[_ Old Earth _] Biblical evidence before Science knew?

[Caleb]

Just curious if a discussion has been brought up before about the many different issues the Bible has speaking of things known because of the Bible long before Science knew about them?

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

That kind of thing has come up before. It is usually along the lines of "well in the bible God said he spread the heavens out therefore they knew about the accelerating expansion of the universie 5000 years ago", or "the hebrews ritually washed their hands before handling food therefore these bronze age nomadic people knew all about epidemiology, microbiology and pathogenic microbes".

However these brilliant, accurate and detailed scientific insights are usually retrospective. I have yet to seen where a modern scientific discovery has been made because of biblical scripture nor have I ever seen scripture cited as a reference in a scientific publication.

 

[Caleb]

I was thinking more on the terms of basics, such things as , When Jonah mentions Mountains below the ocean, then science confirmed it.
Or when the Bible mentions the "circle of the earth", in a time when people thought it was flat, type things.

Thanks for letting me know what might be coming though.

 

[jwu]

Well, any seafaring civilization back then could know that there are "mountains" on the ground of oceans. All it takes for that is to find a location of shallow water with deeper water around, and you have a mountain.

And things like "circle of the earth" actually is why many people believed the earth to be flat in first instance - circles are clearly not spheres, but rather disk-like.

 

[Caleb]

Well that is what I'm running into, for example, people say seafaring people knew, or even it was common knowledge, but yet there is nothing written that they knew. OR at least I haven't found anything.

And actually the "circle of the earth" mentioned in Isaiah, the word used is the one used for "sphere" and "circle" both.

And none has commented on the numbering of the stars.

 

[jwu]

And actually the "circle of the earth" mentioned in Isaiah, the word used is the one used for "sphere" and "circle" both.

That's new to me...can i read up on that somewhere? And do you have some links about that numbering stars thing as well?

 

[Caleb]

Concordances and Bible Dictionaries are the only thing I have had to understand the words.

But here is a link that mentions people who in ancient times have put a number with the stars.
http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/bo ... rstars.htm

Look under Greek Literature.

I was curious as to wonder if the Bible made these claims before science had confirmed them.

 

[jwu]

To be honest, i don't find that particularly impressive...have you seen the milky way on a very clear day at a place where there is no "light pollution"?
Calling stars countless is quite a fitting description, it doesn't take any knowledge that the people back then couldn't have had.

 

[Caleb]

I suppose the reason I find it so interesting is many of the intelligent cultures believed in a flat earth, and had actually counted or at least tried counting the stars, all the while the answers were within the scriptures.
And later when technology permitted it showed the Bible to be correct.

Which makes me think how much more will science actually confirm to be correct within scriptures?

 

[jwu]

Then again, most Christian cultures adhered to that worldview, as well as geocentrism.

In that background it's rather a situation of not clearly contradicting, as the Bible didn't really explicitly state so - if the word for circle in hebrew also can mean sphere, then this is not any more clear as a statement than "it's raining outside or it is not raining outside" in regards to the question if the earth is flat or not.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Actually, according to science stars are not countless (but there are a heck of a lot). There are a finite number of stars in the universe at any given time, and it is thoeretically possible to estimate the number.

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~gmackie/billions.html

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/07/22/stars.survey/

Ever wanted to wish upon a star? Well, you have 70,000 million million million to choose from.

That's the total number of stars in the known universe, according to a study by Australian astronomers.

It's also about 10 times as many stars as grains of sand on all the world's beaches and deserts.

The figure -- 7 followed by 22 zeros or, more accurately, 70 sextillion -- was calculated by a team of stargazers based at the Australian National University.

Like I said, a heck of a lot of stars. But not "countless" according to science.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

A strong argument could be made that the authors of the bible thought the world was flat, immobile and the center of the universe from these verses

Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth.
- Hebrews 1:10

The sun, moon, and stars were created after the "foundation of the earth" was laid.
(Gen. 1:9-18)

Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
- Proverbs 30:4

He established the earth upon its foundations, so that it will not totter, forever and ever.
- Psalm 104:5

The world is firmly established, it will not be moved.
- Psalm 93:1 & 1 Chronicles 16:30

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth??Who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof?
- Job 38:4-6

For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he set the world on them.
- 1 Samuel 2:8

It is I who have firmly set its pillars.
- Psalm 75:3

Who stretched out the heavens...and established the world.
- Jeremiah 10:12

The only time the Bible depicts the earth as moving is during an earthquake:

The earth quaked, the foundations of heaven were trembling.
- 2 Samuel 22:8

The earth quakes, the heavens tremble.
- Joel 2:10

I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place.
- Isaiah 13:13

There was a great earthquake...and the stars of the sky fell...as if shaken from a tree.
- Rev. 6:12,13

 

[Caleb]

I really doubt if science can number all the stars, they might be able to make assumptions, like in some of their other theories.
But if there were things in the Bible like "circle of the earth" and a verse like in Job, that God "hangeth the earth upon nothing."
One could tell the difference between the figurative and symbolic language, and the literal? Especailly after technology has confirmed it.
For instance, Job said, "and the pillars thereof tremble." then
Job said God "hangeth the earth upon nothing".
Although theologians could explain it in detail, yet it seems easy to see the difference between the literal and symbolic.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

In the same way that Adam and Eve and Noah are symbolic and not literal.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

The anceint Hebrews lived a very outdoors existance and thier lives were dependant upon things like the weather. There is no doubt they were keen observers of nature, and probably had some very good insights into the workings of the world. But then again the same thing could be said for any other group of people living off the land - Australian aborigines, North American natives, Cro Magnon, Kalihari bushemen.....

 

[peace4all]

In the same way that Adam and Eve and Noah are symbolic and not literal.

Wait. 1) are you christian?
2) was this sarcastic?

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Yes I am a Christian. I believe that Adam and Eve and Noah are not literal people. Apparently, I am not alone

elief in creation science seems to be largely a U.S. phenomenon. A British survey of 103 Roman Catholic priests, Anglican bishops and Protestant ministers/pastors showed that:
bullet 97% do not believe the world was created in six days.
bullet 80% do not believe in the existence of Adam and Eve.

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm

 

[peace4all]

If only there were more like you.


I am much more inclined to believe that, since a majority of the bible is not literal, but more or less stories about the way people should act etc, that these things never occured.

The US, although I hate to say it, Seems to be a backwards nation. lol.

People say I hate all christians, and I hate america.. But although I still will disagree with you on alot of things, You definately gain alot of respect when you atleast use your noggin

 

[reznwerks]

corners

I was thinking more on the terms of basics, such things as , When Jonah mentions Mountains below the ocean, then science confirmed it.
Or when the Bible mentions the "circle of the earth", in a time when people thought it was flat, type things.

Thanks for letting me know what might be coming though.

What about when the bible refers to the "four corners" of the earth implying that it is flat or that the earth rests on pillars? No the bible is not a science book nor a textbook. Other notable errors include rabbits eating their cud, the creation of two great lights (sun and moon) , separating the reality of the sun and stars, etc etc. The reality is that the cosmos are still evolving and stars are still being created. So either God is still working or the bible is wrong and God never rested on the seventh day.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Two points:

1. Popular opinion doesn't mean anything. The Bible states that Adam and Eve were literal people, and Jesus refered to them as literal people.

2. Anybody who watches the moon for a month knows that the earth is round and not a flat circle.