Born Again Brainwashing - (Must read article on conversions)

[Soma-Sight]

This article will blow your mind. It is worth reading in its entirety for a person of ANY religious persuasion.....

Here are some excerpts

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/fundamen ... un05.shtml

So, to begin, I want to state the most basic of all facts about brainwashing: In the entire history of man, no one has ever been brainwashed and realized, or believed, that he had been brainwashed. Those who have been brainwashed will usually passionately defend their manipulators, claiming they have simply been "shown the light" ...or have been transformed in miraculous ways.


The Birth of Conversion:
Brainwashing in Christian Revivalism in 1735.
Conversion is a "nice" word for brainwashing...and any study of brainwashing has to begin with a study of Christian revivalism in eighteenth century America. Apparently, Jonathan Edwards accidentally discovered the techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in Northampton, Massachusetts. By inducing guilt and acute apprehension and by increasing the tension, the "sinners" attending his revival meetings would break down and completely submit. Technically, what Edwards was doing was creating conditions that wipe the brain slate clean so that the mind accepts new programming. The problem was that the new input was negative. He would tell them, "You're a sinner! You're destined for hell!"

As a result, one person committed suicide and another attempted suicide. And the neighbors of the suicidal converts related that they, too, were affected so deeply that, although they had found "eternal salvation," they were obsessed with a diabolical temptation to end their own lives.


The way to achieve conversion are many and varied, but the usual first step in religious or political brainwashing is to work on the emotions of an individual or group until they reach an abnormal level of anger, fear, exitement, or nervous tension.


Powerful sound and the proper use of lighting are of primary importance in inducing an altered state of consciousnes--I've been using them for years in my own seminars. However, my participants are fully aware of the process and what they can expect as a result of their participation.



Lack of Humor: No Release, No Resistance
The final tip-off is that there is no humor in the communications...at least until the participants are converted. Then, merry-making and humor are highly desirable as symbols of the new joy the participants have supposedly "found."

 

[antitox]

Yeah, this is education, alright. :roll:

 

[Soma-Sight]

Yeah, this is education, alright.

I triple dog dare you to actually read it.....

8-)

 

[antitox]

Yeah, this is education, alright.

I triple dog dare you to actually read it.....

8-)

Triple dog? :smt104 What's that? Three dogs? A new term? Or a really really OLD one?

I'd probably be really sorry to fill my head with your crap, as I have taken such challenges before. So far nothing you have said has impressed me on this board.

 

[ArtGuy]

If this is meant to illustrate that self-proclaimed Christians have, at times, used unsavory means to try to convert unbelievers, then it's a sound point. The ends never justify the means, and you can't simply try to force someone to accept Jesus at any cost. If you break down their will and compel them to accept Christ against their wishes, it's not a true acceptance, and they haven't really been saved. Salvation needs to be a conscious choice, not something you're tricked into. Conversion through reconditioning is no better than conversion at the point of a sword. We must convert people through love and honesty, not through chicanery and psychological tinkering.

If, however, the point is meant to be that everyone who believes in Christ has been brainwashed, then it's stupid beyond belief. Many people, consciously and in good faith, accept Jesus as their Lord of their own volition, in the same way that people consciously choose a political affiliation, or a career, or a type of deli meat for their sandwich.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Triple dog? What's that? Three dogs? A new term? Or a really really OLD one?

I'd probably be really sorry to fill my head with your crap, as I have taken such challenges before. So far nothing you have said has impressed me on this board.

Psychological traits of fundamentalism:

Low tolerance for ambiguity. Everything must be clear cut, black and white. Nothing can be "possibly true but unproven at this time, we're still studying it." Fundamentalists regard science as flawed precisely because science changes. (A striking characteristic of fundamentalists is that their response to any setback which may instill doubt is to step up evangelizing for converts.)

 

[ArtGuy]

Psychological traits of fundamentalism:

Low tolerance for ambiguity. Everything must be clear cut, black and white. Nothing can be "possibly true but unproven at this time, we're still studying it." Fundamentalists regard science as flawed precisely because science changes. (A striking characteristic of fundamentalists is that their response to any setback which may instill doubt is to step up evangelizing for converts.)

Sounds to me like you're taking a subset of irrational Christians, dubbing them "fundamentalists", and using this to declare fundamentalism as bad. In this case, sure, fundamentalism is bad. Because you've defined it that way.

Well here, I'm going to define atheism as follows:

"Atheists are people who don't believe in God because they're arrogant and stubborn. They're also too dumb to understand Christianity. Also, they smell bad."

There. I can now safely say that atheists are all arrogant, stubborn, stupid, and skinky. If you aren't all of these things, well, that just means you're not really an atheist.

See my point? You're playing semantic word games. This does nobody any good.

 

[Soma-Sight]

"Atheists are people who don't believe in God because they're arrogant and stubborn. They're also too dumb to understand Christianity. Also, they smell bad."

Im not an atheist.... far from it....

Read the WHOLE article and than comment on it. Otherwiswe our dialogue here is pointless.....

I am telling you it is worth it.

 

[ArtGuy]

"Atheists are people who don't believe in God because they're arrogant and stubborn. They're also too dumb to understand Christianity. Also, they smell bad."

Im not an atheist.... far from it....

I wasn't saying you were. I was referring to "you" in the general sense. Do you still see my point?

Read the WHOLE article and than comment on it. Otherwiswe our dialogue here is pointless.....

I am telling you it is worth it.

I plan to, but that's a loooooooong frickin' article. Gimme some time.

edit: Okay, I read the article. It mentions a lot of interesting techniques, but the author also leaps to some very broad conclusions and very heavy accusations without any semblance of evidence other than vague anecdotes. Yes, I don't doubt that a lot of people use psychology to sell ideas. Sure, I agree that there are plenty of churches out there that use unsavory means to generate revenue and clout. However, it's going to take more than the assertions of some self-described expert to buy into the notion that this is a nationwide epidemic, and that we're all pawns subject to the whims of brainwashing experts. The article itself reads like someone trying to sell me something, which is a delicious irony.

In otherwords, my original comments stand.

 

[Gary]

What a waste of time...

No wonder new-age fundies like Soma-Sight are so misguided. They actually spend time READING this rubbish!!!

:-?

 

[ArtGuy]

What a waste of time...

No wonder new-age fundies like Soma-Sight are so misguided. They actually spend time READING this rubbish!!!

:-?

...because commenting ad nauseum about the flaws in things you haven't actually read is a virtue?

Me, I find I'm much more able to argue against ideas with which I disagree when I take the time to actually familiarize myself with them. It's much more enriching than shouting, "This thing about which I have no clue whatsoever is bad, because it offends my sensibilities! I think! Maybe!"

 

[Gary]

Soma-Sight had claimed: "This article will blow your mind. It is worth reading in its entirety for a person of ANY religious persuasion..... "

I read it. Load of rubbish. Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Gary,

Are you serious?

I dont believe you read the article in its entirety...

This was not an anti-Christian article...

Hare Krishnas, Buddhists, hypnotists groups, the military, and the Evangelical regime were ALL included......

ALL of these groups use mind control to convert you!

I know you have been in Church and the "pressure" of the sermon will lead you to laugh, to cry, to confess, to CONVERT!!!!

In all your study if the evils of Islam you cannot see the puppeteer holding the strings leading the masses this way and that all in the name of God?

You can see the brainwashing in Islam as people blow themselves up over cartoons yet you see no correlation of "mass conversions in huge buildings where 1,000's at one time "give themselves" to a certaian view of Christ?"

These techniques are real and they do work.....

It is mind control one way or the other.....[/b]

 

[Featherbop]

Good article, Soma.

Any agenda, whether it be religious, secular, political, what have you....attempts to convert as many people as possible to it's cause. I have seen it plenty. I still do. I think it is frightening. I see people that are "brainwashed" into a cause or group so much that they will, without question, defend that cause regardless(Democrats and republicans come to mind).

Techniques are either subtle, like slight influence upon the sense, or are extreme, such as an emotional overload. Spreading the word about the brainwashing techniques would give vital awareness to those at risk.

It is so hard to understand how anyone could be brainwashed looking from the outside in. For instance, a suicide cult. How could it be possible that so many people could be influenced to commit suicide? Frankly, it doesn't make sense from where I stand.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Featherbop,

Heres a couple cases I know of that will shockyou....

1. The Hare Krishna movement had a young man join there cause. He was involved for several years and the guru made it so he didnt have contact with his family any more. He began to "lose it". He would sit and stare at the wall and sometimes not even get out of bed for days. The guru said it was normal and he was getting "enlightened". His parents finally busted in to see their son drooling and he had lost lots of weight. They took him to the hospital to find an orange sized tumor in the brain!!!

And all the while the guru thought he was "progressing well"!!!!!

2. A Christian Science family refused to give their young child a life saving blood transfusion because it violated their religion. The child died due to the brainwashing of irrational fears of a Church....

3. Add in your choice of Islamic or Jewish terror groups.....

What all three cases demonstrate here and as shown in the article is the fact that religion braiwashes you.... For good or for evil..... One way or another your "Church" controls your mind if you take it very seriously and are exclusivistic in relation to the teachings you are told are right and those that are wrong.[/b]

 

[GundamZero]

Soma, we already know about brainwashing. 8-)

You don't need someone else to brainwash you, people do it themselves all the time. As a matter of fact, most of the time only the most mature Christians will be free from the lies they feed themselves all the time. Actually, knowing how one tricks the mind is useful for avioding it, but it takes a lot less then guilt trips and lights. I encourage you to read the Screwtape letters, written by C.S. Lewis. In it, Lewis writes as the demon Screwtape, who is teaching his nephew Wormwood how to deal with the Christian threat. You may, as I did, find it quite useful in helping you make your faith more genuine, and you may find it useful in helping others. :wink:

But I implore you to be careful the way you put things because articles like that come a dime a dozen. :-?

 

[ArtGuy]

Soma-Sight had claimed: "This article will blow your mind. It is worth reading in its entirety for a person of ANY religious persuasion..... "

I read it. Load of rubbish. Glad you enjoyed it.

For some reason, my response to you was deleted, but I'm getting used to it at this point.

Anyway, what I said was roughly:

Sorry to imply that you hadn't read the article, and I'm glad you did. I still found it an interesting look on how some unethical people use psychology to trick people for their own ends.

 

[Ajax 777]

If, however, the point is meant to be that everyone who believes in Christ has been brainwashed, then it's stupid beyond belief. Many people, consciously and in good faith, accept Jesus as their Lord of their own volition, in the same way that people consciously choose a political affiliation, or a career, or a type of deli meat for their sandwich.

AMEN! That's one for the "away" team! :-D

 

[Soma-Sight]

This article may seem silly to some like antitox and Gary....

But just remember your friends Acmed and Muhhamed 3,000 miles away.....

 

[Guest]

This article may seem silly to some like antitox and Gary....

But just remember your friends Acmed and Muhhamed 3,000 miles away.....

fan the flames of hatred, that'll help