Can God break His Covenant ?

[Cornelius]

Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, Nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Psa 89:35 Once have I sworn by my holiness: I will not lie unto David:
Psa 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, And his throne as the sun before me.

When we look at this, we can think "no He cannot" but look who's "seed" endures forever. Its the seed of David. Now we know that this cannot be talking about physical seed, as in offspring, so its meaning is spiritual. The people who walk like David are is "seed" and they endure forever.

God does not break covenant, but we can break the Covenant and then He does not have to bring His part anymore.

Notice that He did not take Israel into the promised Land, because they broke covenant with Him, through unbelief.

Heb 3:7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
Heb 3:9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
Heb 3:11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:

Israel broke the covenant through their unbelief in what God promised. We too have a New Covenant with God that also depends on us believing God, so that we too can enter into His REST. (That means to stop relying on what you can do and believing God will do it through His power. ) No faith in the promises, makes us always run to what we know . We keep on placing our faith in men to make things happen for us, instead of believing that God will indeed perform a miracle for us. We then never enter into His rest.

So to be strong, and not weak in all things, means we are not in faith and we cannot enter the rest of God. He then does not have to honor His side of the Covenant, to bring the promise to pass for us.

 

[Cornelius]

We have a covenant of salvation.

Saved from the curse. That means, we have been saved from sickness, oppression, possession, lack, need and anything that is seen as a curse. The word we know as salvation, in the Greek is:

G4991
ÃÉÄηÃÂία
sÃ…ÂtÄ“ria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally): - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.
In fact, it means: All my needs have been met like a little baby.

So that is part of our Covenant. We have been totally saved.We do not see it, because of unbelief. We can see it, if we choose to start believing the gospel. We are actually living in the reality of this broken Covenant, because we seldom see God move in the reality of "soteria" and we have grown use to the excuses that men came up, trying to explain this non-reaction of God. We have tried to explain it in all manner of ways, but we refuse to believe that we are indeed the reason for this.

We have broken the Covenant, and now we expect God to still honor His part.

We are suppose to live in God's miraculous supply , but we do not. He wants to be our healer, He wants to supply ALL our needs, He wants to keep us from the curse, but cannot, until we mix faith with the promises. Most Christians do not know that the promises are the tools that we have received, so that we can live in the miraculous.

2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

 

[walter]

Jesus is the seed of David. This was a promise that the messiah would come in the line of David.

 

[follower of Christ]

Not sure if its relevant or not...

And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
(Zec 11:10-11 KJV)

Break/broken
H6565
פּרר
pârar
paw-rar'
A primitive root; to break up (usually figuratively, that is, to violate, frustrate): - X any ways, break (asunder), cast off, cause to cease, X clean, defeat, disannul, disappoint, dissolve, divide, make of none effect, fail, frustrate, bring (come) to nought, X utterly, make void.

Obviously the Jews had already broken the covenant...

.

 

[Cornelius]

Not sure if its relevant or not...

And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
(Zec 11:10-11 KJV)

Break/broken
H6565
פּרר
pârar
paw-rar'
A primitive root; to break up (usually figuratively, that is, to violate, frustrate): - X any ways, break (asunder), cast off, cause to cease, X clean, defeat, disannul, disappoint, dissolve, divide, make of none effect, fail, frustrate, bring (come) to nought, X utterly, make void.

Obviously the Jews had already broken the covenant...

.

LOL, you took the words right off my "copy/paste". I was going to post that scripture next.

Yes Israel already broke the covenant , so God did not have to fulfill His part.

We also see the broken covenant, in that Israel died in the desert and could not enter the land that was promised to them. God broke the promise and did not allow them to enter, because they were in unbelief. We know that they are a "type and shadow" of the church/believer and so we see that if we too move in unbelief, God has no obligation toward us keep His covenant of salvation.

 

[follower of Christ]

Not sure if its relevant or not...

And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
(Zec 11:10-11 KJV)

Break/broken
H6565
פּרר
pârar
paw-rar'
A primitive root; to break up (usually figuratively, that is, to violate, frustrate): - X any ways, break (asunder), cast off, cause to cease, X clean, defeat, disannul, disappoint, dissolve, divide, make of none effect, fail, frustrate, bring (come) to nought, X utterly, make void.

Obviously the Jews had already broken the covenant...

.

LOL, you took the words right off my "copy/paste". I was going to post that scripture next.

Yes Israel already broke the covenant , so God did not have to fulfill His part.

We also see the broken covenant, in that Israel died in the desert and could not enter the land that was promised to them. God broke the promise and did not allow them to enter, because they were in unbelief. We know that they are a "type and shadow" of the church/believer and so we see that if we too move in unbelief, God has no obligation toward us keep His covenant of salvation.

Sorry :D

I hear so often in the MDR arena that God doesnt 'break' (end, dissolve) His covenants and so Zechariah there is something I end up having to bring to bear often. I didnt know if it was the direction you wanted to go in with this thread or not

 

[Sinthesis]

Not sure if its relevant or not...

And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
(Zec 11:10-11 KJV)

Break/broken
H6565
פּרר
pârar
paw-rar'
A primitive root; to break up (usually figuratively, that is, to violate, frustrate): - X any ways, break (asunder), cast off, cause to cease, X clean, defeat, disannul, disappoint, dissolve, divide, make of none effect, fail, frustrate, bring (come) to nought, X utterly, make void.

Obviously the Jews had already broken the covenant...

.

God even gave them one last chance to repent in the form of John the Baptist.

"Beauty" represents Messiah, whose Word was believed by those 'poor' that felt they had nothing to lose in this world, but everything to gain in the next.

 

[Cornelius]

Sorry :D

I hear so often in the MDR arena that God doesnt 'break' (end, dissolve) His covenants and so Zechariah there is something I end up having to bring to bear often. I didnt know if it was the direction you wanted to go in with this thread or not

Yes the direction is fine. I thought about this, because of the OSAS thread. People think that God is tied to His promise or covenant of salvation and that we can now do as we please and God is stuck with us.

They think because they are "sealed" that God cannot "unseal" them, if they move outside the parameters or conditions of salvation. People think that salvation has only one condition and that is "believing in Jesus". They think, because "nothing can take them out of His hand" that they themselves cannot get "out of His hand" . They think that they can live a fruitless life and still get to go to heaven.


In short, they think like Israel thought ! But Israel thought wrong, they got left out in the desert to die. None except Joshua and Caleb entered. All those who were promised that they are going to the promise land, did not get "saved" at all. They died.

The Bible tells us they are our example, so we are to learn from them. We too have been promised a "land" . Our salvation from "Egypt" must bring us to the land (eternal life) but if we too, walk in unbelief regarding the promises of God, then we too will "die in the desert"

Does not really matter what the churches teach us, we will still die. God is not moved by human doctrine.

 

[Sparkey]

Can God break His Covenant?

Can God break THE Covenant that was established?
It was established between God and Men - it is as much ours as it is His, yes?

Mitzvah; Mitzvot:[/size] (lit. “commandmentâ€Â); religious precept;
Mitzvah stems from the root tzavta meaning: attachment
The mitzvah creating a bond between God who commands and man who performs.

Can God break the "BOND"?? He came pretty close to it in Noah's Day!
Can He? Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
I think that although the Lord can (and in some cases both has and will) it is like what Cornelius said - Man breaks the agreement. The breech of contract lawsuit (if there is to be one) is against man, not our Holy God in any way, shape or form. My prayer for each is that the Lord consider "His Namesake" as Moses has first argued. Each time mankind has broken the covenant, God is able to declare that "his side of the deal" is no longer binding on Him because the agreement is broken.

"Bar" means "Son" in Aramaic and "Bar Mitzvah" literally means "Son of the Commandment". Of course a "Bat Mitzvah" also means "Daughter of the Commandment" too. The age of 12 is the time of Jewish accountability and after that time children are accountable to their word.

I like what Yahweh said about "His side" of the deal < and the comment about His staff, Beauty too > :

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, "The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?" thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.

Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Did He mention captivity turning (returning back) ??

When the LORD turned again the captivity of Zion, we were like them that dream.
Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: then said they among the heathen, The LORD hath done great things for them. The LORD hath done great things for us; whereof we are glad. Turn again our captivity, O LORD, as the streams in the south.
They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

What was said about man's side?
Amongst many other truths about such things we see:

This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the LORD; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood.
Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.
I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remain no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Our Jewish friends have defined "mitzvot / mitzvah" to mean creating a bond between God who commands and man who performs. What I see is that it is God who performs in all! --and that through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thanks, you guys, for this thread and for the comments here!
Hoping that this (my posting) too is brought within the intent and spirit of the topic.

~Sparrow

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes the direction is fine. I thought about this, because of the OSAS thread. People think that God is tied to His promise or covenant of salvation and that we can now do as we please and God is stuck with us.

They think because they are "sealed" that God cannot "unseal" them, if they move outside the parameters or conditions of salvation. People think that salvation has only one condition and that is "believing in Jesus". They think, because "nothing can take them out of His hand" that they themselves cannot get "out of His hand" . They think that they can live a fruitless life and still get to go to heaven.

I agree.
That is a very definite problem with this teaching.
They also forget that God can keep His covenant to the faithful while casting out the individual apostate.

In short, they think like Israel thought ! But Israel thought wrong, they got left out in the desert to die. None except Joshua and Caleb entered. All those who were promised that they are going to the promise land, did not get "saved" at all. They died.

Absolutely.
Wandering 40 years in the desert until most of that generation was dead.