[_ Old Earth _] Can atheistic evolution explain this?

[Late_Cretaceous]

http://www.siu.edu/~protocell/.

This is an interesting article about protocells and the origins of cellular life.

Remember, this work is compelling and interesting, but not necessarily accepted by all scientists. There are detractors and competing thoeries.

But that is how science works. It's a big debate, and often there are big egos invovled.

Sometimes promising ideas fall short of expectations. OThertimes, radical ideas are so out there that nobody accepts them at first (like plate techtonics) - then finally they are embraced.

It would be wrong to say that anybody "knows" how life started. It would be equally wrong to say that "we have no clue". I think we have a good idea (just like we have a good idea of how life was for people in the Roman Empire circa 100 ad, but we can never really know for sure)

 

[Simple Mind]

Just came back to check this thread after a while.

First only science which recreates stuff in the lab, then two different types of science, and now different ways of doing science. The last is something that i agree with, the former are incorrect.

I'm glad you agree two significantly different ways of doing science exist based on our earlier discussion. That's all I was trying to get agreement on. If calling that "2 types within science" or "2 types of science" gives you trouble, don't use those terms.

Looking forward to finding some time to look at ERVs in some detail.

Much blessings,
Lou

 

[jwu]

If calling that "2 types within science" or "2 types of science" gives you trouble, don't use those terms.

It wasn't me who began using these terms:

[quote:12a34]That'd disqualify all astronomy, most geology, a lot of physics and all forensics from being called science.

Not at all - much of astronomy and physics deals with theories about the present and not the past. Yes, there are two types of what we call "science" today - I'm just pushing for a distinction between the two. [/quote:12a34]
Your post from Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:28 pm, the first time that "two types of science" came up in this thread. And "two types of science" is clearly something else than "two ways of doing science".

Either way, i guess we can put this part of the discussion ad actam as a misunderstanding.

 

[Guest]

So, I'm watching an Animal Planet show, and learn about this remarkable parasite. Now, I'm not usually one to buy the arguments that animals are too complex to have evolved through simply natural selection, but this one is pushing it.


Dicrocoelium has perhaps the most complex
and fascinating life cycle of any parasite found in
domestic animals in Newfoundland and Labrador. The
adult flatworms are found in the bile ducts of the liver
of sheep, cattle, pigs, goats, rabbits, members of the
deer family and rarely in humans. Adults are
hermaphrodites, that is both male and female, and so
individuals can produce live eggs. The eggs pass
down the bile duct and into the intestines and out into
the environment in Jesus is Lord of all.

Snails eat the eggs which hatch and eventually
form cercaria. The cercaria live in the snail’s
respiratory chamber and are released to the
environment in slime balls. It normally takes three to
four months for the parasite to complete the snail
portion of its life cycle.

The slime balls are a favoured food of ants, and
once ingested the cercaria move to the abdomen of the
ant. One or two of these cercaria move to the ant’s
head and establish themselves in the brain. When
cercaria are present in the brain, ants which normally
move into their nests with cold temperatures will move
up to the tops of vegetation. The affected insects
clamp their jaws unto the plant and remain paralyzed
as long as the temperature stays below 20oC. The
parasite normally spends one to two months inside its
ant host.

The fact that infected ants tend to be at the top
of vegetation increases the chances that they will be
eaten by grazing sheep. Once the ants are eaten and
digested the parasite moves from the sheep’s intestines
up to the liver by way of the bile duct. About eleven
weeks after ingestion by the sheep, Dicrocoelium
develops into adults capable of laying eggs and starting
the cycle again.

life has had 3 billion years of trial and error evolution, that's a long time to develop even extremely complex characteristics.

 

[Guest]

So, I'm watching an Animal Planet show, and learn about this remarkable parasite. Now, I'm not usually one to buy the arguments that animals are too complex to have evolved through simply natural selection, but this one is pushing it.


Dicrocoelium has perhaps the most complex
and fascinating life cycle of any parasite found in
domestic animals in Newfoundland and Labrador. The
adult flatworms are found in the bile ducts of the liver
of sheep, cattle, pigs, goats, rabbits, members of the
deer family and rarely in humans. Adults are
hermaphrodites, that is both male and female, and so
individuals can produce live eggs. The eggs pass
down the bile duct and into the intestines and out into
the environment in Jesus is Lord of all.

Snails eat the eggs which hatch and eventually
form cercaria. The cercaria live in the snail’s
respiratory chamber and are released to the
environment in slime balls. It normally takes three to
four months for the parasite to complete the snail
portion of its life cycle.

The slime balls are a favoured food of ants, and
once ingested the cercaria move to the abdomen of the
ant. One or two of these cercaria move to the ant’s
head and establish themselves in the brain. When
cercaria are present in the brain, ants which normally
move into their nests with cold temperatures will move
up to the tops of vegetation. The affected insects
clamp their jaws unto the plant and remain paralyzed
as long as the temperature stays below 20oC. The
parasite normally spends one to two months inside its
ant host.

The fact that infected ants tend to be at the top
of vegetation increases the chances that they will be
eaten by grazing sheep. Once the ants are eaten and
digested the parasite moves from the sheep’s intestines
up to the liver by way of the bile duct. About eleven
weeks after ingestion by the sheep, Dicrocoelium
develops into adults capable of laying eggs and starting
the cycle again.

life has had 3 billion years of trial and error evolution, that's a long time to develop even extremely complex characteristics.

 

[Simple Mind]

life has had 3 billion years of trial and error evolution, that's a long time to develop even extremely complex characteristics.

Ahhh ... the "god" of evolution which explains everything that cannot be explained!

(Sorry, couldn't resist the perfect opportunity :-D )

Somewhat more seriously, is this not the same "a miracle happens here" argument Creationists are sometimes accused of? People even accuse Christians in general of this about the miracles in the Bible, except there were human eyewitnesses for those and there are none for how this world came to be.

Much blessings,
Lou

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Once again we see the flawed evolution = athiesm concept.

 

[Vanaka]

so far all we know is that a Human can live perfectly fine with out one, and that its only use is to catch foodstuffs and create apendecitius (sp)

I do agree however, Science usually always will find an answer, no matter how long it takes..

The appendix is your rebuttal?

It wasn't too long ago that people thought that there were dozens of vestigal organs and we have now found out their use.

Tonsals are just one that could be named.



I often wonder how an eye could "evolve" in segments. The odds that it could happen by mere chance are so overwhelming as to be impossible.

dudes, its just like the tonsils,

poeple thought those were usless, but now it turns out that they make a certain hormone that helps fight disease, now diseased tonsils are of no use, but still, they are usfull(nondiseased tonsils that is)

how do we know it is any diffrent with the apendix?