Can someone tell me what these verses mean please?

[Maku]

3The angel said, `Do not hurt the earth, the sea, or the trees until we have put a mark on the foreheads of God's servants.'

4And I heard that one hundred and forty-four thousand people were marked. They were from every tribe of Israel.

5-8welve thousand people were marked from each of these tribes: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin .


Does that mean that only 140,000 people will be saved?! :-?

 

[ChristineES]

Revelation is almost beyond my understanding. From what I have heard, those are the Jews who are saved. They are the chosen. Christians are called. The 144,000 are probably the ruling class or whatever.
I am sure there are some who can explain it better, but I thought I would give it a stab. :o

 

[Vic C.]

3The angel said, `Do not hurt the earth, the sea, or the trees until we have put a mark on the foreheads of God's servants.'

4And I heard that one hundred and forty-four thousand people were marked. They were from every tribe of Israel.

5-8welve thousand people were marked from each of these tribes: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin .


Does that mean that only 140,000 people will be saved?! :-?

The Jehovah Witnesses believe they are the only ones to enter Heaven. That's not what the Bible teaches though. They are chosen and sealed for specific reasons. God must choose them because HE knows they are worthy of evangelizing during the Tribulation and Wrath of God. They are sealed for their protection during these events.

The ultimate fate of these 144,000 is not absolutely clear and is debated. We do know this:

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

and this:

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

They are Jewish and the servants of God, not saved Christians.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

This is the key verse; they STOOD before the Throne and their nunber is a great multitude. Since the Throne is in Heaven, we have to believe the mreat multitude is in Heaven too, They are the saved ones (the dead in Christ) who come out of the Tribulation (the persecution of the Antichrist) and the Rapture. (those who are alive)

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hope that helps.

 

[stovebolts]

Vic,

You know that I stay clear of end times, but I do have a question (that I don't' want to debate, it's just a question because Dr. Kroll was speaking this morning about this very subject)

Here's a transcript from this mornings broadcast
http://backtothebible.org/broadcasts/radio/today.php
OR
You can go here and click on the Audio link
http://backtothebible.org/

This is kinda what I got from it as it pertains to your post in regard to not really knowing what happened to them.

In Revelation 14, we find those 144,000 once again in heaven singing a new song. The song is for the 144,000 only as nobody else is allowed to sing it.

The last time we saw the 144,000, they were fleeing into the wilderness being persecuted. Now, The bible is not clear what happened to these people (It's the Jews, NOT the jw's :-? ) between fleeing the persecution and the time we find them again in heaven. I don't know, maybe they were martyred? Maybe God swept them up in a whirlwind? I don't really know but I'm betting that the 144,000 fleeing are the same 144,000 singing the new song that only they could sing.

So, why could thy only sing it? Probably because they are the ones that have been redeemed in that particular manner. Example, if I experience something, then I can give thanks to God for that experience. If you have not experienced something, it would be hard, if not impossible for you to give the same thanks. Therefore, the 144,000 are singing a song that only they can sing since they were the ones that went through the tribulation.

 

[Maku]

Cool thanks guys/ladies. See ya in heaven sometime! I'll be the one with my own pond with an alligator named Henry!

 

[stovebolts]

Cool thanks guys/ladies. See ya in heaven sometime! I'll be the one with my own pond with an alligator named Henry!

Ya know, I'm really feeling stupid : I have absolutly no idea what that means :-?

 

[Maku]

Cool thanks guys/ladies. See ya in heaven sometime! I'll be the one with my own pond with an alligator named Henry!

Ya know, I'm really feeling stupid : I have absolutly no idea what that means :-?

I'll see you guys in heaven, my name is Scott. I'll be somewhere in heaven with a pond and an alligator in my pond, his name will be Henry. All my other animals will be hanging out as well.

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Jeff, thanks for taking the time out to read my post and ask questions. I will answer them to the best of my ability and will look at the links during my lunch break. Also, please don't read anything into my tone of writing. No intentions to make this a debate or argument, I assure you.

...This is kinda what I got from it as it pertains to your post in regard to not really knowing what happened to them.

In Revelation 14, we find those 144,000 once again in heaven singing a new song. The song is for the 144,000 only as nobody else is allowed to sing it.

Read the verse again and notice they are on Mt. Zion with The Lamb.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

John is back on Earth at this time. We know this because of the following verse.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

They are gathered with Christ at Mt. Zion because this is where they will reign over all the Earth during the Millennium. They aren't in Heaven.

The last time we saw the 144,000, they were fleeing into the wilderness being persecuted. Now, The bible is not clear what happened to these people (It's the Jews, NOT the jw's :-? )

I'm confused. I never said they were JW's. I said the JW's think only the 144,000 will be in Heaven. Also, nowhere does it say they flee into the wilderness. Think about it. They are sealed for protection. No need to run and hide. Hiding would defeat their mission to witness throughout the Trib and Wrath.

Therefore, the 144,000 are singing a song that only they can sing since they were the ones that went through the tribulation.

Absolutely! Though there will be a lot who make it through the Trib and Wrath. They (the 144,000) could also be praising God for all the souls that were saved during the Trib and Wrath. The Lord gives us a glimpse of this time in Matthew 25:31-46.

The sheep are the ones saved during the Wrath. They are rewarded for how they treated God's Chosen ones during their time of distress during the Wrath. The goats... :o

There are some who believe the 144,000 in Rev 7:4 and Rev 14:1 are two different groups. I don't.

Peace,
Vic

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks Vic,

I've got two other irons in the fire at the moment. I definatly want to get back to this one!

I too was curious about Dr. Krolls statment that the 144000 were wandering the wilderness.... Let me check into that.

BTW, Thanks for your other questions.

Jeff

 

[Vic C.]

Not a problem Jeff. Just remember; nothing I say here is 100%. I urge anyone who is interested in End Times to search the Scriptures and reconcile things as they are led.

I too was curious about Dr. Krolls statment that the 144000 were wandering the wilderness.... Let me check into that.

Many who teach End Times connect the 144,000 to the ones in Revelation ch. 12. My concern is... why run and hide? They are sealed and have a specific purpose in latter times; a purpose that can't be accomplished if you're in hiding in the wilderness. It's highly possible that one of their purposes are to lead other believing Jews to safety.

Another assumption Wood makes is that the Seals are part of God's judgement; this is not really established when one reads Revelation 5 and 6 objectively. (at least the first five seals anyway) This is another topic in itself.

If this is of interest to you, see here:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=23510

Peace,
Vic

 

[Vic C.]

I forgot to mention this. I was lying in bed this morning and this came to me:

The 144,000 were the only ones who were able to learn the song, meaning to learn one must be taught. Who was doing the teaching? I think the answer is in tha passage also. It stands to reason (IMO) that whoever was teaching them the song were the ones singing it. Could it be the "voice of many waters" who were singing? 8-)