Can there be a greatest truth for God?

[eric h]

Can the greatest commandments have a greatest meaning for Jesus?


Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.

Jesus loves all his neighbours as he loves himself.


Can Jesus the Son of God love us more than he loves himself?


Yes, because he died for us.

Maybe no, because he holds the power of heaven or hell over us.



What are your thoughts?

Blessings

Eric

 

[Nathan Alterton]

The love of God is an interesting thing, with various elements in tension with each other. We're told God loves the world so much that while we were sinners He sent His son to die for us, but also that He not only hates sin but hates the sinners. When we read the Old Testament, God destroys nations, including Israel, for extreme disobedience to Him but He is also extremely forgiving, refraining from judgment for generations and continually pleading with them to repent.

God is both just and mercyful, full of both grace and righteous anger. The Bible in John 1:14 says that Jesus was full of both grace and truth, two admirable qualities that we fallen men find virtually impossible to balance together in at the same time. We find it too easy to be truthful without any grace (just look at many "discussions" of doctrine on this and other forums for evidence of that) or we sacrifice truth when we focus on grace. God can hold both qualities together and exercise them perfectly at the same time.

 

[WIP]

hates the sinners

Could you show scripture to support this?

Thanks.

The reason I ask this is because I then have to wonder - if God hates sinners then why try to save them?

 

[Nathan Alterton]

Could you show scripture to support this?

Thanks.

The reason I ask this is because I then have to wonder - if God hates sinners then why try to save them?

Sure!

Leviticus 20:23
And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.

Psalm 5:5-6
The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;
you hate all evildoers.
You destroy those who speak lies;
the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous,
but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.

Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers.

Hosea 9:15
Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal;
there I began to hate them.
Because of the wickedness of their deeds
I will drive them out of my house.
I will love them no more;
all their princes are rebels.

I think that's enough to support the point.

That said, I would never say, as a simple, isolated, unequivocal statement that "God hates sinners." It's much more complicated than that. As you can see, the strongest of the statements come from Psalms and Proverbs and the last, from Hosea, are all in poetic verse. I think that most of these statements are actually hyperbolic, meant to communicate a point about the seriousness of sin and rebellion against the Lord. Like when Jesus says that whoever would follow him must hate is mother, father, spouse, children, etc. No one actually believes that Jesus is telling us to hate our closest family members, but that he's saying that as close as these people are to you, you should be that close again to me.

It's hyperbole, essentially exaggeration to make a point, commonly used as a teaching device in the ancient near east.

I think there are some ways in which God hates unrepentant sinners, but not in the way you might hate the school yard bully when you were young. Any "hate" he may have for such people is clearly tempered by his love for them. There are just as many verses that speak unhesitatingly about God's love sinners as there are that speak about his hate of sinners.

Like I said before, there are many aspects of the feelings of God toward the lost that seem to us to be in tension with each other.

 

[childeye]

The commandment to Love God with all heart mind and soul is the greatest Truth. As such, every lie ever invented was devised to thwart it's fullfillment. Hence we were lied to about God and did not glorify Him as He deserves. Distrust was the purpose of the lie.

Regarding God's Love for us, it is true He hates sinners but yet this is also His Love. Sin harms all that constitutes Love between all mankind. We see in Job that Satan plays God against man and man against God questioning the righteousness of both. We must remember that the Old Testament was administered by angels and there was no intercessor for man in heaven and Satan had no small place in the order in heaven. Upon Christ's sacrifice the order in heaven was changed and Satan the accuser was cast out. Hence the blood of Christ purged both things on earth and things in heaven. For Satan caused enmity between man and God, playing both sides against the middle.

 

[WIP]

Thanks, Nathan.