Biblical understanding

[DiscipleDave]

Rapture is a 19th century novelty

Mat 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the EARTH mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the 7th Trumpet), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This HAS NOT YET HAPPENED. Not in the Past, not today, but will happen.

1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (NOT been done yet) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the (7th) trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

AT NO time in all of History has the living been taken up to the clouds to meet Jesus, this is something that will be done in the FUTURE. Hello, we call it the Rapture. The event where Jesus Gathers up ALL His Saints from off the entire planet Earth. NOT HAPPENED YET.

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (This has NOT yet happened)

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Is Jesus reigning on the Earth RIGHT NOW, forever and ever? NO, he is not, but will at the 7th Trumpet sounding the last Trumpet sounding:

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection (the Rapture): on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When Jesus gets here on Earth at the 7th Trumpet sounding, He Raptures up His Church and then He and we Saints will reign with Him ON EARTH, this has not yet happened.

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (This will happen in the Future)

1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (7th Trumpet sounding): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (NOT HAPPENED YET)

Just because YOU say the Rapture is a 19th Century novelty, does not make what you say Truth.

Christ said behold I make all things new

Jesus has NOT made all things New yet. Scriptures confirms:

Rev 21:1-2 And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea (Oceans). And I John saw the holy CITY, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3...... 4.. .... .5 ....... 6...... 7 ..... 8....... 9.......10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a WALL great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (The rest of the chapter give detailed description of dimensions, and material each floor is built with)

Anybody who Can't see this is a physical Giant Building, has to be 1 Cor 14:38 through and through.

Christ replaced David as king

Christ puts David back on the Thone in the Future.

The church replaced israel

Know you not your lineage can be traced back to one of the twelve tribes of Israel. You may not know, but God does know. Know you not that the 144,000 chosen of God to repopulate the Earth during the 1,000 year Reign of Christ ON EARTH are 12,000 from each tribe. Know you not that the Holy City is divided by the twelve Tribes? Know you not that God makes a full end of all nations except Israel.(Jeremiah 30:11 and 46:28)
So you are incorrect in assuming that Israel is REPLACED, they are NOT replaced, but will endure. All nations will be put to an end by Jesus, but Israel will endure.

The new Christian covenant replaced the mosaic covenant

This is Truth

New heaven & new earth new Jerusalem are spiritual realities

Says your thinking. NOT what Scriptures actually teaches.

Thanks

Thanks to you as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is a picture of what is going to happen:

http://discipledave.com/Images/Timeline.jpg

I did read it all.
The problem is that I never studied eschatology and know nothing about it.

I only asked you about the NJ, better if you had just answered yes or no.

But thanks.

 

[donadams]

Mat 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the EARTH mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the 7th Trumpet), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This HAS NOT YET HAPPENED. Not in the Past, not today, but will happen.

1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (NOT been done yet) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the (7th) trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

AT NO time in all of History has the living been taken up to the clouds to meet Jesus, this is something that will be done in the FUTURE. Hello, we call it the Rapture. The event where Jesus Gathers up ALL His Saints from off the entire planet Earth. NOT HAPPENED YET.

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (This has NOT yet happened)

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Is Jesus reigning on the Earth RIGHT NOW, forever and ever? NO, he is not, but will at the 7th Trumpet sounding the last Trumpet sounding:

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection (the Rapture): on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
When Jesus gets here on Earth at the 7th Trumpet sounding, He Raptures up His Church and then He and we Saints will reign with Him ON EARTH, this has not yet happened.

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (This will happen in the Future)

1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (7th Trumpet sounding): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (NOT HAPPENED YET)

Just because YOU say the Rapture is a 19th Century novelty, does not make what you say Truth.



Jesus has NOT made all things New yet. Scriptures confirms:

Rev 21:1-2 And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea (Oceans). And I John saw the holy CITY, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3...... 4.. .... .5 ....... 6...... 7 ..... 8....... 9.......10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a WALL great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (The rest of the chapter give detailed description of dimensions, and material each floor is built with)

Anybody who Can't see this is a physical Giant Building, has to be 1 Cor 14:38 through and through.



Christ puts David back on the Thone in the Future.



Know you not your lineage can be traced back to one of the twelve tribes of Israel. You may not know, but God does know. Know you not that the 144,000 chosen of God to repopulate the Earth during the 1,000 year Reign of Christ ON EARTH are 12,000 from each tribe. Know you not that the Holy City is divided by the twelve Tribes? Know you not that God makes a full end of all nations except Israel.(Jeremiah 30:11 and 46:28)
So you are incorrect in assuming that Israel is REPLACED, they are NOT replaced, but will endure. All nations will be put to an end by Jesus, but Israel will endure.



This is Truth



Says your thinking. NOT what Scriptures actually teaches.



Thanks to you as well.

Second coming / end of the world / judgment day

Are you pre trib?

 

[donadams]

Mary is the mystical city of God!

Daughter of Zion!

Proto-type of the holy church the new Jerusalem!

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said:
Here is a picture of what is going to happen:

http://discipledave.com/Images/Timeline.jpg

I did read it all.

You read the Picture???

The problem is that I never studied eschatology and know nothing about it.

That is not a problem, i never studied eschatology either, nor do i know what that even means, i think it has something to do with end times though. When i can get the answers from God Himself, why would i study or seek what Humans say and teach about what God has already told me. Pass.

I only asked you about the NJ, better if you had just answered yes or no.

But thanks.

Did you ask me a question about NJ that was a Yes or No question, i will now scroll and see if what you asked was a yes or no question, because it seems to me, if it were a yes or no answer, i would have said yes or no. Let me go find what you asked and see:

Post #137:

Isn't the NJ the new way earth will be AFTER the end of the world when heaven will be established on earth?

And i answered this question in Post # 140 Which is at the very top of this post, directing you to the PICTURE.
i can see and understand how this would appear to be a yes or no answer, but it is way more complicated then that. And the Picture answers the questions perfectly. However i also understand, because i have been told so, that some people don't understand the picture at all. And i get that too.
For example the World will Never actually end. The World as we know it today, will end, but the Earth abideth forever. God will indeed create a New Earth, and a New Atmosphere (like that prior to the Flood). Just as we are a New Creation in Christ. Does not mean we are not the same person, or we are Born Again, does not mean we cease to exist. We merely CHANGE. The World will not end per say, but will utterly and altogether be CHANGED, for example After God gets done with the Earth, there will be seen nowhere on the planet any structure made by human hands. Oh and every human during these times will be saying and thinking "The World is ending"

Isn't the NJ the new way earth will be AFTER the end of the world when heaven will be established on earth?

Which Heaven are we referring too? There are three? The First Heaven is our atmosphere, the Third Heaven is where the Father dwells currently, but will one day be on Earth in the NJ.
But Yeah BOTH Heavens will be on Earth during the time the New Heaven and New Earth is being created on the planet, which will be prior to the 7th Trumpet sounding. Let me try to give you a chronological order of events to happen.

1) All 7 seals are opened.
2) 144,000 children are sealed and protected from what is about to happen:
3) All 6 Trumpets will be sounded, This the first part of the 7 year Tribulation Period, 3 1/2 years. This is when the Earth is being burned, because of the Sun exploding and parts of the Sun hitting the Earth, Earth is spinning faster, 24 hour days will then be 16 hour days, and will wobble in orbit causing continental plates to shift everywhere. Earthquakes, tsunamis, Hurricanes, Volcanoes, you name the natural disaster and it will be there during this time. Oceans are being depleted, leaving only salt and death. Then some seas remain.
4) The 7th Trumpet is sounded. Jesus Returns to the Earth in the Holy City Jerusalem, with the Father with Him in the Holy City. Jesus will go around the planet and all the Sleeping Saints will be Raised from their sleeping. Then on the very same day, Jesus and the Saints he just rose with Him, will go around the planet Rapturing up the Living Saints. We all go Inside the Holy City Jerusalem with the biggest Feast you can possibly imagine. While we Saints are all inside celebrating with Jesus. The 7 Angels are about to do their work upon all those who were NOT chosen to be Raptured.
5) 7 vials poured out upon the Earth. For the next 3 1/2 years, Everyone that was not Raptured, will perish. Save only the 144,000 that are protected by Angels of God to make it through the 7 year Tribulation Period without a burn mark on them, or even a scratch.
6) After the 7 year Tribulation Period is over, and we Saints are done celebrating for 3 1/2 years (feeling like only moments for us)
7) satan and all his are bound for 1,000 years, which is God the Father's Sabbath Day.
8) We Saints reign over the 144,000 for a thousand years, teaching them how to fish, build, grow gardens, get married etc. These will repopulate the Earth, which will be like the Garden of Eden on the whole planet (save a couple spots only).
9) After a thousand years is over, God's Sabbath DAY, satan and his are released, then they go around the whole Earth raising the dead (yeah like zombies) And he will gather up all of his to attack all of God's, and they will be after the Holy City Jerusalem. Because satan and his have God's word, IF they take it, they are free to go anywhere in the universe they so desire. So satan to this very day is recruiting SOLDIERS to be in his war against God, to take the Holy City Jerusalem from God.
10) satan Loses.
11) The Great White Throne Judgment. Where all those who were with satan will be judged each and every one of them.
12) They are cast into a place, that is absent of any attributes of God, lake of fire hell.

Give up everything in this life that is NOT of God, live a life for God NOW, not a life for yourself. Lose your life for God NOW, and gain an eternity in His Kingdom. This last days generation don't have a clue what they are throwing away, by being a soldier for satan, that is to say obeying him.

Which is better, living your life in selfishness, and pleasing your own self, for 90 years, then die, and end up in Hell for eternity,

OR

Giving up your life for a measly 90 years, and doing only those things that please God, and NOT yourself, then die, and end up in Heaven for all eternity.

Mat_10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat_16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.

What i teach is the Narrow path, woe to those who do not believe the things i teach. i am NOT saying this because i think highly of myself, i am saying this because it is the TRUTH. i teach those things God has told me, if i am lying, then let me burn in Hell fire for all eternity.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Second coming / end of the world / judgment day

Are you pre trib?

If what you believe contradicts even one verse in all of Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG.

Are there not verses which are contrary to Pretrib belief? Yes. That is why people believe in Postrib because of those very verses that contradict pretrib.

Are there not verses which are contrary to Postrib belief? Yes. That is why people believe in Pretrib because of those very verses that contradict postrib.

Here is the Truth of God. We are going to go through some of the Tribulation Period, but NOT all of it.
Midtrib is the least belief that is believed today, and yet is 100% TRUTH. Midtrib belief does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures.
The 7 year Tribulation period is like unto Israel and Egypt in the time of Moses. The Israelites were present in Egypt when the Wrath of God came down upon that country. Yet Israelites were not effected, even though very much present during it. And then when Israel was REMOVED from the Country, it is then God utterly destroyed the Egyptians.
Christians are going to go through 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period, but are not appointed for the wrath of the last 3 1/2 years that will utterly destroy unbelievers off the planet Earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

You read the Picture???

That looks like a "picture" to you?
LOL
I had to read it...
Let's settle on an image.

That is not a problem, i never studied eschatology either, nor do i know what that even means, i think it has something to do with end times though. When i can get the answers from God Himself, why would i study or seek what Humans say and teach about what God has already told me. Pass.

I do have my belief about the end time, but it's very simple ... my image would not be as complicated as yours. That must have taken a lot of work.

Did you ask me a question about NJ that was a Yes or No question, i will now scroll and see if what you asked was a yes or no question, because it seems to me, if it were a yes or no answer, i would have said yes or no. Let me go find what you asked and see:

Post #137:


And i answered this question in Post # 140 Which is at the very top of this post, directing you to the PICTURE.
i can see and understand how this would appear to be a yes or no answer, but it is way more complicated then that. And the Picture answers the questions perfectly.

OK. But it doesn't help me with such a complicated reply. I needed the reply suitable for a 6 year old.

However i also understand, because i have been told so, that some people don't understand the picture at all. And i get that too.

I understand it. I see what you did and really appreciate it. It's just way too much information for me.

For example the World will Never actually end. The World as we know it today, will end, but the Earth abideth forever. God will indeed create a New Earth, and a New Atmosphere (like that prior to the Flood). Just as we are a New Creation in Christ. Does not mean we are not the same person, or we are Born Again, does not mean we cease to exist. We merely CHANGE

Agreed.

. The World will not end per say, but will utterly and altogether be CHANGED, for example After God gets done with the Earth, there will be seen nowhere on the planet any structure made by human hands. Oh and every human during these times will be saying and thinking "The World is ending"

I don't grasp your last sentence but I agree with the rest.

Man has always thought the world would end in his generation.

Which Heaven are we referring too? There are three? The First Heaven is our atmosphere, the Third Heaven is where the Father dwells currently, but will one day be on Earth in the NJ.

I only know of one heaven...the one where God dwells,,, I guess it's the 3rd.

But Yeah BOTH Heavens will be on Earth during the time the New Heaven and New Earth is being created on the planet, which will be prior to the 7th Trumpet sounding. Let me try to give you a chronological order of events to happen.

1) All 7 seals are opened.
2) 144,000 children are sealed and protected from what is about to happen:
3) All 6 Trumpets will be sounded, This the first part of the 7 year Tribulation Period, 3 1/2 years. This is when the Earth is being burned, because of the Sun exploding and parts of the Sun hitting the Earth, Earth is spinning faster, 24 hour days will then be 16 hour days, and will wobble in orbit causing continental plates to shift everywhere. Earthquakes, tsunamis, Hurricanes, Volcanoes, you name the natural disaster and it will be there during this time. Oceans are being depleted, leaving only salt and death. Then some seas remain.
4) The 7th Trumpet is sounded. Jesus Returns to the Earth in the Holy City Jerusalem, with the Father with Him in the Holy City. Jesus will go around the planet and all the Sleeping Saints will be Raised from their sleeping.

Are you speaking of soul sleep?
Or do you believe we get our glorified bodies at this point?

Then on the very same day, Jesus and the Saints he just rose with Him, will go around the planet Rapturing up the Living Saints. We all go Inside the Holy City Jerusalem with the biggest Feast you can possibly imagine. While we Saints are all inside celebrating with Jesus. The 7 Angels are about to do their work upon all those who were NOT chosen to be Raptured.
5) 7 vials poured out upon the Earth. For the next 3 1/2 years, Everyone that was not Raptured, will perish. Save only the 144,000 that are protected by Angels of God to make it through the 7 year Tribulation Period without a burn mark on them, or even a scratch.
6) After the 7 year Tribulation Period is over, and we Saints are done celebrating for 3 1/2 years (feeling like only moments for us)
7) satan and all his are bound for 1,000 years, which is God the Father's Sabbath Day.
8) We Saints reign over the 144,000 for a thousand years, teaching them how to fish, build, grow gardens, get married etc. These will repopulate the Earth, which will be like the Garden of Eden on the whole planet (save a couple spots only).

Jesus said there will be no marriage in heaven.

How do you know what you've listed?

9) After a thousand years is over, God's Sabbath DAY, satan and his are released, then they go around the whole Earth raising the dead (yeah like zombies) And he will gather up all of his to attack all of God's, and they will be after the Holy City Jerusalem. Because satan and his have God's word, IF they take it, they are free to go anywhere in the universe they so desire. So satan to this very day is recruiting SOLDIERS to be in his war against God, to take the Holy City Jerusalem from God.
10) satan Loses.
11) The Great White Throne Judgment. Where all those who were with satan will be judged each and every one of them.
12) They are cast into a place, that is absent of any attributes of God, lake of fire hell.

Do you believe persons will also be destroyed in the lake of fire?

Give up everything in this life that is NOT of God, live a life for God NOW, not a life for yourself. Lose your life for God NOW, and gain an eternity in His Kingdom. This last days generation don't have a clue what they are throwing away, by being a soldier for satan, that is to say obeying him.

Which is better, living your life in selfishness, and pleasing your own self, for 90 years, then die, and end up in Hell for eternity,

OR

Giving up your life for a measly 90 years, and doing only those things that please God, and NOT yourself, then die, and end up in Heaven for all eternity.

Mat_10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat_16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.

What i teach is the Narrow path, woe to those who do not believe the things i teach. i am NOT saying this because i think highly of myself, i am saying this because it is the TRUTH. i teach those things God has told me, if i am lying, then let me burn in Hell fire for all eternity.

Matthew did come to mind.
And Jesus said to take the narrow road,,,the narrow gate. Not too many will find it.

 

[donadams]

If what you believe contradicts even one verse in all of Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG.

Are there not verses which are contrary to Pretrib belief? Yes. That is why people believe in Postrib because of those very verses that contradict pretrib.

Are there not verses which are contrary to Postrib belief? Yes. That is why people believe in Pretrib because of those very verses that contradict postrib.

Here is the Truth of God. We are going to go through some of the Tribulation Period, but NOT all of it.
Midtrib is the least belief that is believed today, and yet is 100% TRUTH. Midtrib belief does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures.
The 7 year Tribulation period is like unto Israel and Egypt in the time of Moses. The Israelites were present in Egypt when the Wrath of God came down upon that country. Yet Israelites were not effected, even though very much present during it. And then when Israel was REMOVED from the Country, it is then God utterly destroyed the Egyptians.
Christians are going to go through 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period, but are not appointed for the wrath of the last 3 1/2 years that will utterly destroy unbelievers off the planet Earth.

No one ever heard of a rapture till the 1800’s in the burned over district
Matt 24 says after the trib He sends his angels to gather the elect
Or second coming
Thanks