[_ Old Earth _] Bible scientific foreknowledge

[kendemyer]

I read about an interesting topic. The topic of Bible scientific foreknowledge. I thought I would share it.

With that being said, Here is the article:

http://www.nwcreation.net/wiki/index.ph ... eknowledge

 

[Quath]

This is one of the better articles. There are a few poblems.

1. The Bible shows the universe as having a beginning, which agrees with modern scientific thought. But it ordered the events of creation wrong and missed important events according to the Big Bang. However, there was no water for Earth to be formless over. Light appeared before the water did. So this is taking one very small part of a story and saying it is right when the rest of it is completely contrary.

2. It stretches definitions. For example, "great mountain burning with fire" is called an asteroid. So we are to believe that this was not a mountain but a rock from outer space, even though the book does not say that. Forthermore, the next line says that the sea will turn to blood. Are we to assume this is blood or do we say that this is mud that looks like blood? Or some algea that grows from it? When you play with symbolism, you can go pretty far in whatever direction you like.

3. Secuar historians sees the Bible written way after Moses was suppose to have died. So it should be compared to the science of that day, not the day it says it was written.

4. One link for where science and the Bible dissgree is at Science, Truth, and the Church. I don't agree with every item listed like the one where pi = 3 because of roundoff error. However, I do think this would have been a good place where Godly knowledge could have shown an irrational number before the Greeks came up with the idea.

Quath

 

[unred typo]

This is one of the better articles. There are a few poblems.



4. One link for where science and the Bible dissgree is at Science, Truth, and the Church. I don't agree with every item listed like the one where pi = 3 because of roundoff error. However, I do think this would have been a good place where Godly knowledge could have shown an irrational number before the Greeks came up with the idea.

Quath

I just did the math on this one for Jimbob. There is nothing at all wrong with the math in 1 Kings 7:23 and no one had to round pi down to 3.
The value of pi used is 3.14159 and the measurements work out fine.
The measurement of the widest point from outside rim to outside rim was 10 cubits. The bowl was a handbreadth thick, about 4 inches of solid brass. If you measure the inside of the bowl from inside the rim to the other side, it would be 10 cubits minus two handbreadths. Figuring 18 inches for a cubit, that would be 180 inches minus 8 inches = 172 inches. 172 x 3.14159 = 540.35348 inches or 30.019637 cubits. Unless you want to argue over .019637 of an inch, we can round that down, so the circumference of the inside of the bowl was 30 cubits. Perfect. The inside of the bowl would be the measurement that you would want, since the outside was decorated with ornamental buds. A simple misunderstanding. The measure for the calculation was the inside diameter not the outside.

 

[cubedbee]

The inside of the bowl would be the measurement that you would want, since the outside was decorated with ornamental buds.

How exactly does one measure the inside circumference of a bowl? I mean, practically speaking, the way you measure a bowl is to have someone hold one end of a string, wrap the string around the bowl tight, and mark where the end meets, and then straighten out that string and measure it. That doesn't work easily on the inside though because there's nothign to wrap the string around. You'd need to find something to keep the string stuck to the wall. I'd use tape, but wonder what the ancient Israelites used?

Also, keep in mind that the bowl is 5 cubits, or 7.5 feet, tall. So, I wouldn't even be able to lean over and tape the string to the rim to measure the inside circumference, I would have to get inside the bowl and do the measuring.

It's hard to believe that despite all these difficulties, the inside circumference would be the desired measurement, just because of some decorations on the outside? I mean, does it say that the decorations covered all 7.5 feet of the outside wall making it impossible to wrap a string around it? Not saying you're necessarily wrong, it just sounds like a contrived, and not very realistic, solution.

 

[unred typo]

How exactly does one measure the inside circumference of a bowl?

Ummm...??? by doing the math? Isn't that the whole point??? :roll:

 

[cubedbee]

How exactly does one measure the inside circumference of a bowl?

Ummm...??? by doing the math? Isn't that the whole point??? :roll:

No, one calculates the circumference by doing math. Calculations are a shortcut for doing actual measurements. The verse says "and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." Doesn't say this was a theoretical calculated circumference, says it was measured. Like I said, you measure things by wrapping a rope around it, or "compassing it round about". So, how did they get the rope to stick on the inside of the bowl? You really think that's how they measured it, or do you think they measured on the outside like the verse itself and common sense indicate?

 

[unred typo]

No, one calculates the circumference by doing math. Calculations are a shortcut for doing actual measurements. The verse says "and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." Doesn't say this was a theoretical calculated circumference, says it was measured. Like I said, you measure things by wrapping a rope around it, or "compassing it round about". So, how did they get the rope to stick on the inside of the bowl? You really think that's how they measured it, or do you think they measured on the outside like the verse itself and common sense indicate?

OK, I see what you‘re saying. My duh. I’m actually glad to see that there is some thought going into this. A little more is needed. We love that. :wink:

On the surface, it makes sense that one would measure the outside, not the inside if you were doing it with a line. Now let’s go back to the process of making the ‘sea’.

1Ki 7:46 In the plain of Jordan did the king cast them, in the clay ground between Succoth and Zarthan.

From my primary days of making Mom’s lovely hand formed clay vase, I recall using an upside down bowl to lay the clay over and skillfully squish it on to take the very artistic form that amazed and delighted her. If I had been a brass worker making the form for a very large ornate bowl, 10 cubits across on the outside, I would subtract the width of the sides (2 handbreadths) and make my upside down bowl form. To measure the circumference of the inside of the brass bowl then, I would only have to slip a line around the outside of the form. This measurement would be essential for figuring the amount of brass I would need to make it a handbreadth thick.

p.s. Because we know the value of pi, we can do the math and see that the Bible, once again, is accurate. A bowl 10 cubits or 180†O.D., 4†thick ( a handbreadth) , 172†I.D. has an inside circumference of 540 inches or 30 cubits.