Biblical Separation

[JM]

Quote:
XIII. Separation
We believe that all Christians are first to be separated wholly unto the Lord, and as a necessary result, they must be:

1) Separated from worldly and sinful practices. They are to be holy, even as He is holy, and this desired behavior will always be diametrically opposed to the course of this present age. 1 Peter 1: 13-16; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Romans 12:1-2; 1 John 2:15-17.

2) Separated from apostasy and unbelief. A believer must not be "unequally yoked together with unbelievers," thereby being identified with unbelief by association, whether in ministry, worship, or by joint religious activities. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; 1 Timothy 6:3-5; 2 Timothy 2:19-22; 3:1-5; Amos 3:3.

3) Separated from disobedient brethren and doctrinal compromise with respect to all ministry and service. A believer is identified with the doctrinal positions and practices of those he is in fellowship with, both before God and man. Separation from those who are not walking according to truth deters the leavening effect of compromise, and gives a faithful warning to the erring brother. Romans 16: 17; 2 Thessalonians 3:6,14-15; 2 John 10-11; Galatians 2:9-11; 1 Corinthians 15:33.
http://www.biblebelievers.net/Doctrine/kjcdoctr.htm

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

what is the definition you are using of seperation? is it total exclusion? are there provisions for association? what is seperated mean?

 

[JM]

It was given as an example, to get the ball rolling, at what point do we separate? Add you own.

 

[starbyfar]

Separated from disobedient brethren and doctrinal compromise with respect to all ministry and service. A believer is identified with the doctrinal positions and practices of those he is in fellowship with, both before God and man. Separation from those who are not walking according to truth deters the leavening effect of compromise, and gives a faithful warning to the erring brother.

Then how do you suppose we preach the good news to them? Christ kept company with sinners and unbelievers. Didn't he eat with them? Luke 15. Have you ever noticed the context in which Jesus narrates the story?

When Jesus tells the story he is eating with “sinners and tax-collectors†and it is actually a response to the Pharisees and Scribes who look on in disgust that Jesus is eating with such notorious and irreligious people. The irony is then sharpened all the more with this context in mind, for Jesus tells the story of a father who ends up throwing a banquet for a sinner to eat with him! The message of course, is that Jesus is like the loving father, welcoming home wayward sinners. We are supposed to be the light of the world.. living our Christ centered lives IN the world, on this battleground as an example to the world so that they want the what we have!...not as a cult that lives in seclusion

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

Now, I actually agree with JM to some point here. I have been thinking. I would put it as love of one of two things... the person and the community. All sin affects the Church as a whole, and people who live openly in sin can be a stumbling block to others. You love the person so you try and save them. But if they refuse to change, love of the community kicks in at some point. Its actually an action of love to cast out the person, an act of love for the people in the community. So, I do believe in seperation at some point. However, they basically have to be unwilling to change. Otherwise I wouldnt want to withdraw the support.

 

[JM]

We have to be holy in all manner of our walk:
1 Peter 1:13-16 (King James Version)
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

We are not to be like [conformed] to the ways of the world.
Romans 12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Be careful to not get catch up in the world.
1 John 2:15-17 (King James Version)
15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

We are not to fellowship with unbelievers, I didn't say it, I'm not smart enough to make it up. Blame Paul.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (King James Version)
3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Amos 3:3 (King James Version)
3Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

We need to be aware of those teaching false doctrine and avoid them.
Romans 16:17 (King James Version)
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

With draw from some or all?
2 Thessalonians 3:6 (King James Version)
6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Do what? Have no company...
2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 (King James Version)
14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

We are not even to bid a false teacher God's speed. The next time a JW comes to the door, remember these words.
2 John
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Lay down with dogs...
1 Corinthians 15:33 (King James Version)
33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

 

[starbyfar]

We are not to fellowship with unbelievers, I didn't say it, I'm not smart enough to make it up. Blame Paul.
[quote:1d794]2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Isn' this pertaining to marriage?

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (King James Version)
3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

In this verse Paul was instructing Timothy to stay away from preachers that only wanted to preach for money or financial gain or those that simply wanted to cause problems within the church by arguing incessently.

Amos 3:3 (King James Version)
3Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

My NIV bible states this question, "Do two walk together unless they have a greed to do so?" And this verse is one of 7 rhetorical questions Amos is asking to show how events can be linked together. Not to explain that believers are to have nothing to do with unbelievers

We need to be aware of those teaching false doctrine and avoid them.
Romans 16:17 (King James Version)
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

This verse is explaining that we should be sure to always refer what we are taught by preachers in sermons to the actual text in our bibles to ensure that we aren't being fooled.

With draw from some or all?
2 Thessalonians 3:6 (King James Version)
6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

This verse pertains to believers in Thesselonica being lazy and not doing their share of work.. In the verses below Paul further explains himself and says when he and the apostles were there they did their fair share of work as to not burden the other believers.. i think you took this one wayout of context

Do what? Have no company...
2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 (King James Version)
14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Paul counseled the church to stop supporting financially and associating with those who persisted in their idleness.. Hunger and lonliness are good ways to make someone productive.. Paul wanted them to show tough love to their brother/sister... in other words.. these lazy believers in the church.

We are not even to bid a false teacher God's speed. The next time a JW comes to the door, remember these words.
2 John
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I don't disagree with you on this one.. but this isn't talking about fellowshipping.. this is about false teachers trying to preach their beliefs to you.


Lay down with dogs...
1 Corinthians 15:33 (King James Version)
33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.[/quote:1d794]




Hey JM,
I think you might've taken a lot of these verses out of context. You should read above and below each verse and maybe get a concordance to go along with your bible.

None of these verses prove that we are to seperate ourselves from unbelievers. [/b]

 

[JM]

The context is given in Isaiah 52:11, that's what Paul is quoting. I've taken the time to read a few commentaries on these passages and it doesn't apply to marriage.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

In this verse Paul was instructing Timothy to stay away from preachers that only wanted to preach for money or financial gain or those that simply wanted to cause problems within the church by arguing incessently.

Do you believe only ministers [following your logic] are to be holy? Are only ministers to have one wife? I believe this applies to all of us.

My NIV bible states this question, "Do two walk together unless they have a greed to do so?" And this verse is one of 7 rhetorical questions Amos is asking to show how events can be linked together. Not to explain that believers are to have nothing to do with unbelievers

Amos is about agreeing on God's word and what it means, again, I suched different commentary and that's the agreed meaning.

Romans 16:17
and avoid them  The fomentors of “divisions†here referred to are probably those who were unfriendly to the truths taught in this epistle, while those who caused “offenses†were probably those referred to in Rom_14:15 as haughtily disregarding the prejudices of the weak. The direction as to both is, first, to “mark†such, lest the evil should be done ere it was fully discovered; and next, to “avoid†them (compare 2Th_3:6, 2Th_3:14), so as neither to bear any responsibility for their procedure, nor seem to give them the least countenance. JFB
This also seems to be the standard view of the verse.

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15
Is about shunning those who do not do the Lords will.

I think you'll find that what you have written is out of context with Scripture, we must use Scripture to understand Scripture and what you advocate is joining together with a wordly Church that doesn't walk according the Scriptures. You may not accept my understanding of these passages and I'll say no more believing it will only entench your thinking.

Peace,

jm

 

[starbyfar]

No way JM, thats not what i'm advocating at all. I'm speaking only in terms of how and to what extent we interact with unbelievers. The poster of this thread, and yourself seemingly are using biblical verses to support the idea that we are to be totally seperate and away from unbelievers, aside from the occassional run in when we're beating them over the head with the bible.. and that is what I don't agree with. Having unbelievers causing problems within the church, or attending a worldly church that preaches worldly doctrine, well of course i'm against that.. but even still I wouldn't distance myself from people that attend that church.. I would do all I could to reach them, have bible studies, and hopefully clear up some of the fallacies they believe. why else are we here? to fellowship with other believers?? if most christians were never befriended or invlolved with other christians before they became believers, they probably wouldn't be believers today. its way more effective to go out and teach and relate to the people without compromising who you are, rather then waiting for the world to come to church.

 

[JM]

Ok star, I understand.