam.. although it is kind of odd that he took "turns" with his wives
 
MorgWolfsong said:
Lewis W said:
antother generic answer from you man you never explain just complain
Man this is a Christian forum first of all, and you cats are trying to get us to compromise ? It will never happen here. We have the true book, and the Holy Ghost testifies to that. You would not understand that. For how could you when you have not the Holy Ghost within you, you will never be able to understand us, without Him. The Bible says that the things we say is foolishness to the natural man, that be you. When the Spirit of God is upon you. You will have a understanding and a connection that the natural man does not have, and no other faith has the Holy Ghost. And sometimes I don't have to explain, you all know what we are about, you guy's have seen many of the posts on this site. We can't prove anything to you, but God can. Anything we say to you. You will go up against. Our job is to give you the Word of the true God, and you can except it or reject it. But don't you guy's come here trying to make us say, well maybe the other religions could be right too. Because I got news for you, it will never happen.

i don't want a compromise just want to prove my point.....

and also yet again you haven't done anything but complain about me how bout responding instead of complaining

and about the last part of your post i never asked for anyone to admit it i just made a point saying who is to say that we are wrong.. or someone else is right never asked for you to agree but hey if thats how you take it then thats your own truth.

@Quath
well to a christian that sounds really messed up lol
but let me just ask.. i am not asking for anyone to answer or agree but say you were brought up without the value's of christianity.. would that sound as wrong if you didn't have the moral's of christianity to guide you? all i am trying to say is don't always look at things from a christian standpoints.. i am a christian but i look at this from all prospectives
Man you have 37 post here and you are going to sit back and tell me, that I don't explain anything, you don't know me, and you have not been here long enough to know me. When I feel like explaining something I do it. And if I don't feel like it, I won't. It is just that simple. And I did give you a answer, I said the Holy Ghost testifies.
 
Multiple wives...

MorgWolfsong said:
.. in the quran does it say you cannot have multiple wives??.... because if not it isn't wrong to the muslim eyes but it is wrong to us only because we don't follow the rules or laws of islam.. although it is kind of odd that he took "turns" with his wives
Muhammad had rules for himself and a different set for his followers! Of course, his were more advantageous for himself! He had at least 11 (if not 22) wives!.... and they had turns (until he changed that rule as well!)

But his followers are limited to 4 wives.

Let me copy-n-paste the rest. It is easier!

:wink:

Muslims will tell you a Muslim man can have up to four wives at a time, based on Sura 4:3. Strictly speaking that is not the complete truth, as a Muslim can also have unlimited concubines and can have sex with "women their right hands possess". (i.e slaves) (Sura 23:5-6; 33:50,52; 4:24; Sura 70:29-30). Regardless, though, Mohammed recited a verse in the Qur’an (Sura 33:50) that made an exception for one individual: himself. Why is that?

‘Aisha remarked, "It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3453-3454 p.748-749.

Read more; it tells you something about this so-called prophet:
http://www.muslimhope.com/WhyDidMohamme ... yWives.htm

:o :o
 
MorgWolfsong said:
well to a christian that sounds really messed up lol
but let me just ask.. i am not asking for anyone to answer or agree but say you were brought up without the value's of christianity.. would that sound as wrong if you didn't have the moral's of christianity to guide you? all i am trying to say is don't always look at things from a christian standpoints.. i am a christian but i look at this from all prospectives
I agree that it is wise to be able to look from another's perspective. It can help you relate and understand.

It seems that you judge others from a relative standpoint as opposed to an objective one. Does that sound right?

but one thing.. in the quran does it say you cannot have multiple wives....
because if not it isn't wrong to the muslim eyes but it is wrong to us only because we don't follow the rules or laws of islam.. although it is kind of odd that he took "turns" with his wives
The Old Testament allowed for many wives as well. So I don't think that is the problem so much as Muhammad clamining that Allah would send his wives to hell if they did not obey their husband again.

It just makes me think of a guy who says something like... "Oh, I just talked to God. And God said that you have to obey me. Hey! It's not up to me. It is just what God said. Sorry about that. Anyway, I need $20. You should probably hand it over so God doesn't send you to hell."

I feel sad for people that are taken advantage of because of their religious beliefs.
 
@ quath yes that does sound about right


The Old Testament allowed for many wives as well. So I don't think that is the problem so much as Muhammad clamining that Allah would send his wives to hell if they did not obey their husband again.

It just makes me think of a guy who says something like... "Oh, I just talked to God. And God said that you have to obey me. Hey! It's not up to me. It is just what God said. Sorry about that. Anyway, I need $20. You should probably hand it over so God doesn't send you to hell."

I feel sad for people that are taken advantage of because of their religious beliefs.
as i said to a christian.. and pretty much anyone who understands the concept of hell that sounds real messed up.. kind of like how the extremest muslims are using there religion to kill innocents
 
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