Can we know God? If so, how?

[Bruce.Leiter]

What does knowing God mean in the Bible? How can we grow in knowing God?

 

[miamited]

Hey Bruce.Leiter

That comes through spending time with Him and reading what He has given you to read about Him.

 

[electedbyHim]

Prayer, bible study, sermons, Theology, fellowship.

Someone might say direct revelation but that is not true.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Prayer, bible study, sermons, Theology, fellowship.

I agree.

Someone might say direct revelation but that is not true.

Why ?
Aren't prophesies direct revelations from God ?

 

[miamited]

Aren't prophesies direct revelations from God ?

In fact, Hopeful 2, I believe the entirety of the Scriptures is a direct revelation from God. That seems to be how Paul was explaining the 'oracles of God'. Men wrote the Scriptures as they were led by the Holy Spirit of God. Unless someone would consider direct revelation to be God actually speaking to them personally, as He did a couple of times speaking from the clouds to people surrounding Jesus' baptism and the transfiguration. And of course, when Moses was on the mount for 40 days he seems to claim to have been speaking directly to God and God speaking to him. Me, I consider that God speaking to the writers of the Scriptures through His Holy Spirit to be direct revelation at least to those men who wrote the Scriptures.

 

[Hopeful 2]

In fact, Hopeful 2, I believe the entirety of the Scriptures is a direct revelation from God. That seems to be how Paul was explaining the 'oracles of God'. Men wrote the Scriptures as they were led by the Holy Spirit of God. Unless someone would consider direct revelation to be God actually speaking to them personally, as He did a couple of times speaking from the clouds to people surrounding Jesus' baptism and the transfiguration. And of course, when Moses was on the mount for 40 days he seems to claim to have been speaking directly to God and God speaking to him. Me, I consider that God speaking to the writers of the Scriptures through His Holy Spirit to be direct revelation at least to those men who wrote the Scriptures.

I agree with that summation, but my point was that we can still receive revelations from God.
The gifts of prophesy, and the gift of the interpretation of tongues, can both reveal things directly from God.

 

[electedbyHim]

I agree.

Why ?
Aren't prophesies direct revelations from God ?

God does not give direct revelation today.

There is no proof of this, we have His written word and that is direct enough.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What does knowing God mean in the Bible? How can we grow in knowing God?

Through his son, Jesus, the only legitimate way to know God. That's the purpose of his incarnation. A magnanimous fireball in the sky is not knowable, a human being of humble origin is.

 

[JLB]

What does knowing God mean in the Bible? How can we grow in knowing God?

Knowing God is defined in scripture as an intimate relationship with Him, as a man and woman are one in intamacy.

Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” Luke 1:30-34

So knowing Him is being joined to Him as one.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


As we consecrate ourselves and set out to seek Him, we will grow in our sensitivity to His Presence; to His Voice.

 

[hawkman]

God does not give direct revelation today.

Would you consider a dream where you are shown your future and it comes to pass for you a direct revelation ? If answer is no what is your reasoning .

 

[JLB]

God does not give direct revelation today.

There is no proof of this, we have His written word and that is direct enough.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27


Hearing His voice is about as “direct revelation” as it gets.

 

[electedbyHim]

Would you consider a dream where you are shown your future and it comes to pass for you a direct revelation ? If answer is no what is your reasoning .

The thread is about Knowing God and I said He does not give direct revelation today.

To your question, I say no He does not.

Nevertheless, I am not God and He does as He pleases and I am no one to question Him.

My reasoning is below.

Sinful flesh influence dreams.

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can know it?

Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, But Yahweh directs his steps

God in His providence has decreed each individuals life from beginning to end(Psalm 139:16).

What would the point be, if God has already pre planned your steps in life, this is not compatible whith His decrees and divine providence in my opinion.

In my past experience with people, they put more energy in dreams than they do on God's written word. The satanic supernatural is very real and many get deceived by this.

But this is an entire different conversation.

Just my thoughts.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[hawkman]

The thread is about Knowing God and I said He does not give direct revelation today.

To your question, I say no He does not.

What is your definition of direct revelation ?

If God sent you a dream of your future that would be direct revelation . Do you agree ?

Sinful flesh influence dreams.

Is there a time in history when this was not true ?

 

[Tenchi]

What does knowing God mean in the Bible? How can we grow in knowing God?

Great question!

Knowing God and knowing about Him are different things, right? It's the difference between being an owner of, say, a cat and having only read books about them. The latter person may know far more factually-speaking about cats in general than the former, but the former person, who lives daily with a cat as their pet, has a personal experience of the animal called a "cat" that the book-expert on cats doesn't. A book on cats cannot impart to you what it is to be scratched by an angry cat, what it actually feels like, first-hand, to be clawed by one. A book on cats can't give you the experience of a cat rubbing its face and hindquarters against your leg or face. A book on cats can't make you understand what it actually feels like to have your cat lying on your chest purring as you stroke its fur. And so on.

When it comes to God, many Christians think "knowing God" is mostly - if not entirely - an academic thing, it's the business of collecting data, facts, about God. They recoil from the idea of a direct, concrete, personal experience/knowledge of God, fearing that "subjectivizing" God must necessarily lead to the demonic chaos of hyper-charismaticism. It's safer, theologically, to maintain an objective, academic distance from God. Among these type of Christian, the higher the academic credentials of the individual believer, the more spiritually-mature they are held to be. Of course, there is a steady stream of examples of the faultiness of this thinking: Steve Lawson, Ravi Zacharias, Robert Morris, Tony Evans, Terren Dames, etc.

In between this academic/institutional "knowing God" and the craziness of the hyper-sensual "knowing God" crowd, there is what the Bible actually describes of "knowing God." It is more properly described as "life in the Spirit":

- conviction (John 16:8; Revelation 2-3)
- illumination (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16)
- strengthening (Romans 8:13; Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 3:16; 6:10, etc.)
- comfort (2 Corinthians 1:3-5)
- transformation (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Galatians 5:22-23)
- glorification (John 16:14)

It is the experience of the life and work of the Holy Spirit described above that is how the Spirit "bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Romans 8:16). In this "witness," the Christian person comes to know God experientially, they enjoy fellowship with Him.

2 Corinthians 13:14
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

1 John 1:3
3 ...our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

See also: Psalm 23, Psalm 16:11; Psalm 36:7-9.

Sadly, horribly, what I have discovered in my work as a discipler of men in the Church is that they don't how to distinguish genuine life in the Spirit from their fleshly counterfeit of the same. And so, they are all going about trying to achieve by dint of their own will-power, intellect and physical strength what can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit. As you can imagine, these men are frustrated, exhausted and have lives filled with secret sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

God does not give direct revelation today.

There is no proof of this, we have His written word and that is direct enough.

Your supposition would make the gift of prophesy pointless.
I cannot agree with you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The thread is about Knowing God and I said He does not give direct revelation today.

To your question, I say no He does not.

Nevertheless, I am not God and He does as He pleases and I am no one to question Him.

My reasoning is below.

Sinful flesh influence dreams.

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can know it?

Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, But Yahweh directs his steps

God in His providence has decreed each individuals life from beginning to end(Psalm 139:16).

What would the point be, if God has already pre planned your steps in life, this is not compatible whith His decrees and divine providence in my opinion.

In my past experience with people, they put more energy in dreams than they do on God's written word. The satanic supernatural is very real and many get deceived by this.

But this is an entire different conversation.

Just my thoughts.

Grace and peace to you.

Good thing we have been enabled to crucify the flesh, with its vile affections and lusts...eh ? (Gal 5:24)

 

[Arial]

What does knowing God mean in the Bible? How can we grow in knowing God?

We know God only one way and that is through his own self revelation. And when I say God here, I mean the triune God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So if we want to know him, it is in his word we must look, and the more we look, the more we will see.

That does not mean we should never read or study the works of men who have been appointed and equipped by God for the task, (as opposed to the self appointed) but everything they put forth must be checked in the scriptures to see whether what they are teaching about God is the same thing God has to say about it.

 

[electedbyHim]

What is your definition of direct revelation ?

If God sent you a dream of your future that would be direct revelation . Do you agree ?


Is there a time in history when this was not true ?

What is your definition of direct revelation ?

Open and direct communication to a person from God

If God sent you a dream of your future that would be direct revelation . Do you agree ?

I do not agree, because I do not believe he would do that. My past, present and future have been decreed.

There is no reason to know it.

Is there a time in history when this was not true ?

I know many have claimed that this is ongoing since New Testament times.

 

[WIP]

I've shared this before but, every year on January 1, I make it a point to read or listen audibly to the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. A few years ago, while listening to the Bible I began to notice a repeating theme that seemed to jump out at me. It impacted me enough that I felt I needed to do a study.

I don't remember exactly the numbers involved but, using the NKJV Bible I searched for phrases where God describes who He is such as, I am the Lord, I am your Shield, I am your Savior, I am your Redeemer, I am God, and so forth. Of course, my search criteria was likely not exhaustive but, in the end, I found over 130 references like these in the Old Testament.

Then I searched for phrases where God declared His purpose along those lines such as, so you/they will know that I am God, so you/they will know that I am Lord, so you/they will know Me, and so forth. Again, I found somewhere around 135 references in the Old Testament and about 50 references in the New Testament. One of the things I find is the more I read the Bible, study the Bible, discuss what the Bible says, etc., the more I find that I realize and understand who God truly is and what it really means to know Him as Lord.

God wants us to know Him. Not just know of Him but to really know Him and to know Him means to recognize, understand, and accept the fact that He is Lord. I think too often people don't really understand what that title "Lord" really means or they put their own definition on it.

It means that He is Sovreign, Supreme, and has total power and authority over all of us. Too often I think we like to put God in our own little boxes and define His Lordship according to our definition and not the other way around as it truly is. This is often evidenced when I hear people use a phrase like, "Well, my god would or wouldn't do....blah, blah, blah." God is not just my god. He is THE GOD!

So, my answer to the question presented in this discussion is that a good place to start is to look to the Bible - read it, don't just skim it but really read it, study it, pray about it and listen with your heart for answers, open your mind and your heart to its teaching, discuss it with others, and so forth. Another place to find answers is in ourselves. Apply the teaching provided in Scripture, how to live, how to think, how to speak, what to believe, and in whom to put your trust and faith.

Scripture assures us that we can find Him when we search for Him.

From there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 4:29 NKJV

You will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:13 NKJV

 

[JLB]

Good thing we have been enabled to crucify the flesh, with its vile affections and lusts...eh ? (Gal 5:24)

Yes. Well said.

I thought you said the flesh of Christians was sinless?