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Billy Graham statues???

Leave it to Gary to twist this in to a Catholic/Protestant issue. Gary, why would it be wrong to have a statue of Mary and not one of Billy Graham. Thanks for your response THIS TIME.
 
Roman Catholic pray in front of a statue... and to Mary!

As anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows....

The difference is that no Baptist PRAYS to Billy Graham.
However, Roman Catholics pray to Mary, contrary to anything in the Bible.

Get it yet?

:wink:
 
So you agree, that there is no prohibition against owning a statue of someone. Then why is your second commandment:

Abbreviated Protestant Ten Commandments:

You shall have no other gods but me.
You shall not make unto you any graven images
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your mother and father
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

What you are telling me is that the 2nd commandment is incorrectly stated and must be taken in context of worship (we don't agree that prayer is always worship but let's leave that aside for now). Therefore what you are implying is that the commandment belongs with the first and that us Catholics are using Mary statues as false gods. Thing is I don't pray to my Mary statue. Therefore praying to Mary should not be mixed up with this commanment. Once again proving that the command is missplaced as it's own command out of bias.

I have a statue in front of my house of Mary. I don't pray to it. Is that okay? Why don't baptists have more statues laying around if it is as you say and it is okay to have them if you don't pray to them (which we Catholics don't) ? Thanks again.
 
+JMJ+


The difference is that no Baptist PRAYS to Billy Graham.
Click to expand...


No one has ever said, "Mr. Graham, would you pray for me?", before?
 
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
+JMJ+


The difference is that no Baptist PRAYS to Billy Graham.
Click to expand...


No one has ever said, "Mr. Graham, would you for me?", before?
Click to expand...

Good point FSW, since pray means "to ask".
 
I believe thess has a point. A statue of Billy Graham is ridiculous.

I cannot believe that Billy Graham gives appoval of this.
 
So we can make a statue to say apollo or allah as long as we dont worship it? Or does any (en)graven images, mean pictures and writing also? Whats the context here? Do we now worship the Lincoln memorial for example or not?
 
Educating Thessalonian

Yes, please do ask Billy Graham to pray for you. However, unlike Roman Catholics, Baptists do not PRAY to Billy Graham.

Still confused Thessalonian?

Would you like to quote the chapter/verse where any Christian prayed to a departed Christian. Or do you have chapter/verse where a Christian prayed to Mary?

I will wait....

:)
 
Teaching thessalonian about the Bible

thessalonian said:
So you agree, that there is no prohibition against owning a statue of someone. Then why is your second commandment:

Abbreviated Protestant Ten Commandments:

You shall have no other gods but me.
You shall not make unto you any graven images
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your mother and father
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

What you are telling me is that the 2nd commandment is incorrectly stated and must be taken in context of worship (we don't agree that prayer is always worship but let's leave that aside for now). Therefore what you are implying is that the commandment belongs with the first and that us Catholics are using Mary statues as false gods. Thing is I don't pray to my Mary statue. Therefore praying to Mary should not be mixed up with this commanment. Once again proving that the command is missplaced as it's own command out of bias.

I have a statue in front of my house of Mary. I don't pray to it. Is that okay? Why don't baptists have more statues laying around if it is as you say and it is okay to have them if you don't pray to them (which we Catholics don't) ? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I think you are confused Thessalonian. All you need to do is read the Bible and it will become very clear to you. Do you find any verses in there which tell you to PRAY to Mary?

I will help you. Here are the same questions you asked.... answered with Scripture. -source-

Q. 45. Which is the first commandment?
A. The first commandment is, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7)

Q. 46. What is required in the first commandment?
A. The first commandment requireth us to know and acknowledge God to be the only true God, and our God; and to worship and glorify him accordingly. (1 Chronicles 28:9 Isaiah 45:20-25 Matthew 4:10)

Q. 47. What is forbidden in the first commandment?
A. The first commandment forbiddeth the denying, (Psalm 14:1) or not worshiping and glorifying, the true God as God, (Romans 1:20-21) and our God; (Psalm 81:10-11) and the giving of that worship and glory to any other, which is due to him alone. (Ezekiel 8:16-18 Romans 1:25)

Q. 48. What are we specially taught by these words before me in the first commandment?
A. These words before me in the first commandment teach us, that God, who seeth all things, taketh notice of, and is much displeased with, the sin of having any other God. (Deuteronomy 30:17-18 Psalm 44:20-21 Ezekiel 8:12)

Q. 49. Which is the second commandment?
A. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6 Deuteronomy 5:8-10)

Q. 50. What is required in the second commandment?
A. The second commandment requireth the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath appointed in his Word. (Deuteronomy 12:32 Matthew 28:20)

Q. 51. What is forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The second commandment forbiddeth the worshiping of God by images, (Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Romans 1:22-23) or any other way not appointed in his Word. (Leviticus 10:1-2 Jeremiah 19:4-5 Colossians 2:18-23)

Q. 52. What are the reasons annexed to the second commandment?
A. The reasons annexed to the second commandment are, God’s sovereignty over us, (Psalm 95:2-3 Psalm 95:6-7 Psalm 96:9-10) his propriety in us, (Exodus 19:5 Psalm 45:11 Isaiah 54:5) and the zeal he hath to his own worship. (Exodus 34:14 Corinthians 10:22)

This may also help you:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html

:)
 
No, Gary,

The confusion is not mine. :-? . What you have posted (most of which I agree with) goes quite nicely with "you shall have no Gods before me". That's the first commandment. So it seems the Catholic Church has it in the proper place. Seems there is confusion in Protestantism as your brothers (lewis and others) don't seem to agree with your soft stand on the making of any image.
 
Lewis W said:
The Bible say No Graven Images.
Click to expand...

Then perhaps you can help me out Lewis. Why did the Jews make a bronze serpant and cheribum over the mercy seat? I know, God told them to but why did he have them violate his command if that was how it was to be taken? If it was meant, NEVER EVER MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE?
 
To be honest Thess, I don't know, and I have thought about that before. But you know He has a reason.
 
Lewis W said:
To be honest Thess, I don't know, and I have thought about that before. But you know He has a reason.
Click to expand...

If you put the first commandment and your second commandment as one, it makes alot of sense. The breakout of the commandments is a tradition and Protestants have undo emphasis on the phrase "you shall make no graven image". When that image is a "god" it is a violation of God's laws. When it is not it is fine. That is why the bronze serpant could be used to cure when it was associated with the one true God, but when it became an object of worship, the one true God destroyed it.
 
Re: Roman Catholic pray in front of a statue... and to Mary!

Gary said:
As anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge knows....

The difference is that no Baptist PRAYS to Billy Graham.
However, Roman Catholics pray to Mary, contrary to anything in the Bible.

Get it yet?

:wink:
Click to expand...

I can understand why there is confusion between worship and prayer. After all, the medium in which I venerate the Virgin Mother in the Rosary, and more specifically the Hail Mary, is best described as prayer. And in this prayer I certainly show my respect and appreciation for who she is and what she has done. But I am asking her to pray for me, not placing her on the same level with God.

Since Baptists believe in saints, would you believe Billy Graham might have a place in Heaven among them after he passes on? You might ask him to pray for you today, but would you be worshipping a false idol if you ask him to pray for you after he passes on?
 
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