Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • We stand with Ukraine. Please consider supporting Ukraine through a qualified organization.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Biblical understanding

BB1956

Member
From
Thomaston Georgia
Gender
Male
Messages
111
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
You change Scriptures to line up with your own beliefs, this is not of God to do such things. It plainly and clearly teaches that every eye shall see Him, But because you don't agree with plain Scriptures, because it does not line up with your own belief, you change that verse to mean SPIRITUAL Eyes, something it does NOT say. You do error doing that thing.



The Spirits that were in those Romans are alive and well to this very day. They will indeed see Him, when He returns to the Earth to set up His Kingdom.



The world will not see the HUMAN MAN Jesus Christ any more. This is Truth.



True and the whole World will see it, even as Scriptures plainly teaches, but you don't believe plain Scriptures.

i have told you the Truth of all this, it is clear you reject it, in order to keep a hold of your own doctrine.

Here is the Truth of God. When Jesus Returns to the Earth He is bringing with Him the Holy City Jerusalem. Every eye in the entire World will see this happening, mostly on TV/Internet. Every person in the entire World will see this event taking place, then Jesus will go around the planet, collecting all the Sleeping Saints, they will rise first. Then Jesus and those Saints will go around the planet again, collecting the FEW living Saints.
You do error thinking the whole world will not see this event taking place.

However, even though the whole World will see this event, they will say it is a MOTHERSHIP, that has landed, and all nations gather up their armies to attack it, they will all die miserably on that day. Jesus in one fell swoop will have destroyed most every human which desired to KILL instead of Love.
God doesn't need flying ships or any contraption such as that. I will not reply to your comments any longer, the fact you believe these clouds were flying ships is proof you're deceived and are believing a lie. I know you think what you say to be the truth, but it's not, it's a deception, a lie.
 

wondering

Staff member
CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
22,344
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
God doesn't need flying ships or any contraption such as that. I will not reply to your comments any longer, the fact you believe these clouds were flying ships is proof you're deceived and are believing a lie. I know you think what you say to be the truth, but it's not, it's a deception, a lie.
DiscipleDave didn't say he believes they will be flying ships.
He said this is how IT WILL BE PERCEIVED.
Let's read and understand other persons.

I just truly dislike everyone that wants to teach everyone -
even when I agree with them.
Jesus gave a teaching ministry to specific persons, the Apostles,
not to everyone that believed in Him.
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
Don Adams

I was speaking about Augustine, not Mary.
How did Mary get into the discussion?
What did I say that upset you so much?

I disagree with Augustine on ar least 2 topics.
Would you care to discuss?
Sure go for it. Thanks
 

wondering

Staff member
CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
22,344
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Sure go for it. Thanks
Here it is in a nutshell.

1. His belief in predestination (not double predestination).
John Calvin's beliefs are based on Augustine. I think he mentions him 4,000 times in his writings. (hope I got the number right - but it was A LOT anyway).a

As I'm sure you must know, no other church father believed in predestination.
There's a reason it was LISTENED to from Augustine (my own belief)...
but it was NOT accepted by others.


2. The church always believed in concupiscense (I hate spelling that word) at birth.
It was called original sin.

Augustine changed the meaning.
He believed sin was IMPUTED to humans at birth.
This made baptism absolutely necessary and ASAP.
Sin is not imputed to us at birth, we are each responsible ONLY for our own sins....not Adam's sin.

Baptizing infants was for other reasons,,,not the reason Augustine theorized.


3. He was a gnostic believer before becoming Christian.
He brought those ideas along with him. He was a manecaen.
 

BB1956

Member
From
Thomaston Georgia
Gender
Male
Messages
111
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
DiscipleDave didn't say he believes they will be flying ships.
He said this is how IT WILL BE PERCEIVED.
Let's read and understand other persons.

I just truly dislike everyone that wants to teach everyone -
even when I agree with them.
Jesus gave a teaching ministry to specific persons, the Apostles,
not to everyone that believed in Him.
I said to DiscipleDave at post #115 "YHWH God sent an angel in a cloud as “his own personal messenger” to lead Israel out of Egypt and through the wilderness."
He responded at post #118 concerning what I said post #115, "These were UFO's. God only concealed them with clouds so as to humans, not being able to see them."
He was not saying people would perceived them to be UFO's. DiscipleDave said they were UFO's covered by clouds. I understand what he said wondering, it was very clear what he said.
 

wondering

Staff member
CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
22,344
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
I said to DiscipleDave at post #115 "YHWH God sent an angel in a cloud as “his own personal messenger” to lead Israel out of Egypt and through the wilderness."
He responded at post #118 concerning what I said post #115, "These were UFO's. God only concealed them with clouds so as to humans, not being able to see them."
He was not saying people would perceived them to be UFO's. DiscipleDave said they were UFO's covered by clouds. I understand what he said wondering, it was very clear what he said.
I went back and read 118...
I had seen this:
What do you think atheists will call the Holy City Jerusalem coming out of SPACE and landing on the Earth? UFO, and because of the mere size of it, they will most certainly call it the MOTHERSHIP. But the Saints of God will know it is the Holy City Jerusalem, which was foretold to come out of Heaven to the Earth.
I now saw what was written above too.
I also read post 119 which confirms actual UFO's.

I apologize.
I don't know why I got involved, this is not usual for me.
It just sounded so off and I remember what I highlighted above.
Sorry.
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
People and I will disagree what church is the true church that Jesus Christ is the foundation that it's built upon and doesn't teach error. I agree with scripture, I just don't agree how some people(churches) reason on the scriptures. So Matthew 28:19; Acts 1:8; Matthew 7:18 and all the other scriptures you have mentioned I agree with, but that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with how someone reasons on those scriptures or applies them.
Churches have been saying for centuries that we have souls and that at death these souls separate from our bodies and either go to heaven or a fiery hell, which is false and has always been false. The scriptures say we are souls, not that we have souls. So this destroys the immortality of the soul doctrine that so many believe in and that for many years been taught in their churches.The church saying we are to pray to Saints or to Mary, that's false and has been taught for centuries. So people telling me that the church doesn't teach error, while I certainly agree, most of the time I can see that what people are saying isn't in the scriptures. Does that mean the true church has errored, no. I just don't agree that their church is teaching scripture, so because of that, I will not agree that church is the true church.
The thing I have learned in scripture is it tells us that there will be weeds, meaning imitation Christians. It's reasonable that these weeds would establish there own religious organizations(Churches). Now although these weeds will have Satan as their ruler, that doesn't mean these weeds believe themselves to be weeds or to belong to Satan but instead they honestly believe they belong to Christ. These weeds will do everything that they do thinking they have done a sacred service to the true God. They will even imprison and kill the true servants of the true God, thinking they've done a sacred service to the true God, they will honestly believe the true servants of God are Satan's disciples, just like the Jews thought about Jesus Christ.
Scripture alone with private judgement equals 30,000 sects teaching error not the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 lead by the spirit Jn 16:13 and teaching & sanctifying all men unto salvation by the jurisdictional authority of Christ Matt 28:19-20
Thanks
 

wondering

Staff member
CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
22,344
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Scripture alone with private judgement equals 30,000 sects teaching error not the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 lead by the spirit Jn 16:13 and teaching & sanctifying all men unto salvation by the jurisdictional authority of Christ Matt 28:19-20
Thanks
One cannot deny that the outcome is as you've described.
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
Here it is in a nutshell.

1. His belief in predestination (not double predestination).
John Calvin's beliefs are based on Augustine. I think he mentions him 4,000 times in his writings. (hope I got the number right - but it was A LOT anyway).a

As I'm sure you must know, no other church father believed in predestination.
There's a reason it was LISTENED to from Augustine (my own belief)...
but it was NOT accepted by others.


2. The church always believed in concupiscense (I hate spelling that word) at birth.
It was called original sin.

Augustine changed the meaning.
He believed sin was IMPUTED to humans at birth.
This made baptism absolutely necessary and ASAP.
Sin is not imputed to us at birth, we are each responsible ONLY for our own sins....not Adam's sin.

Baptizing infants was for other reasons,,,not the reason Augustine theorized.


3. He was a gnostic believer before becoming Christian.
He brought those ideas along with him. He was a manecaen.
I’m not the best on original sin, but it’s really not so much a sin as an effect as I understand it, cos of the fall heaven was closed (veil in the temple showed heaven closed since the holy of holies representing heaven) and man is estranged from God being devoid of grace (the life of God) Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom till born again new creation of grace cos they old creation was ruined by the fall, hope this helps thanks
 

wondering

Staff member
CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
22,344
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
I’m not the best on original sin, but it’s really not so much a sin as an effect as I understand it, cos of the fall heaven was closed (veil in the temple showed heaven closed since the holy of holies representing heaven) and man is estranged from God being devoid of grace (the life of God) Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom till born again new creation of grace cos they old creation was ruined by the fall, hope this helps thanks
That's what I said:

Original sin is an effect...right.
But Augustine made it be a personal sin...
he said that babies are born dead in sin, in sin that is IMPUTED to them by Adam's fall.
It's important to understand the difference.

Anything else to add on Augustine?
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
That's what I said:

Original sin is an effect...right.
But Augustine made it be a personal sin...
he said that babies are born dead in sin, in sin that is IMPUTED to them by Adam's fall.
It's important to understand the difference.

Anything else to add on Augustine?
Nope thanks
 

DiscipleDave

Member
From
US Midwest
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
395
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
God doesn't need flying ships or any contraption such as that. I will not reply to your comments any longer, the fact you believe these clouds were flying ships is proof you're deceived and are believing a lie. I know you think what you say to be the truth, but it's not, it's a deception, a lie.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

As i plainly said, which you did not understand, is that Atheists and unbelievers will call the Holy City New Jerusalem, the Mothership, i Giant UFO. What? You think inhabitants of Heaven who do not believe in any God whatsoever, is going to think this 1,500 Squared City is from God? or will they most certainly believe it comes from Aliens.

i know what God told me, and i will continue to believe what God told me in conversations, and not what men THINK is the Truth.

I will not reply to your comments any longer

They did not believe the prophets in the past, do you think the last days generation will not do the same?
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

As i plainly said, which you did not understand, is that Atheists and unbelievers will call the Holy City New Jerusalem, the Mothership, i Giant UFO. What? You think inhabitants of Heaven who do not believe in any God whatsoever, is going to think this 1,500 Squared City is from God? or will they most certainly believe it comes from Aliens.

i know what God told me, and i will continue to believe what God told me in conversations, and not what men THINK is the Truth.



They did not believe the prophets in the past, do you think the last days generation will not do the same?
The bride of Christ the new Jerusalem came 2000 yrs ago it is the new covenant church
Thanks
 

DiscipleDave

Member
From
US Midwest
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
395
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
The bride of Christ the new Jerusalem came 2000 yrs ago it is the new covenant church
Thanks

This is Contrary to the Word of God, therefore is NOT Truth. Have you not read Revelation 21 and 22. NONE of those things has happened yet, and they are a plain description of the Holy City Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. And Revelation plainly and clearly describes the 12 floors of this NEW CITY that comes down out of Heaven to the Earth.

Why is it so difficult for this last days generation to believe plain Scriptures? Oh, i forgot who is the god of this world right now, satan.
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
This is Contrary to the Word of God, therefore is NOT Truth. Have you not read Revelation 21 and 22. NONE of those things has happened yet, and they are a plain description of the Holy City Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. And Revelation plainly and clearly describes the 12 floors of this NEW CITY that comes down out of Heaven to the Earth.

Why is it so difficult for this last days generation to believe plain Scriptures? Oh, i forgot who is the god of this world right now, satan.
Gal 4:26? Thanks
 

DiscipleDave

Member
From
US Midwest
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
395
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
DiscipleDave said:
This is Contrary to the Word of God, therefore is NOT Truth. Have you not read Revelation 21 and 22. NONE of those things has happened yet, and they are a plain description of the Holy City Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. And Revelation plainly and clearly describes the 12 floors of this NEW CITY that comes down out of Heaven to the Earth.

Why is it so difficult for this last days generation to believe plain Scriptures? Oh, i forgot who is the god of this world right now, satan.


Really? What happened to the days when you were having a discussion about a particular topic, that people would give relevant verses relating to the topic that is being discussed? Miss those days i do.

Let us see if Galation 4:26 has anything to do with the Holy City Jerusalem that is coming to the Earth according to Rev 21 and 22.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an ALLEGORY: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Because we are all of Abrahams seed)

Absolutely NOTHING to do with the Holy City Jerusalem coming down from Heaven, when Jesus Returns at the 7th Trumpet sounding, IN THE FUTURE.


Joh_14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you (HOLY CITY JERUSALEM). And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (RAPTURE, and He will be in the Holy City Jerusalem).

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (HOLY CITY JERUSALEM)

This City, has NOT came down to EARTH yet, you do error believing that false doctrine.
 

wondering

Staff member
CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
22,344
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Really? What happened to the days when you were having a discussion about a particular topic, that people would give relevant verses relating to the topic that is being discussed? Miss those days i do.

Let us see if Galation 4:26 has anything to do with the Holy City Jerusalem that is coming to the Earth according to Rev 21 and 22.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an ALLEGORY: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Because we are all of Abrahams seed)

Absolutely NOTHING to do with the Holy City Jerusalem coming down from Heaven, when Jesus Returns at the 7th Trumpet sounding, IN THE FUTURE.


Joh_14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you (HOLY CITY JERUSALEM). And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (RAPTURE, and He will be in the Holy City Jerusalem).

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (HOLY CITY JERUSALEM)

This City, has NOT came down to EARTH yet, you do error believing that false doctrine.
Isn't the NJ the new way earth will be AFTER the end of the world when heaven will be established on earth?
 

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,058
Joined
Dec 2, 2022
Really? What happened to the days when you were having a discussion about a particular topic, that people would give relevant verses relating to the topic that is being discussed? Miss those days i do.

Let us see if Galation 4:26 has anything to do with the Holy City Jerusalem that is coming to the Earth according to Rev 21 and 22.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an ALLEGORY: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Because we are all of Abrahams seed)

Absolutely NOTHING to do with the Holy City Jerusalem coming down from Heaven, when Jesus Returns at the 7th Trumpet sounding, IN THE FUTURE.


Joh_14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you (HOLY CITY JERUSALEM). And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (RAPTURE, and He will be in the Holy City Jerusalem).

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (HOLY CITY JERUSALEM)

This City, has NOT came down to EARTH yet, you do error believing that false doctrine.
Rapture is a 19th century novelty
Christ said behold I make all things new
Christ replaced David as king
The church replaced israel
The new Christian covenant replaced the mosaic covenant
New heaven & new earth new Jerusalem are spiritual realities
Thanks
 

jaybo

2023 Supporter
From
Santa Fe NM
Gender
Male
Messages
3,239
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
DiscipleDave didn't say he believes they will be flying ships.
He said this is how IT WILL BE PERCEIVED.
Let's read and understand other persons.

I just truly dislike everyone that wants to teach everyone -
even when I agree with them.
Jesus gave a teaching ministry to specific persons, the Apostles,
not to everyone that believed in Him.
There is a difference between discussion and teaching. The teaching ministry applies to those who hold formal positions within the church. It doesn't apply to people giving their opinions on various subjects.
 
Top