Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatise

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it. My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race." A christian, as I"ll try to point out from scripture can stop being Christ-like and therefore, no longer be a christian.

Enough talk, here's scripture....



Phil 3:8 I consider everything a loss compared to the superiority of the knowledge of the Anointed Jesus, my Lord. And because of him I’ve accepted the loss everything and consider it all a lot of garbage, so I can gain the Anointed One 9 and become one with him. This isn’t because of my own righteousness due to following the Law; it comes from faith in the Anointed One. It’s the type of righteousness that God gives for faith, 10 and this helps us to know [Jesus] and the power of his resurrection… and to share in his sufferings… and for me to resign myself to a death like his, 11 so I can somehow be found worthy of an out-resurrection from the dead.12 [I’m not saying] that I’ve made it yet or that I’m already perfect, just that I’m chasing after it… I’m trying to grab hold of that for which the Anointed Jesus grabbed hold of me! 13 Brothers, I don’t think of myself as having achieved it yet, but I am doing this one thing: [I’m] forgetting the things in the past and stretching out to reach for the things that are ahead… 14 I’m running toward the goal, the prize of the higher calling from God, through the Anointed Jesus. 15 So, may all of us who are mature think like this… and if your thinking is inclined any other way, God will reveal this to you.

1 Peter 1:5 The power of God is watching over you because of your faith in [this hope] of being saved, which is soon to be seen in the last days, 6 and in which you are rejoicing, although right now you’re undergoing many trials for a brief period. 7 This is happening so that the proof of your faith, which is much more valuable than gold that is refined and proven by fire, may be found to be a reason for praise, honor, and glory, during the revelation of Jesus the Anointed One.8 For, although you’ve never seen him, you’ve love him. And although you can’t see him, you believe in him and are rejoicing with an unspeakable and glorified joy, 9 as you carry off for yourselves the reward of this faith… the saving of your souls.
Hebrews 3:14, Mark 13:13, Romans 8, and the book of Revelation instructs its readers to remain faithful unto death and to endure till the end so that the salvation they seek can become a reality.

Paul says this in 2 Tim 4: For, I’m already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time for my release is almost here. 7 I’ve wrestled the fine match; I’ve finished the race; I’ve obeyed the faith; 8 and all that’s left for me now, is to lay down my golden crown, which the Lord (who isn’t over just me, but over everyone who loves the way in which he showed himself) will give back to me in that Day.

Salvation is a gift that is available only by the grace of God. One can only receive this precious gift through that individuals belief. Wrong word, a correct word would be faith or trust. By the grace of God man can be saved from the curse of sin DEATH provided they trust in the Lord and obey Him. Obedience is a part of faith, and faith is not merely mental acceptance, but rather a LIFESTYLE of committment to God. All who continue in a lifestyle of being committed to God will be saved, those who do not will not ever be saved.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

What was the Thread Question??
2 Cor. 4:2 has not always been about the Rev. 14:6 ETERNAL GOSPEL??? The Word of God!
Sorry for you, but I do not buy into rome's stuff.

And if one wanted authenic Truth, they might even get the Jewish Bible of just the O.T. from their two books. Surely these that are called Legalists would come closer to ETERNAL truth than what your posting was just pedaling in your [post]! Such as Christ's Words of Matt. 4:4 + the Inspiration of the Holy Spirits 'ETERNAL' WORDS of 2 Tim. 3:16 having a 'man made' mortal starting point in time??? (see Jer. 17:5's Warning Forum!)

OH' by the way, FORUM, that is for the Documented WORDS of Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 + the TWICE repeated as seen in Gen. 41:32.. for how to know ALL OF THE MASTER'S documentation!

No need to reply, for we have NOTHING IN COMMON. But, if you just must do so? You can have the last words.

--Elijah

As usual, Elijah, you are not making any sense with your random ramblings, maybe you should spend more time constucting a better post that is readily understandable by others...

I didn't say anything about "ROME", did I...

 

[littlelight]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

the fact that Jesus gives anther sin that wont be forgiven in John 15:1-ff is proof that when Jesus said ''every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven' that he was talking in a gerneral sence of the word 'every', and not in an absolute sense of the word 'every'! If John, Dick, Ron, and Jane decided that they all wated to go to the store together, and they left and went to the store. and you came into the room and asked me where did everyone go? You would be using the word 'every' in a very narrow sense; for it would be limited to the 4 people that were formaly here; but were now absent from the room. You certainly would not be asking me where every single man woman and child in the whole world went. and that is what you would be asking if you interpreted the word 'every' in an absolute sence of the word. so also Jesus was not using the word every in an absolute sence of the word, but rather was using it in a very geveral sence, as he was not giving a discorse on the different sin's that would cost you your salvation at that moment: and once again, Jesus later on teaches us that there are other things that will cost us are salvation.

Brother, I believe that we should take every word of God as literal unless it is obviousily hyperbole or clearly explained by other scripture as meaning something else. If we start chosing on our own what to throw out we are walking on thin ice. I suggest that you go back and evaluate your comments on what Jesus meant when He said every sin will be forgiven.

Jesus fulfilled the law and His righteousness is imputed to us. Since we have died to the law we are no longer under Moses' Law. This includes those sins that were so egregious there was no sacrifice was given for them. And God did not give the gentiles any law that was not contained in the Law of Moses. God does not lie. If we are no longer under the law He would not use an old law under a new name. Therefore; since all laws given to gentiles were contained in Moses' Law and all laws under Moses' Law do not apply to us the only law(s) we are held accountable for has to be new.

15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
NKJV
Rom 5:13
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
NKJV

Where there is no law there is no sin. Jesus said that every sin man committed would be forgiven but whoever committed BHS would not be forgiven.

There is now one law for the world: accept Jesus or die. After we accept Jesus we have to abide by the conditions of New Covenant. One condition of the New Covenant is to produce fruit or God will call us home. Another condition is that we must abide in Jesus. If we don't abide in Jesus we cannot produce any fruit and we lose our righteousness.
　
Matt 22:11-13
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
NKJV

In the above parable Jesus states that a man came to the wedding and was not in a wedding garment. The above man accepted the wedding invitation was given the wedding garment which he threw away. The only robe acceptable is a garment of righteousness washed in the Blood of Jesus. If your given one and throw it away you don't get another.

 

[beardedad]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

In John Jesus states that God sent his son that if we believe on him and we would have eternal life. He did not say anything about work, good deeds or anything else. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, all of them. Those you commit today, tomorrow and in the future. How can we lose something that was given to us? Something that we could not earn and are not worthy of. It is a gift freely given to all. All you have to do is ask him in.

 

[Alabaster]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

In John Jesus states that God sent his son that if we believe on him and we would have eternal life. He did not say anything about work, good deeds or anything else. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, all of them. Those you commit today, tomorrow and in the future. How can we lose something that was given to us? Something that we could not earn and are not worthy of. It is a gift freely given to all. All you have to do is ask him in.

The truth is spoken!

 

[littlelight]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

In John Jesus states that God sent his son that if we believe on him and we would have eternal life. He did not say anything about work, good deeds or anything else. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, all of them. Those you commit today, tomorrow and in the future. How can we lose something that was given to us? Something that we could not earn and are not worthy of. It is a gift freely given to all. All you have to do is ask him in.

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
NKJV

I know its not work and you know its not work , but Jesus said that this is the work that God accepts. And you can do no acceptable work untill you accept His Son. So our non work is considered work to God.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
NKJV

This post is the first time I mentioned work in defence of what I believe. I am not saying that God owes us anything. If belief is work then as your cited verses state we have to work. And we have to keep working (believing) untill we enter our rest. If you start reading at Heb 3:19 to Heb 4:11 the writer of Hebrews spells it out very clear.

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

Brother, I believe that we should take every word of God as literal unless it is obviousily hyperbole or clearly explained by other scripture as meaning something else. If we start chosing on our own what to throw out we are walking on thin ice. I suggest that you go back and evaluate your comments on what Jesus meant when He said every sin will be forgiven.

Jesus fulfilled the law and His righteousness is imputed to us. Since we have died to the law we are no longer under Moses' Law. This includes those sins that were so egregious there was no sacrifice was given for them. And God did not give the gentiles any law that was not contained in the Law of Moses. God does not lie. If we are no longer under the law He would not use an old law under a new name. Therefore; since all laws given to gentiles were contained in Moses' Law and all laws under Moses' Law do not apply to us the only law(s) we are held accountable for has to be new.

15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
NKJV
Rom 5:13
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
NKJV

Where there is no law there is no sin. Jesus said that every sin man committed would be forgiven but whoever committed BHS would not be forgiven.

There is now one law for the world: accept Jesus or die. After we accept Jesus we have to abide by the conditions of New Covenant. One condition of the New Covenant is to produce fruit or God will call us home. Another condition is that we must abide in Jesus. If we don't abide in Jesus we cannot produce any fruit and we lose our righteousness.
　
Matt 22:11-13
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
NKJV

In the above parable Jesus states that a man came to the wedding and was not in a wedding garment. The above man accepted the wedding invitation was given the wedding garment which he threw away. The only robe acceptable is a garment of righteousness washed in the Blood of Jesus. If your given one and throw it away you don't get another.

Brother if you would read what I posted you would see that the new testament clearly teaches that there are indeed other sins that God will not forgive! (aposticy, etc.) Hence jesus was talking in a very general sence, not an absolute sence.

By the way, and this is off topic, the moral laws of moses are not done away with! I will post a new tread to prove this as it is off topic on this thread.

have a great day

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
NKJV

I know its not work and you know its not work , but Jesus said that this is the work that God accepts. And you can do no acceptable work untill you accept His Son. So our non work is considered work to God.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
NKJV

This post is the first time I mentioned work in defence of what I believe. I am not saying that God owes us anything. If belief is work then as your cited verses state we have to work. And we have to keep working (believing) untill we enter our rest. If you start reading at Heb 3:19 to Heb 4:11 the writer of Hebrews spells it out very clear.

The work of believing in Jesus is to believe that He is God in flesh, that He is Lord of Lords, that He is the judge of the whole world, that He is the law giver, and then believing these things you submit your life too Him and obey Him in everything! It is to realize that He is YOUR personal LORD! and as such He tells you how to conduct your life here on earth, (i.e. dont steal, lie, commith adutery, etc.) and you submit yourself to His laws! This truly is the work of God!

have a great day

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

The truth is spoken!

Actually what you said is not true! I have posted what the true Gospel of God is. But I will repost it here: the following is the true gospel of God! You cannot be saved by any other than this!

The Absolute Essentials for Escaping Hell.

1.Must realize that God exists. (Heb 11:6 ‘But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.’ NKJV
2.Must believe that God is a personal God.
3.Cannot believe in a god who does not care about anything that is happening here on earth. Must believe that God is a personnel God who is actively involved in the affairs of men:
4.Must believe that God created all things. And that He created us. Must believe that because God has created us: He has the right to tell us how to live our lives.
5.Must believe that God has a personality: and that He can be offended, and that He can be pleased.
6.Must believe that God has a moral standard that He has given to mankind that He expects us to obey. Here are some of the moral laws that God has given too us:
A.Deut 5:11-21 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
B.12'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant…
C.16'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
D.You shall not murder.
E.You shall not commit adultery.
F.You shall not steal.
G.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
H.You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.' NKJV
7.Must understand that this moral standard is eternal. It existed before the Law of Moses came into existence. It was because of man’s refusal to walk in obedience to the moral laws of God that God destroyed the first world with a flood; He found only one man who was living according to His moral laws at that time and he thus spared him from this extermination. His name was Noah. And it was because of mans continued disobedience to this moral law that God instituted the animal sacrificial system for sin, and instituted the priesthood.
8.Must believe that God lives in heaven and has created Hell for the eternal punishment of all those who disobey Him. (both angels and men.)
9.Must believe that God has communicated His moral standards to us in the Holy Bible.
10.Must believe that the Bible is the only book that God has given to mankind that contains His covenant with man.
11.Must learn what the moral requirements are. (at least some of them.)
12.Must understand that they have not obeyed these moral laws.
13.Must understand that because they have violated these moral laws that God has condemned them to Hell.

Ps 9:17
7 The wicked shall be turned into hell, And all the nations that forget God. NKJV

Rev 21:7-8
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." NKJV

14.Must realize that they cannot save themselves from this horrible fate; that there are no amount of good works that they can do that will appease Gods wrath against them. Must realize that there is nothing apart from Gods plan of salvation that can save him from an eternity in a place of eternal, intense suffering; i.e. HELL.

Eph 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NKJ)

15.Must realize that God loves Him anyway, and has provided a way of escape from this horrible fate.
16.Must realize that God sent a part of Himself to earth and was incarnated in a male body that we know as Jesus Christ.
17.That Jesus came to teach us how to live our lives.

(continued)

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

18. That Jesus came to sacrifice His body on a cross in order to become a sacrifice for us; to have Gods wrath poured out on Him so that our crimes against God could be forgiven. For our disobedience to His will must be punished if God is to be just. The wages of our disobedience is death. (i.e. eternal separation from God in Hell.) And if Jesus had not sacrificed Himself for us: then we would all go to Hell. But because He sacrificed Himself on the cross; the penalty for our sins has been paid in full. And thus the door of salvation from Hell is opened up to us.
19. Must feel sorrow/grief (conviction) concerning their disobedience to the moral laws of God. (2 Cor 7:10 ‘For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.’ NKJV)
20. Must confess his sins; (i.e. specific acts of disobedience to Gods moral laws. As many as he is aware of at the moment.)
Ps 32:5 I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD," and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah (NKJ) Ps 38:18 For I will declare my iniquity; I will be in anguish over my sin. (NKJ)

Prov 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. (NKJ)

Mtt 3:6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. (NKJ)

Mk 1:5 And all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. (NKJ)

I Jn 1:9-10 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (NKJ)

To say that we confess our sin; without feeling a deep conviction concerning it; and being willing to turn from it; is no confession at all; but merely a profession. And if all we are doing is professing our sin's, the blood of Christ will not cleanse us (i.e. remove from us, and forgive us), of our sin's.)
1. Must make a commitment to being obedient to the moral laws of God from this moment forward. (e.g. they must ‘repent’, i.e. to stop being disobedient and become obedient to the will of God!

Isa 55:6-7 6 Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon. (NKJ)

Isa 1:16-18 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; seek justice, rebuke the oppressor; defend the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," says the LORD, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Lk 24:46-47 46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (NKJ)

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (NKJ) Repentance is the preparation of the heart to be cleansed by Christ's blood; to be water baptized; and to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

2. Must ask God to forgive them for violating His moral laws based upon the sacrifice that Jesus made upon the cross on their behalf.

Eph 1;7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace (NKJ)

Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. (NKJ)

Rom 3:22-26 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (NKJ)

Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Col 1:20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

2 Cor 5:18-19 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and the word of reconciliation has committed to us. NKJV)

(cont.)

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

3. Must ask Jesus to come into their Heart

Rev 3:20-21 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. NKJV

John 1:12-13 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV
1. Must surrender the rest of their life to serving Jesus/God in sincerity and truth, promising to learn the moral laws of God and become obedient to them. (Luke 14:25-33, Luke 13:22-30, Matt 10:34-39, etc)
2. Must believe that Jesus rose from the dead on the 3erd day after He was crucified.

1 Cor 15:12-19 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up -- if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. NKJV

3. They must believe with all their heart. (Acts 8:26-39 7).
4. Then they must be instructed about baptism; as baptism is an essential part of salvation.

I Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:15-16
5 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; NKJV

Rom 6:1-23 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col 2:12-13 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses
(continued)

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

1 Peter 3:21-22
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us – baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NKJV

1. They must be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (NKJ)

I Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. (NKJ)
Water = Water baptism.
Spirit = Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Blood = The Blood of Jesus Christ that was shed at the cross: This could be thought of as "baptism in the blood of Christ".

Titus 3:5-6 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, (NKJ) (note: "poured out" refer's to the baptism of the H.S., which was promised to be "poured out" on all flesh. (Joel 2:28-32, Acts 2:1-18))This passage implies that the baptism of the holy Spirit is the third part of salvation; and no one's salvation is complete without it. (i.e. since the day of Pentecost forward). This is why Paul's #1 concern when he meet new believer's in other cities was to ask if they had received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when they believed.

Acts 19:1-6 1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said to them, "Into what then wereyou baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. (NKJ) (note: this is one passage that proves that the baptism of the H.S. is separate from, and in addition to, what we receive when we believe in/on Jesus. (unless we receive it at the time we repent. (Acts 10:24-48, 19:2-6, Jn 20:22, Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4-5)) And because this was Paul's 1st concern when he first met believer's; we can be CERTAIN that every believer of the first century was baptized in the Holy Spirit, without exception! (from the day of Pentecost on). (also see Acts 2:37-39 where the Baptism is promised to all believer's). Hence when the New Testament writer's write about the H.S.; it is understood by them that the people they were writing to, were baptized in the H.S.. Hence, when Paul talk's about people being "sanctified by the H.S." (Rom 15:16 that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. (NKJ)

II Thes 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, (NKJ) etc.)

1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the LordJesus and by the Spirit of our God. (NKJ)) He is referring to the baptism. of the H.S. Thus the baptism. of the H. S. is an essential part of our salvation. 4. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is what baptizes us into the body of Christ;

I Cor 12:13 For byone Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (NKJ)

Eph 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV

2 Cor 1:21-23
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. NKJV

II Cor 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.(or “down payment†or “vested interest in our redemptionâ€) (NKJ)

The word ‘guarantee’ in the above passages means:

NT:728
arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'); of Hebrew origin [OT:6162]; a pledge, i.e. part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest:
KJV - earnest
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
(cont.)

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

If someone has not been baptized in the Holy Spirit; God has not yet shown vested interest in completing the salvation of that person. In the same way that if you went out and looked at a house. You decided that you liked that house. You told the realtor that you wanted to by the house. But you did not give the realtor a down payment for the house. By doing so you are showing that you are not dedicated to buying the house. But if you give the realtor a down payment; then you are making a guarantee to the realtor that you intend to finish the purchase of the house. In the same way God shows us that he is interested in “finishing the purchase†when He baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

Hence no one is a true Christian until he has been baptized. in the H.S.

5. Baptism. of H.S. is proof that we are God's son's;

Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" (NKJ)

6. The baptism of the H.S. is proof that God abide's in us, and we in God.

I Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. (NKJ)

7. Baptism of H.S. is God's acknowledgement that we have indeed truly repented, and that He has accepted us;

Acts 15:7-9 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (NKJ)

8. The baptism of the H.S. is promised to those who repent; and is received (in some case's), upon repentance;

Prov 1:23 (Turn at my rebuke; surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you. NKJ)

Jn 14:15-17 15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--17 "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. (NKJ)

Acts 2:37-39 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." (NKJ)

Acts 5:32 "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him." (NKJ

Acts 15:8-9 8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (NKJ)

Acts 10:44-48 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. (NKJ)

9. Baptism of Holy Spirit is given when we believe on/in Jesus, (provided that the convert is instructed concerning this truth and exercise’s faith to receive it, (Acts 19:1-6, 11:15-17, Gal 4:6, Jn 7:37-39)
(cont.)

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

So how doe's someone KNOW when he has been baptism in the H.S.? He will have at least one (maybe more) of the 9 manifestation's of the H.S. operating in and through him. Mk 16:16-18 16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." (NKJ) Cor 12:7-13 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (NKJ)

Well, by now it should be obvious that when Peter said in Acts 2:38 "...Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin's: and you SHALL (not 'maybe', or might!), receive the gift of the H.S." That he was giving us 3 essential's to salvation (i.e. from Pentecost on). There can be no doubt that the true Church of Jesus Christ operates in the manifestations of the Spirit today, just as the first century churche's did! For the Scripture say's:

Mk 16:17-18 17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." (NKJ) (note: these sign's follow those who BELIEVE; not just to first century believer's; nor just until the so called "cannon" was complete; but for those who believe throughout the centuries!)

John 14:12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. (NKJ) (once again; this promise is made to those who BELIEVE)!

Acts 2:37-39 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." (NKJ) (notice that the promise of the baptism of the H.S. is promised to "as many as the Lord our God will call." And no one come's to God unless he call's them. Hence this promise is for every believer today)!

I Cor 2:4-5 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (NKJ)

I Cor 4:19-20 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will know, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. (NKJ) (notice that the Kingdom of God is not in word only; but in power!

The word Power = Strong's # 1411 dunamis (doo'-nam-is); from 1410; force (literally or figuratively); specially, miraculous power (usually by implication, a miracle itself): KJV-- ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work. (DIC)

This is the same word used by Jesus in Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." (NKJ)

In Acts 2:1-38 we see the beginning of what type of power was meant by Jesus. And it is this type of power that those who are in the Kingdom of God have. So it stand's to reason that if you and the church you are attending do not have this power operating in you/it. You/it have not yet entered the Kingdom of God! So then: all of the churche's that don't have God's power being manifested in there service's; are filled with non-Christians. For God's Kingdom is not in word only; but in power! And those who are in God's Kingdom, have God's power! Therefore if you do not have God's power; be zealous and repent; asking God to baptize you in the Holy Spirit. And Keep on asking until you get it!

(continued)

 

[gideon3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

Lk 11:5-13 5 And He said to them, "Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, `Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 `for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him'; 7 "and he will answer from within and say, `Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you'? 8 "I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs. 9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 "If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 "Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (NKJ)

1 Cor 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. (NKJ)

1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. (NKJ)

1. They must eat Jesus body and drink His blood by having communion.

John 6:53-58

53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven -- not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever." NKJV

Luke 22:19-21

19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. NKJV

The above is the true gospel and no one can be saved without it!


Have a great day.

 

[theophilus3213]

Re: Bible clearly teaches that a true believer can forfiet their salvation! a treatis

You have done your homework gideon! I agree with you; true believers can indeed forfiet their salvation! We can only be certain that we are saved if we are walking in perfect obediance to the will of God! (1 John, whole book) People need to learn that God was serious when He said that we are to 'work out our own salvation with fear and trembling!"

shaloam