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can you be saved without repentance

M

matt

Guest
I am a devout Christian, but for some reason I have not been able to ease my mind about this. Can a person believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, then not repent of anything and still be saved?

Some say that repentance comes with believing but I don't believe that because all my life I believed and didn't repent and submit to the Lord until this year. I knew what he did and everything but never gave myself totally to him. Are you saved by the thought of knowing what he did for you or the actual acceptance into your life of Him?

Would it be safe to say that believing what Jesus did for you is how you get into heaven, but repentance and everything else just adds to your treasure in heaven?

In response to this thread please explain things instead of just throwing a bunch of verses out there because I'm sure I've read all the verses.

Thanks guys.
 
Also, I'd like to ask the question - if you are saved are you always saved. I have a cousin who convertyed to mormonism. I know for a fact that he believed a tone time.....
 
Not everyone who says they are saved are saved, consider the words of Christ;

Matthew 7:21-27

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heave
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


However if one is truly saved they will never leave God (they may sin) but they will never leave God. Why? Because God would not allow that to happen.



Peace In Christ
 
I am a devout Christian, but for some reason I have not been able to ease my mind about this. Can a person believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, then not repent of anything and still be saved?

If you profess to be a devout Crhistian,why would repentance bother you. Repentance naturally comes with an acceptance of Christ's sacraficial and substitutionary death for us. If you love him, you would naturally want to ask forgiveness and turn from your sins. That's what repentance is all about...a turning away from a past lifestyle. Let's see what the Scriptures say about it...

Luke 13:2-3 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matthew 9:13 (KJV) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 15:7 (KJV) I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Romans 2:4 (KJV) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:10 (KJV) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

When you see sin as God sees it, there is a natural inclination to want to be accepted back into the loving arms of the Lord and sin will force you to turn from God. Consider Adam before the fall. Up until that time he had enjoyed daily communication with God without any guilt or condemnation. After they eat of the fruit which God told them not to, immediately guilt set in and Adam realized he was naked and hid himself from the Lord's presence. Sin will make you turn from a loving Father because of that guilt. And, of paramount importance is that sin will always take you further than you want to go or think you will go. I am a witness.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If you hurt your wife or husband in some way and feeling guilty, you say, "I'm sorry" that's repentance in a way. It's simply a way of being sorrowful of your actions and/or deeds, be they in word or in deed. How many times do we, when a child, say, "I'm sorry, Mom...I won't do it again." A simplified explaination? Yes...but, it gets the point across. If you love someone and you do things that displease them, youo will want to say I'm sorry and turn from the way you've acted. That's all there is to it. But, that's not to say there may not be repercussions from that fault or failure or natural inclination. David paid dearly for his adulterous relationship with Bathsheba and as the bible says..."the sword will never depart from your house". David went about a year after the death of Uriah (that he personally set up) without much if any guilt until Nathan confronted him with a little story about "A Traveler". The story is in the 12th Chapter of 2 Samuel. Did David try to hide his sin and cover it up? No-after Nathan confronted him he simply said, "I have sinned against the Lord". True repentance.

There are also promises to the penitent...

1 Samuel 7:3 (KJV) And Samuel spake unto all the house of Israel, saying, If ye do return unto the LORD with all your hearts, then put away the strange gods and Ashtaroth from among you, and prepare your hearts unto the LORD, and serve him only: and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.

2Chronicles 7:14 (KJV) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
 
You absolutely must repent of your sins. It is not a matter of just believing, the devil even believes.
 
D46 said:
I am a devout Christian, but for some reason I have not been able to ease my mind about this. Can a person believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, then not repent of anything and still be saved?

If you profess to be a devout Crhistian,why would repentance bother you. Repentance naturally comes with an acceptance of Christ's sacraficial and substitutionary death for us. If you love him, you would naturally want to ask forgiveness and turn from your sins.

I have repented. My problem is how do I answer this question about repentance when I am witnessing to people. Flat out, do you have to repent in order to be saved?
 
Merry Menagerie said:
What do you think 'repentence' means?

To turn from your sins. I have a buddy who believes but has never turned from his sins, where does he stand?
 
Repent means to change mind. Have you changed your mind?
 
von said:
You absolutely must repent of your sins. It is not a matter of just believing, the devil even believes.

Von is right. Believing in Jesus or God is not everything. We must repent of our sins. We must know that we are sinners and that because of that sin we can not save ourselves. Admitting our sin humbles us because it makes us realize that we are not as good as we thought we were. If we do not repent, then we are committing yet another sin - Pride.

The second step of salvation as I was taught it, is admitting your sins: repenting. Without the knowledge of being a sinner, then how can one truly understand why Jesus died? We have to understand that we are sinners if we are to understand why we need salvation.

I hope this makes some sense.
 
I have a buddy who believes but has never turned from his sins, where does he stand?

He stands in the same place my brother does...in harms way. My brother is tattooed from armpit to finger tips and does as he pleases. Does he believe in God? Yes-he was brought up with the same church, same parents. We're 180 degrees in our lifestyle. Believing is not all that's required. The bible says"... the devils believe and tremble." James 2:19. Repentance is the key to unlock the door. Repentance breaks down the prideful nature...something satan never learned.
 
Merry Menagerie said:
Repent means to change mind. Have you changed your mind?

Yes. This thread has nothing to do with my salvation. I know where I stand I've accepted the Lord and have submitted fully to him. I know where I'm going when I die.
 
Good stuff! Sounds like you've got it all worked out mate. Rest in Jesus now!

God bless!
 
Merry Menagerie said:
Good stuff! Sounds like you've got it all worked out mate. Rest in Jesus now!

God bless!

:roll: Are you serious? You didn't even answer my question. :D
 
Matt,
I've struggled with this and it wasn't until recently I was given an answer.
First off do certain things you do bother you which before didn't even phase you one bit? I'm going to assume the affirmative.

I have those things too, the sin in my life that I constantly struggle with. Fact is, we all do.
We know those things we thought were ok aren't so good after all. The Spirit teaches us the difference between good and evil, we allow Him to do so by the acceptance of Christ. You know this. There are those things the believer does indeed turn away from but on the other hand some still linger. The sin in my life is a struggle for me, it bothers me, some more than others. It's this struggle that allows us to acknowledge what Christ has done for us. For us there will be no peace in this world. And Christ said so. We walk by the Spirit, not by the flesh. Yes, we know our sin is wrong and that's what changed, we repented. It's our spirit that lives unto everlasting life, not our flesh. Yet by the flesh we are condemned, but by the Spirit we recieve salvation through the devine work Christ did on the cross at Calvary.
Paul struggled with his sin also in Romans chapter 7. But he made the distinction between spirit and flesh and of the saving grace of God through His son Jesus Christ.
This is not to say Christianity is an easy-believism. Any Christian will tell you that. Yet, our joy is in the release from sin promised to us as children of God onto everlasting life with our Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ.
 
No I didn't either did I! Dear oh dear! That's what one gets when one tries to post on several boards at once LOL

The answer is

Yes!!

But I think you already know that ;)
 
matt said:
Can a person believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, then not repent of anything and still be saved?

Some say that repentance comes with believing but I don't believe that because all my life I believed and didn't repent and submit to the Lord until this year. I knew what he did and everything but never gave myself totally to him. Are you saved by the thought of knowing what he did for you or the actual acceptance into your life of Him?

Would it be safe to say that believing what Jesus did for you is how you get into heaven, but repentance and everything else just adds to your treasure in heaven?
Good question. I think carm.org does a pretty good job in helping to answering that question.

Carm.org says the following:

carm.org said:
Ascentia and Fiducia

Two words are worth introducing here: ascentia and fiducia. Ascentia is the mental ascent, the mental acknowledgment of something's existence. The demons acknowledge and believe that God exists. Fiducia is more than mental acknowledgment. It involves a trust in something, a giving over to it, a complete believing and acceptance of something. This is the kind of faith that a Christian has in Christ. A Christian, therefore, has fiducia; that is, he has real faith and trust in Christ, not simply an acknowledgment that He lived on earth at one time. Another way to put this is that there are many people in the world who believed that Jesus lived: ascentia. But they do not believe that He is their savior, the one to be looked to and trusted for the forgiveness of their sins.

Ascentia does not lead to works. Fiducia does. Ascentia is not of the heart. Fiducia is.

(Source: http://www.carm.org/questions/faithorworks.htm)

Now based on the fact presented by carm.org and coupled with what has to be done to be saved the following conclusion can be made.

One must have “fiducia†faith in Jesus Christ, and with such a faith repentance must come. Now if you, or anyone, truly accepts Jesus Christ (i.e. has fiducia faith) they will naturally repent. So Matt, if you merely mentally acknowledge Jesus Christ’s death on the cross for one’s sins, his resurrection, and ascension into heaven, then you are most definitely not saved.

matt said:
Also, I'd like to ask the question - if you are saved are you always saved. I have a cousin who convertyed to mormonism. I know for a fact that he believed a tone time.....
This is a tricky question to answer. It is trick because it often brings up the two controversial doctrines known as Calvinism and Arminianism. I, for the most part, believe in all of what is known as the “five points of Calvinism.†These doctrines deal with salvation and mans role in it.

If you want more information on either theological view point I suggest you look at the following:

Web Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminians

Book:
The Five Points of Calvinism by David N. Steele, Curtis C. Thomas, S. Lance Quinn

The reason I mention both doctrines is because on Arminianism says one can lose salvation and Calvinism says one cannot lose salvation. I of course agree with Calvinism.

Now why do I believe that one cannot lose salvation…simple I think scripture supports that notion. Some may say that preaching “Once saved always saved†will cause people to believe, and even neglect, that they do not need to continue to try and not sin. Such an objection is understandable, however; such an objection forgets the following:

1. When on truly accepts, has truth faith in Jesus Christ, they receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit sanctifies, justifies and regenerates them. By regenerating that person they are “reborn†or “born again†with a nature that is no longer under control of sin. This means that the person is no longer “naturally†inclined to sin (i.e. I they naturally desire not to sin). Jesus Christ, as you may know, lives within believers and convicts and frees the believer from sin.
2. When one commits a sin they are not only punished in this life but in the afterlife as well, in other words even if that person has salvation they will still be punished for that sin.

Another thing to remember is that, as the Bible clearly states, God will grant us believers’ treasures in heaven for our good deeds. Based on that reality if one continues to sin they are not only bring about judgment on themselves but lost rewards and blessing in this life and the next. I know for certain that every time I have sinned I have forfeited blessings from God, and that knowledge helps me all the more to try and not sin. The chief reason I try not to sin of course is because Jesus resides within me.
 
Potluck and Nocturnal_Prinicipal_X,
Thank you. I understand now. Thanks to everyone else too. :)
 
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