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Birthpains... What are they, when do they occur?

Joshleet

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A commonly Held belief of Today's more Popular Prophecy teachings, Proclaim that the "birthpains" Jesus spoke of, is a reference to the "general" condition of things Prior to His return. However, there is a much deeper reason why Our Lord used this analogy about the time of the end. There is a multitude of old testament Scriptures by Most prophets that talk about these "birthpains" Jesus alludes to. Lets first Look at the answer Jesus gave.
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man decieve you, For many shall come in my name, saying I AM Christ,; and shall decieve many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, BUT THE END IS NOT YET, for NATION SHALL RISE AGAINST NATION, AND KINGDOM AGAINST KINGDOM; AND THERE SHALL BE FAMINES, AND PESTILENCES, AND EARTQUAKES, IN DIVERS PLACES. ALL THESE ARE THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS.
Jesus is quite clear as to what will occur PRIOR TO THE DAY OF THE LORD, but why did he use the "birthpain analogy"?
Jer.13:20 LIFT UP YOUR EYES, AND BEHOLD THEM THAT COME FROM THE NORTH: WHERE IS THE FLOCK THAT WAS GIVEN THEE, THY BEAUTIFUL FLOCK? WHAT WILT THOU SAY WHEN HE SHALL PUNISH THEE? FOR THOU HAST TAUGHT THEM TO BE CAPTIANS, AND AS CHIEF OVER THEE; Shall not sorrows take thee, as a woman in travail?
  • Who does the "birthpains fall on"? is it unbelievers? Nope, it is God's People. Something happens to them in the "birthpains" an invading army from the north comes against them. Here is another one....
Isaish 26:17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near to THE TIME OF HER DELIVERY, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in the sight , O lord.
  • We can see the Lord's people crying out to him, prior to their deliverence . Here is yet another.
Micah 4:9-10 Now why dost thou cry out loud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travial. Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O DAUGHTER OF ZION (this is a reference to the Church) Like a woman in travail....
  • Jesus doesn't take words very lightly. There is a very good reason why He used the term "birthpains".
Rev.12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which BROUGHT FORTH THE MAN CHILD And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpant.
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  • Please notice the Woman that the dragon goes after has given birth to the Man child. She is protected during the 42 month reign of the False messiah. If one backs up to REv. 12:2, we read..
    "and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered
  • The point I am trying to establish, that it is quite clear that the birthpains continue to occur, until the 42 month reign of the false messiah, which occurs in the Last half of the 70th week
  • The first half of the TRUE 70th week, is comprised of these birthpains Jesus, and the OT prophets spoke of.
  • The time of jacob's trouble (tribulation) will truly be a terrible time of destruction and deception on the earth. The first half of it will be comprised of these birthpains, where we witness an invading army moving on the mountains of Israel. The second half however, will be worse than the first. What can be more worse than a military invasion? simple, One coming in the Place of God, claiming to be God, At a time God's people await their deliverer.
 
Joshleet said:
The point I am trying to establish, that it is quite clear that the birthpains continue to occur, until the 42 month reign of the false messiah, which occurs in the Last half of the 70th week[/list]
  • The first half of the TRUE 70th week, is comprised of these birthpains Jesus, and the OT prophets spoke of.
  • The time of jacob's trouble (tribulation) will truly be a terrible time of destruction and deception on the earth. The first half of it will be comprised of these birthpains, where we witness an invading army moving on the mountains of Israel. The second half however, will be worse than the first. What can be more worse than a military invasion? simple, One coming in the Place of God, claiming to be God, At a time God's people await their deliverer.

The 70th week has already occurred. The prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 has already happened.

The Prophecy of the Messiah

Daniel chapter 9 contains what many consider to be the most sublime prophecy of the Old Testamentâ€â€a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Amazingly, not only did this prophecy reveal the purpose of His incarnation as a child, but it also specified when His ministry would begin and when He would die.

The prophecy contained in Daniel 9 differs significantly from those of previous chapters in that it contains no symbols. The language, while cryptic, is obviously literal and a continuation of explanation of the symbolism of chapter 8.

Verses 13 and 14 of Daniel 8 contained the climax of that chapter’s symbolic vision. Those verses also contain the central point of Daniel’s book. Daniel wrote that when this symbolic vision ended, Gabriel was commissioned to “tell this man the meaning of the vision†(chapter 8:16).

Gabriel told Daniel about the “beasts†and “horns,†but when he tried to explain 2300 “evenings and mornings,†Daniel became upset. He ends chapter 8 by saying that the vision “was beyond understanding.†So, clearly, Gabriel hadn’t completely fulfilled his commission of explaining the vision to Daniel.

Jeremiah’s 70 years

By the time of Gabriel’s visit (recorded in chapter 9), Daniel was feeling distressed. He understood from the book of Jeremiah that the “desolations of Jerusalem†were to last 70 years.1 But that span was nearly up, with no indication that any restoration of that sacred place was imminent.

In fact, the last vision Daniel had seen indicated that “‘2300 evenings and mornings’†would pass till the “sanctuary†(the temple) would be restored (chapter 8:14). Daniel probably knew that in symbolic prophecy, days represent years, so he might have been wondering if Jerusalem and the temple would lie desolate for nearly 23 more centuries! This is the context of Daniel’s prayer of repentance that comprises most of chapter 9.

God responded to Daniel’s prayer quicklyâ€â€Ã¢â‚¬Å“While I was still in prayerâ€Ââ€â€he says, and Gabriel, the man he “had seen in the earlier vision [chapter 8], came to me†(chapter 9:21). Gabriel told Daniel that he had again been commissioned to help him “‘understand the vision’†(verses 22, 23). It was then Gabriel began his explanation of the time element of that vision that Daniel fainted, and it’s the matter of that time that makes up a great part of the explanation we find in chapter 9.
These two chapters are linked, particularly in the time elements involved.

Gabriel’s explanation

Gabriel’s explanation is in chapter 9:24-27, with verse 24 an introduction to the ideas contained in the next three. It specifies the time involved and what God planned to achieve during that time.

Gabriel said that during a period of “seventy ‘sevens,’†the city, its wall and its sanctuary would be rebuilt and the Messiah would come. The rebuilding of the temple took about four years (see Ezra 4:24–5:2; 6:15), which would be 208 weeks, so it’s obvious that something more than 70 literal weeks is involved here. Sure enough, the Hebrew in which Daniel wrote this phrase implies what the Revised Standard Version translates as “seventy weeks of years†(emphasis added). Daniel had been concerned about Jeremiah’s 70 years, but Gabriel turned his attention to a period seven times longerâ€â€70 weeks of years, or 490 years.

The rest of verse 24 tells what was to happen during that 490 years. First, that time was to be a probationary period for Daniel’s peopleâ€â€one more opportunity to fulfil the role God had planned for them. Second, something special was to be done “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness.†This pictures the work of Jesus, in particular His death and His ministry as the ultimate High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary.

Third, the accurate fulfilment of this part of Gabriel’s prophecy was to “seal up vision and prophecy,†substantiating our faith in the rest of what Daniel wroteâ€â€particularly, the prophecy of chapter 8. And, fourth, this period was to see the anointing of the “most Holy.†(This latter term refers to the heavenly sanctuary, where Jesus began ministering for us after His ascension. Hebrews 9 indicates that He began His ministry by inaugurating, or “anointing,†that sanctuary.)

Christ and antichrist

Each of verses 25 to 27 is divided neatly into two parts. The first half of each verse deals with the time of Jesus’ earthly ministry and death, and the second half deals with the city, the sanctuary, and the antichrist or desolater of chapters 7 and 8.

Verse 25 specifies the starting point for the time period involvedâ€â€Ã¢â‚¬Å“the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.†This decree is the one Artaxerxes issued in 457 BC.

Verse 25 goes on to say that from this starting point “until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens’â€Ââ€â€a total of 69 weeks. The New Testament clearly and repeatedly says that Jesus is the Messiahâ€â€literally, the “Anointed One.†And Luke tells us specifically when He was anointed. It was at His baptism, when God Himself announced Jesus’ role and the Holy Spirit “anointed†Him by descending on Him in the form of a dove.2

Luke not only tells us how Jesus was anointed, but he also tells us exactly when. John the Baptist began his ministry “in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesarâ€â€when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea.â€Â3 John baptised Jesus right then. So, Jesus’ baptism was on the prophetic schedule, in 27 AD, 483 years (69 “weeks of yearsâ€Â) after 457 BC.

Gabriel’s explanation continues: “After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off†(Daniel 9:26). In other words, sometime after 27 AD, Jesus would be killed. Verse 27 says the same things in another way: “In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.†Jesus’ earthly ministry ended with His crucifixion in 31 ADâ€â€three-and-a-half years after it began at His baptism. He died in the middle of the 70th “seven†of Daniel’s prophecy. And just as Gabriel told Daniel, Jesus’ death brought an end of “sacrifice and offering.â€Â4

stoning of Stephen

Gabriel’s explanation doesn’t specify the event that marks the end of the 490 years, but verse 24 indicates that those years were a probationary period for the Jewish nation as God’s special people. For three-and-a-half years after Jesus’ death, His disciples continued to preach mainly to the Jews.

But then the official council of the Jewish nation, the Sanhedrin, began a persecution of the Christians who lived in Jerusalem, initiating this persecution by stoning to death the deacon Stephen. Consequently, the Christians scatteredâ€â€and promptly began telling Gentiles the good news of salvation through Jesus. The execution of Stephen, then, which occurred about 34 AD, marks the end of the 490 years. From that point on the gospel was preached to the Gentiles as well as the Jews, and people became God’s “nation†because of their relationship with Jesus rather than because of their ethnicity.

And what of the city of Jerusalem and the antichrist-desolater? Verse 25 says that the city would be rebuilt, but “in times of troubleâ€Ââ€â€which it was (see the books of Ezra and Nehemiah). But then “the people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary†(verse 26). Jesus warned His iples of the “abomination that causes desolation†(verse 27) of Daniel’s prophecy and said, “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.â€Â5 Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed by a Roman army in 70 AD, less than 40 years after the ending date of this prophecy.

Like Daniel 7 and 8, however, chapter 9 ends on a note more satisfying than the triumph of the antichrist-desolater. The conclusion of Daniel 9 says that God’s purpose will eventually prevail, and the “decreed end†will ultimately be “poured out on the desolater†(verse 27, RSV). God will rescue those who have trusted in Him, and He will establish a new Jerusalem that will never be destroyed.

1. See Daniel 9:2; Jeremiah 29:10.
2. See Luke 3:21, 22.
3. Luke 3:1.
4. See, for example, Hebrews 10:4-9.
5. See Matthew 24:15; Luke 21:20.
 
Your conclusion that Daniels Prophecies were all fulfilled at the Messiah's first coming lacks the fulfillment of Many Prophecies Concerning the Nation of Israel. There is still yet a future fulfillment of these prophecies.
  • For instance, you state that in A.D. 70 at the time of the Roman invasion and destruction of the temple is the fulfillment of the "abomination of desolation". If this was the fulfillment, then it must have occured within the 70th Week that you conclude was fulfilled 3 1/2 years after the cross.[list:6z7ehtvg]
[/list:u:6z7ehtvg] Daniel Chapter nine never establishes that that the Messiah was "cut off" 69 1/2 weeks of years into this time period.
Daniel 9:26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.
On one hand, you state that the "sacrifices were stopped" in the Midst of the week at the cross, but on the other hand, the Word of God states otherwise. If the Seven weeks of years truly did occur Prior to the 62 weeks, that would still leave a One week, (seven Year) period yet to be fulfilled. Personally I believe the Word of God..
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and TWO weeks shall Messiah be "cut off"
  • If this is true, then wouldn't that leave EIGHT WEEKS OF YEARS LEFT TO BE FULILLED (56 yEARS)?? We have always "assumed" that these two time frames should be added together, but why?? Doesn't this Prophecy reveal BOTH advents of the Messiah? There are six events that are fulfilled in this prophecy. Only three of them were fulfilled at the Messiah's first advent. But this is a discussion for another thread.
There is a time period that the Lord does deal with the remnant of Israel prior to His return. This However is accomplished UNder the new covenant. Contrary to the Pretribulationsist perspective, which states that the Lord is dealing exclusively with Israel in the final seven years, it is quite apparent that He is dealing with all.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the Kingdom (the covenant) shall be preached (confirmed) IN ALL THE WORLD FOR A WITNESS UNTO ALL NATIONS (with many for one week): and then the END shall come.
  • I don't know how anyone can claim that this was done by 70 A.D.
We have been blessed with something that those in the 1st century didn't have...hindsight. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THE MESSIAH, Why? Because Some did understand the timing prophecies. Many saw a dual portiat of the Messiah, one as a suffering servant, the other as a conquering King. There were some that concluded that there would be TWO MEssiah's coming, due to this "dual" portiat. What they didn't understand was it was the same Messiah coming twice. If we view the Daniel 9 prophecy through this perspective, we can clearly see the duality factor of the prophecy. I already stated that there are six fulfillments of what the Messiah will do.. to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity. These three were fulfilled at Messiah's first coming. The next will be fulfilled at His second. "To bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and Prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. When do the final three occur??
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in Heaven, saying The kingdoms of this world, are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever.
This is completed at the end of the 70th week.If we continiue in Daniel 9 we also witness.. From the "going forth of the Commandment" to "restore" and "build" jerusalem. Notice these are two seperate events. One occurs before the messiah's first coming, one before the his second. We are then given TWO portiats of the Messiah "unto the Messiah, the prince... These portiats paints one of a suffering servant, the other as Royalty. We are then given TWO TIME FRAMES. SHALL BE SEVEN WEEKS, AND THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS. WE ARE THEN GIVEN THE COMPLETION OF THE FIRST TIME FRAME.. "ANd afteer threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off... This is what we are supposed to "know therefore, and understand". This prophecy reveals BOTH advents of the Messiah.
 
I guess will just have to agree to disagree then.
 
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