Can I 'KNOW' or is 'BELIEF' all that is possible?

[theothertexasrich]

Sometimes I drive around (I drive for a living) and ponder the depth of my faith in Jesus. Often, this thought process ends up at the same conundrum: Do I KNOW that Jesus is God, or do I just BELIEVE that he is?

My belief is deep. I truly believe that Jesus is the son of God and that I will see him in heaven someday. I like to think that I KNOW this to be the case, but do I really? Can I claim to know? Or is belief all that we are capable of? If so, is claiming to know wrong?

 

[Tina]

.

All you need is a mustard seed of faith ......... :halo

It doesn't matter whether you KNOW that you BELIEVE .. or BELIEVE that you KNOW ... :biglol

 

[follower of Christ]

I do understand that questioning from time to time...its only human.
But faith, true faith, comes from God who has given us all a portion of faith.
Our human fallibility and finite understanding certainly will cause us to question and even doubt from time to time, no doubt about it, but at some point in a believers life they should have grown enough with the Lord that the doubt is gone or at least easily overcome if it does show up. Even when those questions come up because of our flesh or the enemy, we should be able to KNOW in our Spirit that He is.

If we cant know that He is and that He has prepared a place for us, then whats the point ?
How can we truly put our TRUST in something we're not really sure is real ?

If so, is claiming to know wrong?

When someone can show me from Gods word that it is wrong to KNOW that He is, then I'll believe it.

 

[JoJo]

I think that to believe is to know with all your heart that what you believe in is true.

(if you understood that than because I think I just confused myself lol)

 

[Solo]

• 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
  John 20:28-29
  
  13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
  Matthew 16:13-17
  
  16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
  John 14:16-18

 

[Godfrey]

Hi Rich

As you drive around, you must pass road signs showing you the layout of an interchange up ahead. From the moment you see it, you can accurately describe the interchange, you know what it is like - but of course you haven't actually reached it yet. When you do, it is just as you thought, the words you use to describe it are unchanged - but you are really there.

It seems to me that that is the way things are sometimes in our Christian walk. There are things we believe are true, and know about - and then one day, click, it becomes real in our experience by revelation.

So our first step is to seek from God a knowledge that comes by revelation -- a revelation,
that is to say, not of ourselves but of the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross.
When Hudson Taylor, the founder of the China Inland Mission, entered into the normal
Christian life it was thus that he did so. You remember how he tells of his long-standing
problem of how to live `in Christ', how to draw the sap out of the Vine into himself. For he
knew that he must have the life of Christ flowing out through him and yet felt that he had not
got it, and he saw clearly enough that his need was to be found in Christ. `I knew', he said,
writing to his sister from Chinkiang in 1869, `that if only I could abide in Christ, all would be
well, but I could not.'
The more he tried to get in the more he found himself slipping out, so to speak, until one
day light dawned, revelation came and he saw.
`Here, I feel, is the secret: not asking how I am to get sap out of the Vine into myself, but
remembering that Jesus is the Vine -- the root, stem, branches, twigs, leaves, flowers, fruit, all
indeed ... I have not got to make myself a branch. The Lord Jesus tells me I am a branch. I am part of
Him and I have just to believe it and act upon it. I have seen it long enough in the Bible, but I
believe it now as a living reality.'
It was as though something which had indeed been true all the time had now suddenly
become true in a new way to him personally, and he writes to his sister again:
`I do not know how far I may be able to make myself intelligible about it, for there is nothing
new or strange or wonderful -- and yet, all is new! In a word, "whereas once I was blind, now
I see"....I am dead and buried with Christ -- aye, and risen too and ascended....God reckons
me so, and tells me to reckon myself so. He knows best....Oh, the joy of seeing this truth -- I
do pray that the eyes of your understanding may be enlightened, that you may know and enjoy
the riches freely given us in Christ.'
- Watchman Nee, The Normal Christian Life

HTH

 

[AAA]

Do I KNOW that Jesus is God, or do I just BELIEVE that he is?

As an atheist, my comments probably seem inappropriate in this thread. I'm quite sure that they will provide an under-represented perspective on this question.

I will just say that whenever I discuss what believers believe, the discussion always ends up with the believer identifying their "leap of faith".

To me, it is impossible to claim that one "knows" something when a leap of faith is required.

I also think that when someone "knows" something, that means that they are in a position to say that what they "know" to be real or true could actually be false if different conditions or evidence were available. There is basically no way that one could falsify the notion that Jesus is God.

Accordingly, I don't think its possible to be intellectually honest, and say that you know that Jesus is god.

As someone who is not a Christian, I think that the statement, "I know that Jesus is god" is incredibly arrogant.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Do I KNOW that Jesus is God, or do I just BELIEVE that he is?

As an atheist, my comments probably seem inappropriate in this thread. I'm quite sure that they will provide an under-represented perspective on this question.

I will just say that whenever I discuss what believers believe, the discussion always ends up with the believer identifying their "leap of faith".

To me, it is impossible to claim that one "knows" something when a leap of faith is required.

I also think that when someone "knows" something, that means that they are in a position to say that what they "know" to be real or true could actually be false if different conditions or evidence were available. There is basically no way that one could falsify the notion that Jesus is God.

Accordingly, I don't think its possible to be intellectually honest, and say that you know that Jesus is god.

As someone who is not a Christian, I think that the statement, "I know that Jesus is god" is incredibly arrogant.

I agree for the most part. I have a strong belief in Christ and God but I do not know beyond the shadow of a doubt. All believers find themselves in periods of doubt as well which is completely normal.

I would extend this a bit. I liken what I read above with some other statement being ignorant. I "know" that there is not a God" or "I know that evolution is a fact" as both being ignorant as well. Noone knows these things. It's all about belief at this point and what we use to discern that belief that is relevant.

 

[Steve76]

I am not bragging here as this actually happened to me in April this year and I would like to share it on this post..

I met Jesus Christ in my bedroom after being haunted by a demon. I did not believe in Him until it came to a point when this demon was really bugging me and I searched the net for advice because I thought I was going crazy!
I got led to a prayer to Jesus because He used to cast out demons. I thought it was a long shot but I sincerely prayed and cried out to Him for help. That night as the demon appeared again, tormenting me again, Jesus appeared and peeled it out of me and we had a conversation. You can read it all on my Testimony towards the bottom of my blog if you like, I don't mind, it's there to be shared!
Now, Jesus said something like this to His disciples;

'Blessed are those who believe in me yet have not seen me'..

I feel so blessed to have had my meeting with Christ but imagine how blessed you are for having faith in Him and have yet to meet Him!
:yes

Is Jesus Christ the Son of God? Oh Yes, I do believe, and so should you...but you have a choice and we were not created to be forced to believe or love our Creator, He did not make us as robots, we are much much more special than that.. :amen


http://getwiththeword.blogspot.com/

 

[mutzrein]

I am not bragging here as this actually happened to me in April this year and I would like to share it on this post..

I met Jesus Christ in my bedroom after being haunted by a demon. I did not believe in Him until it came to a point when this demon was really bugging me and I searched the net for advice because I thought I was going crazy!
I got led to a prayer to Jesus because He used to cast out demons. I thought it was a long shot but I sincerely prayed and cried out to Him for help. That night as the demon appeared again, tormenting me again, Jesus appeared and peeled it out of me and we had a conversation. You can read it all on my Testimony towards the bottom of my blog if you like, I don't mind, it's there to be shared!
Now, Jesus said something like this to His disciples;

'Blessed are those who believe in me yet have not seen me'..

I feel so blessed to have had my meeting with Christ but imagine how blessed you are for having faith in Him and have yet to meet Him!
:yes

Is Jesus Christ the Son of God? Oh Yes, I do believe, and so should you...but you have a choice and we were not created to be forced to believe or love our Creator, He did not make us as robots, we are much much more special than that.. :amen


http://getwiththeword.blogspot.com/

Thanks for your post - I also believe that God did not make us as robots. Why? Because those who know God are born of His Spirit.

 

[stranger]

Sometimes I drive around (I drive for a living) and ponder the depth of my faith in Jesus. Often, this thought process ends up at the same conundrum: Do I KNOW that Jesus is God, or do I just BELIEVE that he is?

My belief is deep. I truly believe that Jesus is the son of God and that I will see him in heaven someday. I like to think that I KNOW this to be the case, but do I really? Can I claim to know? Or is belief all that we are capable of? If so, is claiming to know wrong?

hi theothertexasrich,

Interesting question that can get a little philosophical.. I can believe in something - but my beliefs doesn't make it true. For example, I believe Mexico lies north of the US or I believe Mexico lies south of the US. In either case Mexico is where it is in relation to the US regardless of what I believe. Believing does have an affect on the person believing as the belief can be true or false

I would say that belief is not all we are capable of. In His rest I knew 100% that I was saved. Outside of His rest - that knowledge is plagued by doubts.

blessings

 

[mutzrein]

You guys seems to be talking about 'knowing' and 'believing' from an intellectual perpsective. Man can 'believe' in God because he is merely assenting to the fact that God exists, but one cannot 'know' God unless he is His child - ie born of His Spirit. There is no doubt in this 'knowing'.

 

[Joe67]

Rich,

The following Scripture has helped me in this question.

Phil 3:8-11
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. KJV

It is not only the journey through faith.
It is also the destination by grace.

Joe

 

[dp19032k9]

Yes, it is possible to know without any doubt whatsoever that God is and that you belong to Him. I had a written a post and it got wiped out, so I won't go into so much detail. I will say that I went from faith to knowing in April, 1972. It was an unbelievable experience. I was in a lot of emotional pain and had gone to a place to pray. As I started to pray, God filled by being with His Presence. With this filling came intense emotions of unconditional love, peace, security, and the strongest sense of well being. I returned home and slept very well that night. The next night I returned to pray for another college student by the name of Jim who I had witnessed to several weeks before. As I prayed for his salvation, God communicated to me through His Spirit that Jim was going to be saved. I had never experienced God speaking to me in such a clear manner before. This experience of God's Presence lasted 3 days and then it left as quickly as it had come.

The summer came and went and I returned to college for the fall semester. Upon entering the boys dorm to sign in someone said my name in a low voice. It was Jim. He had been saved over the summer and wanted to get into Bible study. We became friends, prayed together, did Bible study together, witnessed together. Jim graduated that semester. The last time I saw him was in 1980.

I never had any scriptural reference for what had happened until the mid 1990's. While doing Bible study in the NIV and Amplified versions, I came across Ephesians 3:19 in the Amplified. It precisley describes what I had experienced.

Ephesians 3:19 [Amplified]
[ That you may really come] to know--practically, through experience for yourselves--the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge (without experience); that you may be filled (through all your being) unto all the fullness of God--[that is] may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself!

When this happens to a person you know without a doubt that God is. I don't know that this happens to a lot of people, but it did happen to me. Faith is the vehicle through which God reveals Himself to believers. Hebrews 11:6, you must believe that He is and that he rewards those who seek Him. For me it was an extensive ordeal through which this experience came, but a spiritual entity other than myself showed up and revealed HImself in a powerful way to me.

The scripture says to "be still and know that I am God". I believe that a sense of God's Presence that is less intense is the experience of many believers. I have also experienced this over an extended period of time. For me it came through seeking Him during my Quiettimes.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

'Know'' is a very interesting word as well as 'fact' and 'evidence'

If Jesus speaks to your heart that is all you really need isn't it? You don't need some big bucket of proof to show off to the world.