Robert Pate
Member
Free will is not an idol, free will is common sense. You apparently believe that we are all just a bunch of dumb robots that cannot think for ourselves. Doesn't bring much glory to God.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Calvinism: A Denial of Man's Free Will
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
DiscipleDave
Member
And also to do Good.
DiscipleDave
Member
God does indeed have Free Will.
Is He free to choose to do nothing?
Is He free to choose to create another Galaxy?
Is He free to choose to create more Angels?
Is He free to choose what He wants to do today?
Free Will, is nothing more than the ability to choose to do this or that. That's it.
Anything good that the unregenerate does is motivated by pride.
Anything good the regenerate does is from the Holy Spirit.
Huge difference.
Free will is a concept made by sinful, prideful humans that want to play God.
Robert Pate
Member
God gave man a free will. We are not a bunch of dumb robots that cannot think for themselves.
Free will to do what?
Free will is not even a Biblical concept or doctrine, it is not even assumed in the Bible.
It is a man made concept that is sinful.
Grace and peace to you.
Does these verses teach free will?
Mat 11:28-30 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
If you say yes, what do you do with the preceding verses?
Mat 11:25-27 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26 “Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Grace and peace to you
Mat 11:28-30 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
If you say yes, what do you do with the preceding verses?
Mat 11:25-27 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26 “Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Grace and peace to you
DiscipleDave
Member
A devil worshiper helps an old lady cross the street because she needed help, does a Good thing. If you don't believe so, then ask the lady if she thought it was a good thing he/she did for her.
The problem with your speech, is the generalizations. When you say "ANYTHING GOOD" That would entail anything and everything Good, does it not?
If then someone falls down and someone helps her up (DOES GOOD) is that motivated by pride? No. So then your statement is incorrect, when there are thousands of examples where people can do something Good and it is NOT motivated by pride, nor by the Holy Ghost even. A devil worshiper taking his kid to go get icecream is something Good that the devil worshiper does for his kid, and it had nothing to do with being motivated by pride, or led by the Holy Ghost. They merely did GOOD because they wanted to do Good, they CHOSE to do good, which is a result of God allowing ALL HUMANS to have freewill, to either choose to do evil things, or to choose to do Good things, regardless of affiliation with God.
DiscipleDave
Member
Free will was created the very first moment that the Father in Heaven decided to have a first begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Who then decided to make all things that was made.
DiscipleDave
Member
Do you speak of Biblical concepts and doctrines but do not believe them?
Consider this:
Gen 22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
This is a BIBLICAL example of freewill being demonstrated by ABRAHAM. When God told him to go sacrifice his son, he had a choice to either do what God told him, or to NOT do what God told him to do. He had the choice, this is FREE WILL being demonstrated by the BIBLE, which you claim to believe in.
Did God KNOW He would do it? If so, then what is it plainly written:
"FOR NOW I KNOW" Does this not clearly indicate that He did NOT know prior to Him actually fixing to do it? Yes it does. When the Word of God plainly says "NOW I know" That means He did NOT know before that very point that HE KNEW.
This generation would do well to forget everything any human has ever taught them about Biblical concepts and doctrines, and merely, like children believe the Word of God and what it says.
Not so with this generation who think they know Truths of God, solely based on their own understanding, something we are told NOT TO DO.
Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Humans who go about to interpret the Word of God (as if they even had the authority to do so) are doing NOTHING but leaning onto their own understanding, adding their own meanings to the Word of God, and will 99.9% of the time come up with a false doctrine via their own understanding.
God reveals to whom God reveals His Truths to.
What motivates the act of doing good for an unbeliever?
Pride, perhaps it helps them feel better about themselves or, they wanted recognition for the good act, or for others to see they helped a lady across the street. Either way it comes down to pride which is sin. The believer does the act to bring glory to God, the holy Spirt leads them in doing this. Nevertheless, the believer can also do good things from selfish reasons as well, if they are walking in the flesh.
Grace and peace to you.
You do realize the the Lord chose Abraham right?
Genesis 12:1-2 And Yahweh said to Abram, “Go forth from your land, And from your kin And from your father’s house, To the land which I will show you; 2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
God also gave Abraham faith to do the things he did, that faith did not come from Abraham.
Do you see this?
DiscipleDave
Member
Are you saying it is NOT possible for a person to help someone in need, because they are in need?
Are you saying they ONLY help to be seen of others, or because of their own pride?
Mat_5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
So atheist love their own, is that a Good thing or an evil thing for them to do? If then they love their own, you claim that can only be done by pride, or doing it for recognition. Do you not understand your logic is flawed?
DiscipleDave
Member
Again this is yet another example of you generalizing your statements. Are you now teaching that all pride is a sin?
Granted Pride in one's self, is evil. But if a person has pride for another, this is not an evil pride.
For example, having pride in another who has done something very good. Having pride in a child of yours who worked hard to get Straight "A"s. Pride in another who does well in a sporting event, and the list can go on and on.
Verses in the Bible that God hates pride, is always about how one feels about SELF. Or even as a Whole, how that Whole feels about itself. Such as the pride of Israel, because the whole felt that pride about SELF. Or if Pentacostals feel they are better than all the others, they take thought that SELF is better. Or Calvinist who believe they are Right, and everyone else is Wrong, is a form of SELF PRIDE.
The Word of God is Right, everything else is lies.
Is it evil if i take Pride in the Word of God? Is it evil if i take Pride in the one i worship, whose name is Jesus? It is sinful if i have PRIDE in an Awesome God that i serve? These things are not evil to do.
Pride in SELF is evil, and God hates.
DiscipleDave
Member
Yes, But knew He made the RIGHT Choice, when Abraham was going to obey Him and sacrifice His son. ONLY THEN did He realize, He made the RIGHT CHOICE by choosing Abraham.
This clearly reveals, you have no clue what FAITH actually is.
Heb_11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The dictionary defines faith as “belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof.”
God does NOT give anyone FAITH. Faith is a result of believing. Once a person believes, they gain Faith in that which they believe in.
All living humans on this planet is here to be TESTED, FAITH is a HUGE part of that TESTING. If God gives someone FAITH, He cheats on the very TEST He set up.
What then? Do you think God will reveal Himself to those who have ZERO FAITH. No, He will NOT!
God does not give FAITH to anyone. God would have never even spoken to Abraham, if Abraham did not believe in a God FIRST, Have FAITH in a GOD FIRST. God only spoke to Abraham, because He already Had FAITH in a GOD, without God ever giving it to him. You do error thinking God gave Abraham FAITH, He did no such thing.
i do not see as you do, no.
I am saying their is no one who is good.
Rom 3:9-19 What then? Are we better? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; 12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME WORTHLESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.” 13 “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN TOMB, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,” “THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”; 14 “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”; 15 “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, 16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, 17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.” 18 “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can know it?
Isaiah 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, carry us away.
Grace and peace to you
Where does it say this?
You say it,scripture does not say it, or teach it.
Robert Pate
Member
Scripture doesn't have to teach that, its common sense.
An argument from silence says nothing.