Catholics have no direct line to God

[Heidi]

The catholics have no direct line to God any more than the Jews and the Muslims do. So the Jews write notes to God and leave them in the wailing wall. And the Muslims go to Mohammed's teachings to figure out what Mohammed heard from God. And the catholics go to Mary to get to God.

But only the true born again Christians have a direct line to God through the indwelling Holy Spirit which is what saves us as Jesus tells us in John 17:3. So we don't need Mary, notes, or Mohammed because we have Jesus to talk to.

And this nonsense about catholics claiming they're asking Mary to pray for them just like they ask their neighbors to pray for them is pure rubbish. They don't bow down and address their prayers to their neighbors, they pray with their neighbors to God. But catholics bow down and pary to Mary. So that argument holds no water.

Catholicism is therefore a cult and no different than the Hindus, Muslims, and Jews praying to someone who can't help them. Once we have direct access to Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit, there is then no reason to pray to anyone else! It's a huge lack of faith to think that God can't accomplich his purpose without Mary whom Jesus downplayed all throughout the gospels. I'm sure he already knew that people would try to latch on to a fallible human being instead of to Christ alone which is why he kept diverting people's attention away from his mother and toward the only source who could help anyone; himself. But nevertheless, people don't listen to Jesus and instead, turn to their own imaginations which is what most of the world does. So sorry, catholics, you're praying to the wrong God.

 

[ZeroTX]

Heidi,

Have you ever witnessed Catholic worship in any form or do always believe what you see on secular TV/movies?

I don't mean to be sarcastic, but that was my only real insight into Catholicism prior to my late 20's. I believed in the "message" of movies like Stigmata (anti-Catholic drama) and Dogma (relativistic pseudo-sacreligious comedy).

In all seriousness, television may be helpful here. Do you get EWTN? Watch a Sunday mass on EWTN either on TV or streaming on their website and pay attention to what is read (Scripture), what prayers are said (many, including the Lord's prayer, every single week), and WHO the prayers are offered to (all to God). In the vast majority of masses, the word "Mary" is never even uttered. In a few cases you may hear during the Confeitor (when we are confessing that we have sinned) we ask Mary and the Saints in heaven AND all of our brothers and sisters in the congregation to pray FOR US to the Lord our God. Do you not ask (BTW, pray is an adjective for "ask") your brothers and sisters in Christ to pray FOR you? Does that mean you must go THROUGH them (of course not)? So, in any case, that form of the Confeitor is actually only one of many and it is the only place where you will find Mary mentioned in the mass. It is all about God and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ our Lord. Prayers are ALL directed to God.

I urge you to become more informed about Catholicism before categorizing Catholics as cultists rather than Christians.

God bless,

Michael

 

[ttg]

Heidi,

Your post is full of hatred, bigotry, and ignorance. Your arrogance is appalling, sinful, and embarassing to Christianity. Please think before posting what amounts to no more than hate speech.

When I pray the Rosary today, I'll specifically ask Mary to speak to her Son on your behalf. Today being Tueday, I'll reflect on the Sorrowful Mysteries.

The Second Sorrowful Mystery
THE SCOURGING AT THE PILLAR


1) Jesus is taken before the High Priest where He is falsely accused, buffeted and insulted.
2) The Jewish leaders take Jesus before Pilate, for only he can impose the death penalty.
3) The robber, Barabbas, is preferred to Jesus.
4) Pilate can "find no cause in Him", yet to appease the Jews, he orders Jesus to be scourged.
5) The scourge is made of leather thongs to which are attached small sharp bones.
6) Jesus is bound to a pillar and cruelly scourged until His whole body is covered with deep wounds.
7) The Lamb of God offers His suffering for the sins of mankind.
8)Jesus suffers so much in His sacred flesh to satisfy, especially, for sins of the flesh.
9) The prophesy of Isiah is fulfilled: "He was wounded for our iniquities, He was bruised for our sins."
10) Father, by the merits of Jesus in this painful scourging, have mercy on us and on the whole world.


The reason I have put in bold the first sentence of the Sorrowful Mystery is because you are falsely accusing, buffeting and insulting the memory of Jesus when you insult the Church He created.

Please think before spewing this excrement. You're insulting more than just Catholics.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

Have you ever witnessed Catholic worship in any form or do always believe what you see on secular TV/movies?

I don't mean to be sarcastic, but that was my only real insight into Catholicism prior to my late 20's. I believed in the "message" of movies like Stigmata (anti-Catholic drama) and Dogma (relativistic pseudo-sacreligious comedy).

In all seriousness, television may be helpful here. Do you get EWTN? Watch a Sunday mass on EWTN either on TV or streaming on their website and pay attention to what is read (Scripture), what prayers are said (many, including the Lord's prayer, every single week), and WHO the prayers are offered to (all to God). In the vast majority of masses, the word "Mary" is never even uttered. In a few cases you may hear during the Confeitor (when we are confessing that we have sinned) we ask Mary and the Saints in heaven AND all of our brothers and sisters in the congregation to pray FOR US to the Lord our God. Do you not ask (BTW, pray is an adjective for "ask") your brothers and sisters in Christ to pray FOR you? Does that mean you must go THROUGH them (of course not)? So, in any case, that form of the Confeitor is actually only one of many and it is the only place where you will find Mary mentioned in the mass. It is all about God and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ our Lord. Prayers are ALL directed to God.

I urge you to become more informed about Catholicism before categorizing Catholics as cultists rather than Christians.

God bless,

Michael

Sorry, but I've seen all masses I care to see. They are nothing but rituals and recitations. There is no heart in the mass only dogma and as jesus ays; "Teachings that are but rules taught by men." Their faith is in store-bought bread that goes in the body and out just as fast and in tangible objects like statues and beads that perish with use.

They call their priests father when those priests aren't our fathers in any personal way, and many of them are pedophiles hiding under the masks of sheep. They pray to a woman who did not die for our sins and Pope John Paul even claimed that Mary was responsible for his healing from his assassination attempt! Nowhere in the bible did Mary heal anyone!

Nevertheless, the false gods and false idols the catholics worship can do nothing for people. Statues break, icons can be stolen or destroyed and popes can be just as deluded as they were in the Middle Ages. So sorry, but the catholic denomination is as pagan as they come which is one reason why the Pope kissed the Koran which is a book worshiping allah who is the devil as Mohammed first admitted. :x

 

[francisdesales]

Sorry, but I've seen all masses I care to see. They are nothing but rituals and recitations. There is no heart in the mass only dogma and as jesus ays; "Teachings that are but rules taught by men." Their faith is in store-bought bread that goes in the body and out just as fast and in tangible objects like statues and beads that perish with use.

You have a woeful lack of the purpose of ritual in worship of God. The reason why you believe that the Mass has no heart is because you don't understand the meaning of the symbols behind what is happening, the gestures and words being done. They are meant to move our minds to what is happening spiritually. But ignorance of this will leave you totally perplexed about what is happening.

They call their priests father when those priests aren't our fathers in any personal way, and many of them are pedophiles hiding under the masks of sheep. They pray to a woman who did not die for our sins and Pope John Paul even claimed that Mary was responsible for his healing from his assassination attempt! Nowhere in the bible did Mary heal anyone!

A bunch of red herrings that have nothing to do with the subject... I suppose the madder you get, the easier it is to hate what you don't understand?

Nevertheless, the false gods and false idols the catholics worship can do nothing for people.

We don't worship anything but God. You are confused on what "worship" is, which isn't surprising, because you probably do not liturgically worship in the Biblical sense. You hear a Scriptural exposition, a Bible study. That is not coming into an encounter with the Risen Lord in the Biblical sense.

So sorry, but the catholic denomination is as pagan as they come which is one reason why the Pope kissed the Koran which is a book worshiping allah who is the devil as Mohammed first admitted.

Yawn...Catholics have been called pagan by Romans as they were marched off to the lions. The Romans didn't understand what they were doing when they crucified Christ, when they killed Christians in the ampitheater, nor do you. Before you rush to judgment, perhaps you should find out what we believe and why. Perhaps it is YOU who are mistaken?

Regards

 

[thessalonian]

I never pray directly to God? Just how do you know that Heidi? You once told the board you were infallible. Now you claim omniscience. It is a logical fallacy that if I ask others to pray for me, including those in heaven that I do not pray directly to my Abba, Father as well or to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit. Many times a day in fact. I do all of these things. I'll let the readers judge credibility of your post.

By the way, my kids think I bring home the bacon. Awfully evil of the little varmits. Don't they know God does it. Do you always set up such false dichotomies. I see people crediting Peter and Paul for the healings they accomplished. We all know it was God but it was God through them. That's what you don't seem to get about the Pope and Mary thing. Noone claims she did the actual healing when you understand Catholicism. Yet just as I can be recognized as God's instrument and a servant for my family so can others be recognized as God's conduit to grace, healing, and care for mankind.

 

[ZeroTX]

Heidi,

Nice job of quoting my entire post and then not addressing anything except observing a mass and then insulting it because it is too "ritualistic" for you. Great way to deflect from the immutable fact that the mass is about Christ and that all prayers in the mass are to God alone and that we only worship God.

If you really believe the things you say about Catholics, then I am sorry for you. However, it does not excuse your behavior or your attitude towards other Christians, nay, other human beings who have done you no harm.

I will also pray for you. I committed to pray the Rosary 3 times a week for an upcoming retreat. I will include you as an intention in this Rosary today along with my ailing grandfather and 30 young retreatants who need a spiritual revitalization.

God bless,

Michael

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

Your post is full of hatred, bigotry, and ignorance. Your arrogance is appalling, sinful, and embarassing to Christianity. Please think before posting what amounts to no more than hate speech.

When I pray the Rosary today, I'll specifically ask Mary to speak to her Son on your behalf. Today being Tueday, I'll reflect on the Sorrowful Mysteries.

The Second Sorrowful Mystery
THE SCOURGING AT THE PILLAR


1) Jesus is taken before the High Priest where He is falsely accused, buffeted and insulted.
2) The Jewish leaders take Jesus before Pilate, for only he can impose the death penalty.
3) The robber, Barabbas, is preferred to Jesus.
4) Pilate can "find no cause in Him", yet to appease the Jews, he orders Jesus to be scourged.
5) The scourge is made of leather thongs to which are attached small sharp bones.
6) Jesus is bound to a pillar and cruelly scourged until His whole body is covered with deep wounds.
7) The Lamb of God offers His suffering for the sins of mankind.
8)Jesus suffers so much in His sacred flesh to satisfy, especially, for sins of the flesh.
9) The prophesy of Isiah is fulfilled: "He was wounded for our iniquities, He was bruised for our sins."
10) Father, by the merits of Jesus in this painful scourging, have mercy on us and on the whole world.


The reason I have put in bold the first sentence of the Sorrowful Mystery is because you are falsely accusing, buffeting and insulting the memory of Jesus when you insult the Church He created.

Please think before spewing this excrement. You're insulting more than just Catholics.

I talk to the catholics the exact same way that Jesus talked to the Phraisees, only he was harsher with them. So...do you think Jesus hated the Pharisees? :o The catholics are far more offended if they are criticized than if they blaspheme God. I feel the opposie way and so did Christ. ;-)

 

[thessalonian]

Offended? Heidi, you jest. I am not offended by you. I feel very sorry for you. God bless you dear lady.

 

[Latin Rite Catholic]

I to will pray for you Heidi!

Heidi,

I to will pray for you. That Our Lord, will bring peace and understanding into your life.

 

[Vic C.]

By the way, my kids think I bring home the bacon. Awfully evil of the little varmits. Don't they know God does it.

Shame on you. God would never "bring home the bacon"; swine is an abomination to HIM.

Lev 11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Unless you have a cud-chewing pig.

:-D

 

[BradtheImpaler]

But only the true born again Christians have a direct line to God through the indwelling Holy Spirit which is what saves us as Jesus tells us in John 17:3. So we don't need Mary, notes, or Mohammed because we have Jesus to talk to

If only you and those you refer to as born-again Christians have a "direct line to God" I would expect there to be a HUGE DEMONSTRABLE DIFFERENCE in answered prayer among you as opposed to the "not praying to the right person" groups you mention. (Personally, I am not convinced that ANY of you are really "getting through" since the whole subject of answered prayer is soooo subjective, but that is a broader topic) Specific to your claim, what is the general evidence that Protestant Evangelicals have a "hotline" to God that all other praying groups don't? I mean, you people should be walking on water en masse if this was true.

Do you claim answered prayer? So do they.

Do you claim a transformed life? So do they.

Does God perform "signs and wonders" through you? NEITHER does he through them :wink:

 

[Dalen Naskiel]

Of what i've been reading, I think no one has a direct link to God...

Except for Heidi at least..............................................................

 

[Lewis]

WOW

 

[SpiritualSon]

Heidi,
Those who worship God as three Divine persons also have no direct link to Him. I agree that Christians have no link with God if they ask Mary or the saints to pray for them. Those who worship Jesus Christ as the second person of the Divine Trinity have no link, because they divided God into three Divine persons. The Divine Trinity is in Jesus Christ. He alone must be approached and worship as the one true God of heaven and earth. John 1:3. From King James Bible, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Made by Him is correct, not through Him, which is incorrect.

The idea of the Trinity which the present-day Christian church has embraced and introduced into its faith, is that God the Father fathered a Son from eternity, and the Holy Spirit then issued from both, each by Himself being God. There is no way this Trinity could be conceived by human minds except as a triad of rulers, like having three kings over one kingdom, or three generals in command of one army, or three masters in one house, each of whom has equal power. This can only lead to ruin. And if anyone wants to form a mental picture or sketch of this triad of rulers while preserving their oneness, he can only conceive of it as a man with three heads on one body, or with three bodies beneath a single head. Such is the monstrous image of the Trinity which will be seen by those who believe in three Divine persons, each of whom is by Himself God, and link them to form a single God, denying that being one makes God one person.

The idea that a Son of God fathered from eternity came down and took upon Himself human form can be compared with the myths of the ancients, that human souls were created from the beginning of the world, and they enter into bodies and become men and women. It is also like the absurd idea that the soul of one person passes into another, as many of the Jewish religion have believed; for instance, that the soul of Elijah came back in the body of John the Baptist, and that David will return to his own or someone else's body, and reign over Israel and Judah, because Ezekiel says:

I will raise up over them a shepherd who shall feed them, my servant David. He shall be their shepherd, and I Jehovah will be their God, and David shall be prince in their midst. Ezekiel 34:23-24.

Harry :fadein:

 

[ZeroTX]

Although I don't agree that it's terribly relevant to this topic, I have always liked the "cherry pie" view of the trinity. You cut a good ol' southern cherry pie into 3 slices, 3 equal parts, and it's still 1 cherry pie... and even though "slices" appear on the outside, the warm filling is still "gelled" together as a single pie.

You are absolutely correct in your assertion that the real truth of the Trinity is just about impossible for humanity to completely comprehend. The same goes for many of the truths taught by God. That's where faith comes into the picture. We believe it is so, because our Lord says so. We anxiously wait for the chance to ask Him in person about all of these mysteries and truths that are beyond our material understanding.

-Michael

 

[thessalonian]

By the way, my kids think I bring home the bacon. Awfully evil of the little varmits. Don't they know God does it.

Shame on you. God would never "bring home the bacon"; swine is an abomination to HIM.

Lev 11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Unless you have a cud-chewing pig.

:-D

:

 

[ttg]

By the way, my kids think I bring home the bacon. Awfully evil of the little varmits. Don't they know God does it.

Shame on you. God would never "bring home the bacon"; swine is an abomination to HIM.

Lev 11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Unless you have a cud-chewing pig.

:-D

God would never bring home the bacon?


Peter's Vision
9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

 

[Imagican]

Although I don't agree that it's terribly relevant to this topic, I have always liked the "cherry pie" view of the trinity. You cut a good ol' southern cherry pie into 3 slices, 3 equal parts, and it's still 1 cherry pie... and even though "slices" appear on the outside, the warm filling is still "gelled" together as a single pie.

You are absolutely correct in your assertion that the real truth of the Trinity is just about impossible for humanity to completely comprehend. The same goes for many of the truths taught by God. That's where faith comes into the picture. We believe it is so, because our Lord says so. We anxiously wait for the chance to ask Him in person about all of these mysteries and truths that are beyond our material understanding.

-Michael

Yet we are told that there is a SIPLICITY that IS Christ. Simple IS understandable to those that are led by The Spirit. It's when man takes this and turns it into something SO complex that the 'true' nature of Our Savior is distorted into 'something' other than what it is that a 'problem' ensues.

MEC

 

[thessalonian]

ttg,

We're making light of things but thnaks for the passage.