British decline in religion seems to have halted

[OzSpen]

There is a new article in the British online newspaper, The Independent (8 August 2016), 'The steady decline of religion in Britain "has come to a halt"'. The article suggests a number of factors for this.

Here in Australia, we have a national census tomorrow, 9 August 2016, and there has been a very active campaign by the Atheist Society of Australia to have the 'no religion' category placed as the first option in Q19. This campaign has worked and the Australian Bureau of Statistics has placed it as the first option.

I've written an article in an ejournal to address this, 'Is "no religion" a new religion?' (On Line Opinion, July 19 2016) that received some hostile comments from atheists and rationalists.

In Australia, our multiculturalism has meant more people from other religious faiths have come to this country and so would influence any decline in the 'no religion' category. I can't see any increase in evangelical Christianity (the evangelical Presbyterians in my region are declining) and the theological liberals are emptying their churches. The only group that I see growing is the Pentecostals. Back in 2011, ABC News (Brisbane) reported on 'the Rise of Pentecostalism'.

What do you consider are some of the factors contributing to the decline of Christianity in your region?

Oz

 

[jasonc]

There is a new article in the British online newspaper, The Independent (8 August 2016), 'The steady decline of religion in Britain "has come to a halt"'. The article suggests a number of factors for this.

Here in Australia, we have a national census tomorrow, 9 August 2016, and there has been a very active campaign by the Atheist Society of Australia to have the 'no religion' category placed as the first option in Q19. This campaign has worked and the Australian Bureau of Statistics has placed it as the first option.

I've written an article in an ejournal to address this, 'Is "no religion" a new religion?' (On Line Opinion, July 19 2016) that received some hostile comments from atheists and rationalists.

In Australia, our multiculturalism has meant more people from other religious faiths have come to this country and so would influence any decline in the 'no religion' category. I can't see any increase in evangelical Christianity (the evangelical Presbyterians in my region are declining) and the theological liberals are emptying their churches. The only group that I see growing is the Pentecostals. Back in 2011, ABC News (Brisbane) reported on 'the Rise of Pentecostalism'.

What do you consider are some of the factors contributing to the decline of Christianity in your region?

Oz

Sadly ,division .we have churches right across from each other and won't often work together. THERE are exceptions, but given the amount imho it's the rule.

 

[Christ_empowered]

its the gradual process of secularisation. See link below.

 

[Christ_empowered]

interesting summary of secularisation theories...

http://humanreligions.info/secularisation.html

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What do you consider are some of the factors contributing to the decline of Christianity in your region?

Here in the particular part of the Bible belt of America I'm in......materialism and the internet. IOW, the same old things: The things we used to live for before we got saved, sex and money.

 

[JohnDB]

Actually IMHO we are losing the men.

It seems that unless you are a guy who wears lace underwear or your boxers inside out so that the seams don't chafe...
Or your manicure is a constant worry of yours...
Or you must be an egghead over scripture

You just ain't welcome at church where your most emotional Moment of the past week gets discussed as we sip tea being careful around the doilies that it rests upon.

The number of women to men in church is a growing ratio. Because men don't want to do those things.

We are men...we need to be needed. We need to have positive relationships with other real men if you want us to hang around.
We build stuff, fix and repair stuff, and we are the first ones out of the gate when it comes time for battle. We may take our desire for comradery to a bar or sporting event instead of sitting around holding hands and getting emotional... because that in a man's mind works better.

We don't want to go to church to fight other members. To us, that's just wrong.

Getting dressed up in itchy scratchy clothes is a pain to start with. Then to be found uneducated and bumbling around discussing feelings and emotions and thoughts we just didn't have....not going to be tops in most guys mind to go do.

To be fair there are a few programs that may address these things but there aren't enough and too few.

 

[OzSpen]

Sadly ,division .we have churches right across from each other and won't often work together. THERE are exceptions, but given the amount imho it's the rule.

Jason,

That might be where you live, but it is certainly not where I am in the northern suburbs of Brisbane.

As for churches working together, I would not be supportive of evangelicals working with the liberals because the liberals have lost the Gospel and are promoting another agenda.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Actually IMHO we are losing the men.

It seems that unless you are a guy who wears lace underwear or your boxers inside out so that the seams don't chafe...
Or your manicure is a constant worry of yours...
Or you must be an egghead over scripture

You just ain't welcome at church where your most emotional Moment of the past week gets discussed as we sip tea being careful around the doilies that it rests upon.

The number of women to men in church is a growing ratio. Because men don't want to do those things.

We are men...we need to be needed. We need to have positive relationships with other real men if you want us to hang around.
We build stuff, fix and repair stuff, and we are the first ones out of the gate when it comes time for battle. We may take our desire for comradery to a bar or sporting event instead of sitting around holding hands and getting emotional... because that in a man's mind works better.

We don't want to go to church to fight other members. To us, that's just wrong.

Getting dressed up in itchy scratchy clothes is a pain to start with. Then to be found uneducated and bumbling around discussing feelings and emotions and thoughts we just didn't have....not going to be tops in most guys mind to go do.

To be fair there are a few programs that may address these things but there aren't enough and too few.

JohnDB,

Are you serious? You seem to be pointing to externals.

In the USA, George Barna's research in 2014 found,

Looking to future generations does not paint an optimistic picture for the importance of churchgoing. Millennials (those 30 and under) stand out as least likely to value church attendance; only two in 10 believe it is important. And more than one-third of Millennial young adults (35%) take an anti-church stance. In contrast, Elders (those over 68) are the most likely (40%) to view church attendance as "very" important, compared to one-quarter (24%) who deem it "not at all" important. Boomers (ages 49—67) and Gen Xers (ages 30—48) fall in the middle of these polar opposites. While the debate rages about what will happen to Millennials as they get older—Will they return to church attendance later in life?—they are starting at a lower baseline for church participation and commitment than previous generations of young adults ('Americans divided on importance of church').​

Do we need to be addressing these issues?

Oz

 

[jasonc]

Jason,

That might be where you live, but it is certainly not where I am in the northern suburbs of Brisbane.

As for churches working together, I would not be supportive of evangelicals working with the liberals because the liberals have lost the Gospel and are promoting another agenda.

Oz

We all know who the two or three liberal churches are.Despite that my county is the most unchurched in the nation.I could point out just one area that is poor and I read that there murders not far from a street with two churches down it.That route has about 5 churches all within minutes of each other.Division.

 

[jasonc]

JohnDB,

Are you serious? You seem to be pointing to externals.

In the USA, George Barna's research in 2014 found,

Looking to future generations does not paint an optimistic picture for the importance of churchgoing. Millennials (those 30 and under) stand out as least likely to value church attendance; only two in 10 believe it is important. And more than one-third of Millennial young adults (35%) take an anti-church stance. In contrast, Elders (those over 68) are the most likely (40%) to view church attendance as "very" important, compared to one-quarter (24%) who deem it "not at all" important. Boomers (ages 49—67) and Gen Xers (ages 30—48) fall in the middle of these polar opposites. While the debate rages about what will happen to Millennials as they get older—Will they return to church attendance later in life?—they are starting at a lower baseline for church participation and commitment than previous generations of young adults ('Americans divided on importance of church').​

Do we need to be addressing these issues?

Oz

I don't feel comfortable talking non veteran christians. I could post a video that will cause a reaction for me.yet it would be banned.veterans will bond better amongst each other and deal with those issues better then those that don't understand. Not that we don't want them to help.

If I have a ptsd issue and the chaplain isn't able to respond, I have to go outside my church or anywhere to get help.

 

[JohnDB]

JohnDB,

Are you serious? You seem to be pointing to externals.

In the USA, George Barna's research in 2014 found,

Looking to future generations does not paint an optimistic picture for the importance of churchgoing. Millennials (those 30 and under) stand out as least likely to value church attendance; only two in 10 believe it is important. And more than one-third of Millennial young adults (35%) take an anti-church stance. In contrast, Elders (those over 68) are the most likely (40%) to view church attendance as "very" important, compared to one-quarter (24%) who deem it "not at all" important. Boomers (ages 49—67) and Gen Xers (ages 30—48) fall in the middle of these polar opposites. While the debate rages about what will happen to Millennials as they get older—Will they return to church attendance later in life?—they are starting at a lower baseline for church participation and commitment than previous generations of young adults ('Americans divided on importance of church').​

Do we need to be addressing these issues?

Oz

Externals?
Yes I'm serious.
When people are made to feel uncomfortable, unwanted, uneducated and bumbling they ain't going to hang around to see what other insults these people can come up with.

College and career classes and groups must be made better instead of an "afterthought". Also the demographic of the nuclear family is shrinking. Single parent families are the largest demographic in America these days.

Most churches don't cater to these demographics...instead they cater to the geriatric and ultra demographics because of the money they can contribute with the fewest services and programs they may avail themselves of.

Having a place for people in various stages of life in church is crucial for the continued success of church.

There's a book out there entitled "That Printer of Udell's" which is 100+ years old. It's a short easy read but it sounds like it was written last week.

They've had the same problems we have today way back when. But today we have these problems on steroids.

 

[Corn Pop]

The statistics are going to be interesting, not that I think there perfectly accurate or anything.

 

[OzSpen]

Externals?
Yes I'm serious.
When people are made to feel uncomfortable, unwanted, uneducated and bumbling they ain't going to hang around to see what other insults these people can come up with.

College and career classes and groups must be made better instead of an "afterthought". Also the demographic of the nuclear family is shrinking. Single parent families are the largest demographic in America these days.

Most churches don't cater to these demographics...instead they cater to the geriatric and ultra demographics because of the money they can contribute with the fewest services and programs they may avail themselves of.

Having a place for people in various stages of life in church is crucial for the continued success of church.

There's a book out there entitled "That Printer of Udell's" which is 100+ years old. It's a short easy read but it sounds like it was written last week.

They've had the same problems we have today way back when. But today we have these problems on steroids.

Your points are valid, but I'm not convinced the average church in my neck of the woods has the resources to be able to address the socio-economic groups you suggested. What about the 1/3 of Millennials who don't consider church important?

You state: 'Most churches don't cater to these demographics...instead they cater to the geriatric and ultra demographics'. What data do you have to support that statement?

In my region, the greatest challenge is to know how to do systematic or targeted outreach to reach various groups. There's a lack of overt evangelism here.

There is training coming up later in the year by a group that is doing street evangelism in downtown Brisbane. It's called Operation513.com.

Oz

 

[Milk-Drops]

I think the biggest impact to the Christian Religion is the concept of individualism and personal responsibility. As people forge their lives, Christianity might become less Important as the individual seeks answers for the why questions and also seek to satisfy their wants and needs through hard work and perseverance. This doesn't mean Christians are not hardworking nor self reliant, but that is the push first world societies seem to be heading. Its the strength of the individual to purge hardships and cast off road blocks to personal happieness that drives people to criticize and analyze their convictions and stances. This is especially true in American philosophy where individual perserverance and raising one's self from poverty to self reliance is a big corner stone.

Just my thoughts.

 

[JohnDB]

Your points are valid, but I'm not convinced the average church in my neck of the woods has the resources to be able to address the socio-economic groups you suggested. What about the 1/3 of Millennials who don't consider church important?

You state: 'Most churches don't cater to these demographics...instead they cater to the geriatric and ultra demographics'. What data do you have to support that statement?

In my region, the greatest challenge is to know how to do systematic or targeted outreach to reach various groups. There's a lack of overt evangelism here.

There is training coming up later in the year by a group that is doing street evangelism in downtown Brisbane. It's called Operation513.com.

Oz

I'll grant you that every region has its own issues that both bless and curse the Church. Seen this more than once.

Street evangelism is not prohibited by me but I find it highly ineffective. But the regular people inviting coworkers and neighbors to church has a really high efficiency rating.
If you weren't a regular church attendee and five of your friends invited you to different churches wouldn't you be more likely to start attending one of some kind?
Probably to one you were invited to.
Because if you believed that you were the only one not going anywhere you would fix it. You certainly don't want to be ostracized from society completely. Being an individual is OK...but not so far out of societal norms that you don't belong.

And then these people who attend for the first time find warm and friendly people and projects that they have special talents for or are interested in gaining talents for will continue to come.
You might not return to get a falafel but if you make great ice cream and wish to show off your skills at it...

All the while the Gospel message is being preached and presented...and that your actions do matter...as well as the attitudes you promote.

I was raised to find friends at church. No matter where I was I could find friends at a church. It got thin at times and places to find one that fit. In the "Bible belt" it's easier. But I'm sure that some people will find it impossible.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think that society is more into rational explanation, relying on science to the point of...I think its called "science-ism," where you'll accept any explanation that sounds science-y enough. In terms of the meaning of life and such, I think the branch of (pseudo)science people turn to the most is the "helping professions," especially Mental Health, Inc.

A lot of what were once viewed as sins are now conditions, diseases, disorders, etc. We live in a more therepeutically-oriented society, which I think is an outgrowth of increasing reliance on science and "experts" to guide all aspects of our lives.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I think that society is more into rational explanation, relying on science to the point of...I think its called "science-ism," where you'll accept any explanation that sounds science-y enough. In terms of the meaning of life and such, I think the branch of (pseudo)science people turn to the most is the "helping professions," especially Mental Health, Inc.

A lot of what were once viewed as sins are now conditions, diseases, disorders, etc. We live in a more therepeutically-oriented society, which I think is an outgrowth of increasing reliance on science and "experts" to guide all aspects of our lives.

Its especially a problem when it comes to GMO fears and anti vaxers. Science shouldn't be more than a tool, but to many it can mutate into a sort of wonky philosophy.

 

[OzSpen]

I'll grant you that every region has its own issues that both bless and curse the Church. Seen this more than once.

Street evangelism is not prohibited by me but I find it highly ineffective. But the regular people inviting coworkers and neighbors to church has a really high efficiency rating.
If you weren't a regular church attendee and five of your friends invited you to different churches wouldn't you be more likely to start attending one of some kind?
Probably to one you were invited to.
Because if you believed that you were the only one not going anywhere you would fix it. You certainly don't want to be ostracized from society completely. Being an individual is OK...but not so far out of societal norms that you don't belong.

And then these people who attend for the first time find warm and friendly people and projects that they have special talents for or are interested in gaining talents for will continue to come.
You might not return to get a falafel but if you make great ice cream and wish to show off your skills at it...

All the while the Gospel message is being preached and presented...and that your actions do matter...as well as the attitudes you promote.

I was raised to find friends at church. No matter where I was I could find friends at a church. It got thin at times and places to find one that fit. In the "Bible belt" it's easier. But I'm sure that some people will find it impossible.

John,

You've made some excellent points for attracting people to church. However, i wouldn't invite unbelievers to the church I attend. It is not designed for them. It is for the people of God to be taught and built up in the faith.

I'm not convinced coming to church is the place where 'the Gospel message is being preached and presented' (contra Rick Warren & Bill Hybels). The church is the place there these things should be happening:

• 'What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up' (1 Cor 14:26 NIV). For many unbelievers, that kind of environment would be strange. It's also strange for many seeker-sensitive churches as well.
  
• 'So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up' (Eph 4:11-12 NIV).

In my understanding, the gathering of the church is where all of God's people have the opportunity to express their gifts. The teaching ministry is fundamental for building up the believers in Christ.

Reaching the lost happens through outreach to them by evangelists. In-reach into the church must not replace out-reach to unbelievers.

Oz

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John,

You've made some excellent points for attracting people to church. However, i wouldn't invite unbelievers to the church I attend. It is not designed for them. It is for the people of God to be taught and built up in the faith.

I'm not convinced coming to church is the place where 'the Gospel message is being preached and presented' (contra Rick Warren & Bill Hybels). The church is the place there these things should be happening:

• 'What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up' (1 Cor 14:26 NIV). For many unbelievers, that kind of environment would be strange. It's also strange for many seeker-sensitive churches as well.
  
• 'So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up' (Eph 4:11-12 NIV).

In my understanding, the gathering of the church is where all of God's people have the opportunity to express their gifts. The teaching ministry is fundamental for building up the believers in Christ.

Reaching the lost happens through outreach to them by evangelists. In-reach into the church must not replace out-reach to unbelievers.

Oz

Here in America, more and more churches are insisting that 'church' is for getting unbelievers saved. In the meantime, those of us that are already saved are starving to death.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The teaching ministry is fundamental for building up the believers in Christ.

In America, evangelists are misunderstood to be pastors, not realizing they are two distinct gifts and it is the office of pastor/elder that Paul says should be able to teach (pastor/teacher arguably being a single office, not two--Ephesians 4:11 NASB). A church is to be built around the teaching ministry of a pastor and/or elders, not around the preaching ministry of an evangelist.