Calvin's Reprobation the concomitant of Election error

[Alfred Persson]

(Reprobation the concomitant of election and an act of God’s will, 1–3)
1. Election—but no reprobation?
Now when human understanding hears these things, its insolence is so irrepressible that it breaks forth into random and immoderate tumult as if at the blast of a battle trumpet.
Indeed many, as if they wished to avert a reproach from God, accept election in such terms as to deny that anyone is condemned. But they do this very ignorantly and childishly, since election itself could not stand except as set over against reprobation. God is said to set apart those whom he adopts into salvation; it will be highly absurd to say that others acquire by chance or obtain by their own effort what election alone confers on a few. Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.-Calvin, J. (2011). Institutes of the Christian Religion & 2 (J. T. McNeill, Ed.; F. L. Battles, Trans.; Vol. 1, p. 947). Westminster John Knox Press.


John Calvin "absurdity" is Paul's reason to break out in praise of God. Joining the Elect are those saved by the deliverer who comes out of Zion, to join the Elect and be Israel's "fullness." Together with the Gentiles, these are "all Israel":

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
...
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
...
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 "For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor?"
35 "Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?"
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (Rom. 11:7-36 NKJ)

Do the math. In verse seven the Elect obtained salvation, the rest of Israel were blinded, but later saved by Christ. They plus the Gentiles are the "fullness", "All Israel."

Therefore, Calvin was wrong, those who were not of the elect did acquire what Calvin thought impossible, what "election alone confers on a few." Clearly, God bestowed what election confers, "on the fulness" so all Israel would be saved.

Christ also taught the binary path to salvation, in the judgment of the Sheep and Goats (Christendom from all the nations), Christ's "brethren" (the Elect) are seated with Him as He judges these members of Christendom who failed to commit to Christ before He came. Judgment begins first with the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17):

33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand,`Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 `for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 `I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying,`Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 `When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 `Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "And the King will answer and say to them,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' (Matt. 25:33-40 NKJ)

Therefore, Reprobation is not the concomitant of election. God's Election of some did not close the door on others who would repent, and believe if given a chance.

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[Who Me]

You know all I see is God being glorified because it is God who saves, not man by his will or effort.
Calvin was a man, a sinner saved by grace, who dedicated his life to serve God.
One may not like him, or agree with him, but one cannot deny his zeal and dedication to serve God.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You know all I see is God being glorified because it is God who saves, not man by his will or effort.
Calvin was a man, a sinner saved by grace, who dedicated his life to serve God.
One may not like him, or agree with him, but one cannot deny his zeal and dedication to serve God.

God is not glorified by the doctrine of Reprobation:

Horrible decree An expression used by some, including Calvin himself, of the doctrine of reprobation—that is, the doctrine that God predestined some to eternal damnation.-Erickson, M. J. (2001). In The concise dictionary of Christian theology (Rev. ed., 1st Crossway ed., p. 92). Crossway Books.

I didn't comment on his life, only the presumption all not elected, are thereby reprobated. Every commentator knows Christ taught the Sheep were saved even though they were not believers in Christ. Then every commentator evades with theories how that can happen, to maintain the binary division of humanity.

It glorifies Christ we follow His thought on the subject, not the theories of men.

 

[Who Me]

God is not glorified by the doctrine of Reprobation:

Horrible decree An expression used by some, including Calvin himself, of the doctrine of reprobation—that is, the doctrine that God predestined some to eternal damnation.-Erickson, M. J. (2001). In The concise dictionary of Christian theology (Rev. ed., 1st Crossway ed., p. 92). Crossway Books.

I didn't comment on his life, only the presumption all not elected, are thereby reprobated. Every commentator knows Christ taught the Sheep were saved even though they were not believers in Christ. Then every commentator evades with theories how that can happen, to maintain the binary division of humanity.

It glorifies Christ we follow His thought on the subject, not the theories of men.

 

[Who Me]

It glorifies Christ we follow His thought on the subject, not the theories of men

Yes the ideas of men are fallible, as you show by selectively quoting matt 25, you missed:-
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes the ideas of men are fallible, as you show by selectively quoting matt 25, you missed:-
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I didn't miss anything. The phrase "all the nations" could refer to all the nations of the earth, or all Christians of the nations of the earth. This is NOT the Great White Throne Judgment after the millennial reign of Christ, its when Christ appears on earth with His angels after destroying the Beasts armies at Armageddon.

Seated with Christ are "these my brethren" (cp. Rom. 8:29) whom He points to when speaking to both the sheep and goats, and they are being judged regarding their response to the need of these Christians.

Christ called His people "Sheep", not unbelievers of the nations. Peter said judgment would start first with the house of God. Some early church fathers interpreted this parable the same way as they did the virgins waiting for the Bridegroom, or the servants of the master. The "nations" are "believers of the nations", not unbelievers.

That makes sense. The world isn't judged on how well they treated Christians, but on whether they believe in Christ. Here the judgment is how they treated Christians. In other words, these are members of Christendom who weren't raptured because they hadn't committed to Christ. "The Sheep" helped Christians in their time of need during the reign of the Antichrist Beast, the Goats did not.

That fits the chronology of the end time. It also explains Christ's wording, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". That cannot be said to unbelievers, only believers.

So this isn't a judgment of all nations, its a judgment of Christendom from all nations, and they are being judged for how they responded to the Gospel of Christ in regards to the true believers among them.

If, after all this, we cannot suppose that a judgment of non-Christians is here meant, we may even go still further, and say that non-Christians are not included at all, and so we must also reject the view usually adopted, since Chrysostom and Augustine, that what is here exhibited is a judgment of all men, believers and unbelievers alike. For, so far from the mention of the divine ἐκλογή, ver. 34, or the idea of the δίκαιοι, ver. 37, or what Jesus says at ver. 35, or the answer of those assembled before the Judge, vv. 37 and 44, or the entire omission generally of any distinction between belief and unbelief, harmonizing with the notion of a mixed body consisting of Christians and non-Christians, they entirely exclude the latter. We should therefore return to the very old view (Lactantius, Instit. vii. 20; Jerome, Euthymius Zigabenus), which, though it had been neglected in consequence of the prevalent eschatology, was preserved by Grotius, the view, namely, that what Jesus is here depicting is the judgment of Christians: περὶ τῶν Χριστιανῶν δὲ μόνων ὁ λόγος ἐνταῦθα, Euthymius Zigabenus, who proves this, above all, from vv. 35, 36. All the points previously adduced as arguments against the other explanations combine to favour this view.-Meyer, H. A. W. (1884). Critical and Exegetical Handbook to the Gospel of Matthew (W. Stewart, Ed.; P. Christie, Trans.; Vol. 2, pp. 178–179). T&T Clark.

This explains why the sheep immediately join Christ's "brethren" and enter the kingdom, but the goats are cast into the eternal fire, BEFORE Judgment Day.

The rest of surviving humanity, who weren't gathered by Christ's angels and cast into the fire because they were wicked or followers of the Beast, then enter Christ's millennial kingdom where they are evangelized by the Kings and Priests of Christ, Christians.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Could it be that you are misinterpreting who the sheep that had gone astray was Alfred Persson?

Matthew 18:11-13 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Jesus tells us why He is here, "to save that which was lost." The 99 were safe. Who do we know is safe? The children of Israel. But what about the one that is not present?

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The children of Israel are given special dispensation. Then the lost one is not directly a part of this dispensation. Who could it be

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I am so glad Paul put it that way. If we are joint-heirs with Christ, then by that definition we are adopted sons and daughters of Israel. But the promise with Israel is a blood oath. How to remedy that with adopted children?

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Jesus came for us, the rest of the sinners not covered in the promise. We believers, are the lost sheep.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hey All,
Could it be that you are misinterpreting who the sheep that had gone astray was Alfred Persson?

Matthew 18:11-13 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Jesus tells us why He is here, "to save that which was lost." The 99 were safe. Who do we know is safe? The children of Israel. But what about the one that is not present?

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The children of Israel are given special dispensation. Then the lost one is not directly a part of this dispensation. Who could it be

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I am so glad Paul put it that way. If we are joint-heirs with Christ, then by that definition we are adopted sons and daughters of Israel. But the promise with Israel is a blood oath. How to remedy that with adopted children?

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Jesus came for us, the rest of the sinners not covered in the promise. We believers, are the lost sheep.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Not if we accept what the text implies.

Both sheep and goats are being judged by how charitable they were to Christ's "brethren," which Romans 8:29 calls the predestined Elect conformed to the image of Jesus.

They are seated with Christ, He must be pointing to them when He says "these my brethren."

The parables of the ten virgins are a judgment of Christendom, those who hear the gospel and do it and are found waiting for Christ, and those who don't.

Same with the servants of the Master, they symbolize the Church, the faithful and the one worthless servant who was not.

So context implies the Sheep and Goats are those preached to in all the nations, Christendom:

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28:19-20 NKJ)

 

[Fastfredy0]

John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].

 

[Alfred Persson]

John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].

Your point?

 

[Who Me]

So this isn't a judgment of all nations, its a judgment of Christendom from all nations

Matt 25:31,“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne"
That is Christ coming in judgement, his second coming.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Matt 25:31,“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne"
That is Christ coming in judgement, his second coming.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 "All the nations (1484 ἔθνος ethnos) will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matt. 25:31-33 NKJ)

1484 ἔθνος ethnos {eth'-nos}

Meaning: 1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human race 3) a race, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

Origin: probably from 1486; TDNT - 2:364,201; n n

Usage: AV - Gentiles 93, nation 64, heathen 5, people 2; 164-Strong-s

The English word "ethnic" is derived from the Greek word "ethnos" (ἔθνος). In ancient Greek, "ethnos" primarily referred to a multitude of people who share common characteristics, such as language, customs, or cultural traits.


Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians:

for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles (1484 ἔθνος ethnos); but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. (Gal. 2:12 NKJ)

When interpreting scripture context determines the meaning of a word or symbol. The Parable of the Ten Virgins (Mt. 25:1-13), the Servants of the Master (Mt. 25:14-30) are spoken to Christians as group:

"Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming. (Matt. 25:13 NKJ)

"All the nations" therefore is warning to Christians of the world what will happen when Christ and His angels arrive:

Notice Their final judgment is the same:

29 `For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.
30 `And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
...
46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt. 25:46 NKJ)
(Matt. 25:29-33, 46 NKJ)

17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Pet. 4:17-18 NKJ)


Christ sent the gospel out into the earth to make "disciples of all the nations", and now those who had heard the Gospel but didn't respond in time to be raptured with the church, are being judged.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations (1484 ἔθνος ethnos), baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt. 28:19 NKJ)

 

[Who Me]

Whether it is Jesus sitting in judgement over the ' church ' or the world, it is still Jesus on the day of judgement judging humanity.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Whether it is Jesus sitting in judgement over the ' church ' or the world, it is still Jesus on the day of judgement judging humanity.

Not at the Sheep and Goat Judgment, then Jesus judges members of Christendom who failed to become Christians before He arrives.

The events at the end time are linear.

Christ returns and the Judgment of the Sheep and Goats occurs. Simultaneously Christ angels are seizing all remaining followers of the Beast and evil people.

These have been judged already, fit for the fire:

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 13:36-42 NKJ)

After all who failed to respond to the Gospel of Christ are dealt with, the wicked are cast into the flame; the surviving billions of humanity enter the 1,000 year reign of Christ, to be evangelized by the church:

Christ's Kings and priests.

All Christians are symbolically martyrs, have died to sin and risen to life in Christ. They are "Christ's brethren" and have already passed from death into life and so are not judged. They are in the First Resurrection/gathering/ Rapture of the Church before Christ landed on earth:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6 NKJ)

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess. 4:14-18 NKJ)

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(1 Cor. 15:51-53 NKJ)

The survivors of humanity repopulate the earth and if they beginning sinning are cast into the lake of fire:

20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. (Isa. 65:20-21 NKJ)

Then Satan is released to test these survivors:

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:7-10 NKJ)

Then the Great White Throne Judgment of humanity begins, Hades emptied out and all not found in the Book of life cast into the lake of fire:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)

Then the New Heavens and New Earth are created, dissolving the old heavens and earth and New Jerusalem descends unto the earth and the former things will not come to mind, neither shall they come up into the heart. All things will be new, everything "restored" to what God intended exist when He created:

21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
(Rev. 21:1-7 NKJ)