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Bible Study Book of Job

J

Jups

Member
Hi, I read the Book of Job and as I was reflecting upon it a few questions came up. I hope that you guys can help me find some answers. I do not wish to question God's motives and purposes but these questions really confused me.

1. If God and Sin can not go together, why was satan able to go to heaven and be in the presence of God? (Job 1:6)

2. Satan challenged God that if He take away all that Job has, Job would curse God (Job 1 : 9 - 11). But in chapter 1, verse 12 God gave a limit to what satan can do by saying not to take Job's life. My question is: Is satan subject to the will of God?

3. Since the angels in heaven were created to serve God and satan was once called Lucifer and was an angel of God does that mean satan is still serving God?

4. Someone also asked me why is it that Job was declared righteous before God and that he was "a perfect and upright man" and that "there is none like him in the earth" (Job 1 : 8) It seemed that satan and God wagered wether Job would curse God or not if he went through severe trials. So why did God take satans challenge and allowed Job to be tested severely?

I thank, those who would answer, in advance. God Bless!!!
 
1. This doctrine is not backed up by any Talmudic scripture (edited for an admin, is this better?). Go to askmoses.com to understand Jewish faith, please. You will see that Jews consider God to be Panentheistic (http://www.wikipedia.org for referrence on this term).

2. If you start to understand Panentheistic God, you will understand that YHWH was probably emanation (the visible of the invisible God) and had full control over Satan because Satan was a spiritual subject (probably not material or simply with ability to take material form). I'm not sure, if my answer is ocrrect so simply visit http://www.askmoses.com.

3. Satan was never called Lucifer, that's first. He has been called Sataniel/Satanael/Samael, Lucifer has been a title, not a name. Satan derives from Sataniel and is its shorter form. You would have to read Books of Enoch to understand the subject. Some angels fell from God's grace - God is still ruler of them, but they have free will of performing evil.

4. All in all - this could be simply a tale, that you can overcome everything bad and still see good in the Panentheistic God. Not everything written in the Bible and yet not labelled 'tale' isn't tale - it could be, just like Creation story in Genesis.
 
KaerbEmEvig said:
1. This doctrine has been made up by Christians. Go to askmoses.com to understand Jewish faith, please. You will see that Jews consider God to be Panentheistic (http://www.wikipedia.org for referrence on this term).

2. If you start to understand Panentheistic God, you will understand that YHWH was probably emanation (the visible of the invisible God) and had full control over Satan because Satan was a spiritual subject (probably not material or simply with ability to take material form). I'm not sure, if my answer is ocrrect so simply visit http://www.askmoses.com.

3. Satan was never called Lucifer, that's first. He has been called Sataniel/Satanael/Samael, Lucifer has been a title, not a name. Satan derives from Sataniel and is its shorter form. You would have to read Books of Enoch to understand the subject. Some angels fell from God's grace - God is still ruler of them, but they have free will of performing evil.

4. All in all - this could be simply a tale, that you can overcome everything bad and still see good in the Panentheistic God. Not everything written in the Bible and yet not labelled 'tale' isn't tale - it could be, just like Creation story in Genesis.
Click to expand...


Givemeabreak.....a better site to explain the Jewish view of God is http://www.Jewishencyclopedia.com.....BTW, it's the premier site for Judacia....


Satan still has acces to heaven....it's not until the midway point of the last 7 years before the Messianic Kingdom period begins that he is kicked out.
 
Just a little note here, be careful what you apply to your life as doctrine from Job. Make sure that something you are trying to apply to your life from Job, isn't from one of his friends... (Job has chapters written by what God says, Job says, and what Job's friends say.) Remember that Job's friends were trying to convince him that God had forsaken him. So don't take anything his friends say doctrinally, or at least seriously pray about it and discuss it with your pastor.

Sorry that was off subject, I just wanted to say that really quick, I don't know if where you were getting your question from was from Job or God or the friends, I didn't fully read the post.
 
Jups said:
Hi, I read the Book of Job and as I was reflecting upon it a few questions came up. I hope that you guys can help me find some answers. I do not wish to question God's motives and purposes but these questions really confused me.

1. If God and Sin can not go together, why was satan able to go to heaven and be in the presence of God? (Job 1:6)

2. Satan challenged God that if He take away all that Job has, Job would curse God (Job 1 : 9 - 11). But in chapter 1, verse 12 God gave a limit to what satan can do by saying not to take Job's life. My question is: Is satan subject to the will of God?

3. Since the angels in heaven were created to serve God and satan was once called Lucifer and was an angel of God does that mean satan is still serving God?

4. Someone also asked me why is it that Job was declared righteous before God and that he was "a perfect and upright man" and that "there is none like him in the earth" (Job 1 : 8) It seemed that satan and God wagered wether Job would curse God or not if he went through severe trials. So why did God take satans challenge and allowed Job to be tested severely?

I thank, those who would answer, in advance. God Bless!!!
Click to expand...

1 All Sin is against God, God can not sin against Himself. If it pleases God to take my life it can not be a sin but if you unjustly took my life you would have violated God's commandment displeasing Him. God does with satan as He wills.

2 The way I read Job 1:8 it looks like it was God who made the challenge. And yes all in heaven and earth are subject to His will.

3 God allows satan to exist, this is His will and part of His plan. In the end satan will bring glory to his Creator. I don't know if that will be by being defeated or if satan will fall down in worship to God, but it will come about.

4 Job brought glory to God by being a faithful.


I believe that we have one and only one purpose on this earth and that is to serve God. To serve God means to bringing glory to His name. He did not create us so that He could worship us. We are not here to have a good time and worship the flesh.

We are here to bring glory to our creator.

Fat
 
Jups said:
Hi, I read the Book of Job and as I was reflecting upon it a few questions came up. I hope that you guys can help me find some answers. I do not wish to question God's motives and purposes but these questions really confused me.

1. If God and Sin can not go together, why was satan able to go to heaven and be in the presence of God? (Job 1:6)

2. Satan challenged God that if He take away all that Job has, Job would curse God (Job 1 : 9 - 11). But in chapter 1, verse 12 God gave a limit to what satan can do by saying not to take Job's life. My question is: Is satan subject to the will of God?

3. Since the angels in heaven were created to serve God and satan was once called Lucifer and was an angel of God does that mean satan is still serving God?

4. Someone also asked me why is it that Job was declared righteous before God and that he was "a perfect and upright man" and that "there is none like him in the earth" (Job 1 : 8) It seemed that satan and God wagered wether Job would curse God or not if he went through severe trials. So why did God take satans challenge and allowed Job to be tested severely?
Click to expand...
The book of Job is to be carefully studied, for those who want to survive, the Great Tribulation soon to come !
 
Sorry I’m a little late on this thread (I just found it).

First, I really enjoy the book of Job. I hope we can discuss it in further detail

1. If God and Sin can not go together, why was satan able to go to heaven and be in the presence of God? (Job 1:6)
Click to expand...

There is a difference between sin and temptation (James 1:13-15). Keep in mind that Satan is the accuser, that’s his job so to speak.

2. Satan challenged God that if He take away all that Job has, Job would curse God (Job 1 : 9 - 11). But in chapter 1, verse 12 God gave a limit to what satan can do by saying not to take Job's life. My question is: Is satan subject to the will of God?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind who started this conversation.
Job 1:8 So the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil.â€Â
Satan knew God had put a hedge around Job and he knew he couldn’t touch Job without God’s permission. So yes, I believe that Satan is subject to the will of God.

3. Since the angels in heaven were created to serve God and satan was once called Lucifer and was an angel of God does that mean satan is still serving God?
Click to expand...

Key word here is serving… No, I don’t think that he’s serving God, but he is limited by what God will allow him to do.

4. Someone also asked me why is it that Job was declared righteous before God and that he was "a perfect and upright man" and that "there is none like him in the earth" (Job 1 : 8) It seemed that satan and God wagered wether Job would curse God or not if he went through severe trials. So why did God take satans challenge and allowed Job to be tested severely?
Click to expand...

I don’t think that it was a challenge and I don’t look at it as a wager. God knew exactly what Job could handle and what he had to go through to produce the fruit that God required of him. Keeping that in mind, God is the same God today as he was yesterday.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Job clearly loved God and with the exception of his children, Job received double back what he had lost.

What happens if we look at Job this way?

Look at Luke 12:35-48. Keeping this in context, Job was a great man of God and was entrusted with much. If you read further, Job begins to justify his righteousness to his friends in defense to their false accusations. But if you pay attention, you can see how God’s purpose for Job is laid out and you begin to see how Job has taken the credit for what God had done through him. (Reminds me when Moses hit the stone and took credit for the water instead of doing what God told him to do, hence giving God the credit)
Instead of answering the question, his pride gets swelled up. Hmmm… have we ever seen this before?
Job 12:3 But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knows not such things as these?

Jesus Said, Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

The writer of Hebrews has this to say:
Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked of him:
This verse references Job 5:17-18. and 2Sa 6:7-10. Job clearly thought a tad higher of himself than he ought to have…


I’ll cut it short here, but in closing I’d like to say this. Most people believe that God never answered Job’s question, but it is clear that God’s word through Elihu’s mouth pierced through Job.
 
Brothers! I thank you for your reply. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for the clarifications, explanations and links, they have helped me a lot.

May the peace and blessing of our Lord be upon you!
 
3. Satan was never called Lucifer, that's first. He has been called Sataniel/Satanael/Samael, Lucifer has been a title, not a name. Satan derives from Sataniel and is its shorter form. You would have to read Books of Enoch to understand the subject. Some angels fell from God's grace - God is still ruler of them, but they have free will of performing evil.
Click to expand...

The only things with freewill is angels and humans. Satan had freewill and on his own turned against god.
 
3. Satan was never called Lucifer, that's first. He has been called Sataniel/Satanael/Samael, Lucifer has been a title, not a name. Satan derives from Sataniel and is its shorter form. You would have to read Books of Enoch to understand the subject. Some angels fell from God's grace - God is still ruler of them, but they have free will of performing evil.
Click to expand...

The only things with freewill is angels and humans. Satan had freewill and on his own turned against god.
 
So why did God take satans challenge and allowed Job to be tested severely?
Click to expand...
Satan has the legal right to challenge anyone who leaves his ranks to join God.
One has to look at it from a courtroom scene.
Since we have sinned, we come under satan's dominion and leadership....which will result in the death penalty.
Jesus Christ came to pardon us from those sins which caused us to be lost in the first place.
Satan claims that since we are sinners by nature, we will always be sinners, not able to live a sinless life.
Christ disagrees !
Therefore satan has the legal right, to bring temptations to us, to try to prove himself right.
When a Christian falls back into any sinful practice, which he had before asking for forgivess of past sins, satan's point is proved to be right.

Didn't you get that, from the story of Job ?

God said that Job was a perfect man......and satan said no he isn't, and I want the chance to prove it !

The Christian life is a warfare.

But "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

In this conflict of righteousness against unrighteousness we can be successful only by divine aid.
Our finite will must be brought into submission to the will of the Infinite; the human will must be blended with the divine.

[/quote]The book of Job is to be carefully studied, for those who want to survive, the Great Tribulation soon to come ![/quote]
 
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