Change in my religious beliefs

[Oats]

I'm starting to have a big shift in my religious belief, it's really hard for me to believe a lot of the bible literally,

My main reason is that life is much more complicated then we knew 2000 years ago, the univere is basically infinite as far as man in concerned

Why would God stoop down so low, what was his purpose in creating?

 

[Lewis]

I'm starting to have a big shift in my religious belief, it's really hard for me to believe a lot of the bible literally,

My main reason is that life is much more complicated then we knew 2000 years ago, the univere is basically infinite as far as man in concerned

Why would God stoop down so low, what was his purpose in creating?

Have you really, really thought this through ? Think about what you are saying here.

 

[Oats]

Have you really, really thought this through ? Think about what you are saying here.

I am thinking it through

 

[Bonairos]

Just for clarity. What specific beliefs would you change?



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[abrown9]

I know my opinion probably isn't that valuable here, but I think that's a thoughtful decision and indicative of growth as a person and not as a change of faith.

If I had to use a single word to encompass the Christian faith, it would have to be love. Understanding that the bible is not completely literal should not, in any way, take away from its meaning. By focusing entirely on the meaning and not the details, one can expand as a person and continue to act as Christ would.

If you continue to be a loving individual, empathetic to others plights, and carry with you general good will, you certainly are no less of a Christian. Whats more, you are still a good human, which is all that really matters. This is not to say that an individual who adheres to a literal reading of the bible cannot act like this, but rather to say that a literal view is not required to be a good person.

 

[Oats]

I don't take Genisis too literally any more

I still believe in Jesus, but I don't think we as humans fully understand salvation and how much it encompasses

Like I told someone earlier, I'm already a paranoid schizophrenic, I have enough reason to be nervous

I feel like I don't know that much and maybe some other religions makes good points to

Like I agree that suffering is what you make of it...

 

[Adullam]

I'm starting to have a big shift in my religious belief, it's really hard for me to believe a lot of the bible literally,

My main reason is that life is much more complicated then we knew 2000 years ago, the univere is basically infinite as far as man in concerned

Why would God stoop down so low, what was his purpose in creating?

Because He loves!

 

[Oats]

Because He loves!

I know God loves

But why create life on such a small planet in such a huge universe, just to love it?

-----

I still consider myself a Christian, but I feel dogmatic religion isn't for me, I feel like a lot of Christians are afraid to gain in knowledge about philosophical things, or hear people out on their beliefs, I think we should have more civil discourse, but I guess thats what this is...


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Edit* for some reason I feel a lot stronger in my beliefs now that I've voiced some of this stuff...I will keep thinking and wont forget what God has done for me

 

[cyberjosh]

I'm starting to have a big shift in my religious belief, it's really hard for me to believe a lot of the bible literally,

My main reason is that life is much more complicated then we knew 2000 years ago, the univere is basically infinite as far as man in concerned

Why would God stoop down so low, what was his purpose in creating?

We are in need of more specifics about your belief, but God stooping down to His lowly creation is really the great revelation that God has to show to man in that He consistently "chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong" (1 Corinthians 1:27) and even stooped Himself so low as to become flesh among us (amazing!). This demonstrates two primary things: God's love for His creation and God's humbleness despite His glory (which really reveals His glory all the more). If you are wrestling with a theological question then the answer is clearly given in the Bible as to why we were created: for God's glory.

But as to why He chose the exact manner of achieving what He is doing, only God may know that, nonetheless Paul demonstrated that God's plans are often so grand and lofty that we don't always fully comprehend them. After Paul just finished revealing an amazing mystery of how God planned all along to save the Jews by provoking them to jealousy by saving the Gentiles (seems a like a non-obvious solution to a problem) Paul exclaims overwhelmed with even what little he understood of it:

"33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
<SUP id=en-NKJV-28240 class=versenum>34</SUP> “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
<SUP id=en-NKJV-28241 class=versenum>35</SUP> “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
<SUP id=en-NKJV-28242 class=versenum>36</SUP> For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen"
(Romans 11:33-36)

Just know that even when you don't understand, God understands and knows.

And you know what Oats? Unless you never had any to begin with (only you and God can be the judge of that), it is when our intellect cannot explain what our heart knows to be true that faith bridges the gap by holding on to what our limited and fallible mind cannot fully grasp. You must have faith, else you will certainly fall away from God, for without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

[Adullam]

I know God loves

But why create life on such a small planet in such a huge universe, just to love it?

-----

I still consider myself a Christian, but I feel dogmatic religion isn't for me, I feel like a lot of Christians are afraid to gain in knowledge about philosophical things, or hear people out on their beliefs, I think we should have more civil discourse, but I guess thats what this is...

Doesn't this show the extent of God? Infinite detail in both micro and macro worlds. God doesn't do anything by half measure. It is not like Hollywood where they construct just enough to give an impression of reality.

This IS reality in all it's depth. Yet there is an infinite reality hidden from us as well. Mind boggling!

Should we lower our faith in the face of such greatness. Or do the opposite?

Peace!

 

[Bonairos]

If I had to use a single word to encompass the Christian faith, it would have to be love. Understanding that the bible is not completely literal should not, in any way, take away from its meaning. By focusing entirely on the meaning and not the details, one can expand as a person and continue to act as Christ would.

If you continue to be a loving individual, empathetic to others plights, and carry with you general good will, you certainly are no less of a Christian. Whats more, you are still a good human, which is all that really matters. This is not to say that an individual who adheres to a literal reading of the bible cannot act like this, but rather to say that a literal view is not required to be a good person.

Again, just for clarity in this thread (as I intend to follow it, silent or not), What parts of the Bible would YOU or have you, taken out and deemed "meaning and not details?"

Which parts can I not take literal and continue to act AS Christ would?

Not saying whether I agree or not, I ask those questions in order to ponder your belief.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Oats]

thanks you guys...i have a lot to think about,

God Bless

 

[Lewis]

I don't take Genisis too literally any more

I still believe in Jesus, but I don't think we as humans fully understand salvation and how much it encompasses

Like I told someone earlier, I'm already a paranoid schizophrenic, I have enough reason to be nervous

I feel like I don't know that much and maybe some other religions makes good points to

Like I agree that suffering is what you make of it...

If you have problems with Genesis especially the words In The Beginning God Created, you will have a problem with the rest of the Bible. You can't hold to one part of the Bible and not hold to another part. It just does not work that way. You can't say I believe in Jesus but not something else in the Bible. Jesus or Yesuha is the Bible, it is His Word.

 

[Oats]

If you have problems with Genesis especially the words In The Beginning God Created, you will have a problem with the rest of the Bible. You can't hold to one part of the Bible and not hold to another part. It just does not work that way. You can't say I believe in Jesus but not something else in the Bible. Jesus or Yesuha is the Bible, it is His Word.

In a sense of speaking I agree, but to me it seems like genesis or at least the first part, the creation account and the garden of eden, were written in a very obscure eccentric matter

But as I just prayed, I don't know it all.

But it seems that part of Genesis was written like folklore

It shares a lot with other tales from that time...

 

[cyberjosh]

I am an intellectual Oats. So I understand where you are at, and I have encountered many times when my intellect seemed to clash with my understanding by faith, but I never let go of my faith. Some unnecessary beliefs get winnowed away in the process when that happens, but our understanding of God and the essentials of faith become more clear and refined. Some quandries and puzzles I still have yet to figure out, but in other circumstances where I once did not understand something I eventually (although sometimes only years & lots of life-experience later) come to an understanding of something that once plagued me.

The key element was that despite at certain times being amidst a sea of doubt and uncertainty I grabbed onto the one thing I knew to be certain and true: and that was that Christ is the Son of God who died for my sins and has given me new life whereby I must now walk faithfully in obedience to God. I also believe that Scripture is inspired because of the truth of Jesus' Gospel, but I will leave you to evaluate the domino effect of how once belief ties into another. But remember, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Beyond this point, it is of course inevitable that we now deal specifically with the knitty gritty details of what you are wrestling with in your beliefs.

I speak this in love, and I hope you understand.

God Bless,
Josh

 

[abrown9]

Again, just for clarity in this thread (as I intend to follow it, silent or not), What parts of the Bible would YOU or have you, taken out and deemed "meaning and not details?"

Which parts can I not take literal and continue to act AS Christ would?

Not saying whether I agree or not, I ask those questions in order to ponder your belief.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

Well personally I'm not a religious person, but I'll keep my own beliefs about morality out of this other than to say that I believe morality, and thus being an inherently good person, is not exclusive to those of faith.

I would say that none of the details in the bible matter. To me the bible is a wonderful work that serves to guide individuals based on lessons. It is similar to me (I hope I am not trivializing anyones faith) as a collection of fables, albeit very deep and sometimes difficult to understand (I certainly don't consider theology worthless). The stories provide us with lessons and a framework from which to base our lives on. To me it doesn't matter whether Christ actually walked on water, actually healed a leper, or even if he actually existed! What matters to me is the example that he provides for us. Its an example to be a good and moral person. It is an example of love.

To me one can accept that the bible is a divinely inspired book of lessons that do not have to be taken literally to understand their deeper meaning.

 

[Bonairos]

Well personally I'm not a religious person, . . . To me it doesn't matter whether Christ actually walked on water, actually healed a leper, or even if he actually existed!

Would it fair to conclude that you do not consider yourself a Christian? Again, just for clarity.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Pard]

Sometimes you have to sit back and ask: "Are my feelings of this world or of God?"

Often we feel "bogged" down by the Bible and it "clashes" with our "sense-abilities" and our "intellect". You need to be wary of these things because we are of this world. We were raised in a world and a society that doesn't even see God!

Too often we try to measure God and the Bible and to do that we use our natural measuring stick. The problem is this measuring stick is calibrated to this world and this culture we live in. It cannot be used to measure something from another world. It's liked, you have to try to take your own situation out of the equation and look at it objectively, as opposed to what you are doing (and frankly what we all do) which is looking at it subjectively.

Maybe this should be moved to the Christian only section? Seems more of an advice/struggle thing than a free for all...

 

[Lewis]

abrown9 wrote

Well personally I'm not a religious person, but I'll keep my own beliefs about morality out of this other than to say that I believe morality, and thus being an inherently good person, is not exclusive to those of faith.

I would say that none of the details in the bible matter. To me the bible is a wonderful work that serves to guide individuals based on lessons. It is similar to me (I hope I am not trivializing anyones faith) as a collection of fables, albeit very deep and sometimes difficult to understand (I certainly don't consider theology worthless). The stories provide us with lessons and a framework from which to base our lives on. To me it doesn't matter whether Christ actually walked on water, actually healed a leper, or even if he actually existed! What matters to me is the example that he provides for us. Its an example to be a good and moral person. It is an example of love.

To me one can accept that the bible is a divinely inspired book of lessons that do not have to be taken literally to understand their deeper meaning.



Well first of all, and I am not trying to be funny here, but if you are not a Holy Ghost filled saved person your views of the Bible and how things should be within Christianity does not count at all. The Bible say that what we say is foolishness to the natural man. This matter should be handled by Christians only because it is a Christian issue not secular.

 

[abrown9]

No - not a Christian.

To Lewis: That's why I prefaced my original post with "I know my opinion probably is not valuable". However, is it not sometimes valuable to hear opinions from both sides of the fence when weighing your decision? I know my opinion counts for squat on how Christians interpret the bible, but maybe Oats could get something out of my two cents.