Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:1-4, Part 1

[Hidden In Him]

Angelina RandyK

Thanks for the responses, as well as those to Part 2 as well. I plan on catching up this afternoon, and blessings in Christ!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes, I remember a situation where I was asked to lead the worship because none of the team had arrived, so I did this with a church leader. We were doing well, and I felt that we were in unity in the spirit as we led people into the presence of God. Then I noticed him looking my way, and I felt an unusual spiritual connection. He was shocked because he thought we had connected soulishly, but we didn't. It was definitely spiritual and from the Lord, but he was sensing this connection through his own soul rather than the Spirit. It gave him the impression that it was soulish I didn't get a chance to explain to him what had happened, but I understood that if we were both worship leading in our spirit, this would never have been misunderstood.

"In Him we live and move and have our being." I was just discussing this with someone else, and that was my driving point, and the primary point I was trying to make in this study: There is a lifestyle we are supposed to have in Him, where we are following the Spirit's leading in all things, down to when and where we serve, and who with. The gifts were meant to be used in tandem with each other quite often; tongues with interpretation of tongues, dreams with interpretation of dreams, prophecy with receiving revelation concerning prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:30). Our lifestyle is supposed to be in experiencing the things of the Spirit as HE wills, because in Him we find our fulfillment.

No, I don't believe so. Encouraging youth to wait for marriage sets a platform for a good marriage, even if the young people have not waited. I know of many who abstained after finding out the teachings of abstinence before marriage because they want to start their lives on the right path in Christ.

Ok. But now, so I understand your answer, you do NOT think that operating in the gifts would enable them to better fulfill the call to chastity and holiness?

A personal revival, and then a worldwide revival! The fire of God to come down and burn all the dross.

Yes, I agree. And see, all these questions tend to build on one another, and the above is essentially the point I was making to the previous question. I think when the fire comes down it manifests in the gifts, and it is by walking in the gifts and the operations of the Spirit that it becomes easier to walk in the virtue of Christ. I think it is one of Peter's driving points; that we are called not just to His own virtue but His own glory, and that this begins with operating in His Divine Power, which has given unto us all things that pertain to life and godliness.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't know whether this fits in or not, but God used me early in my "Pentecostal" Christian life, perhaps because I had been raised a Christian. I was just new to the power of God.

In High School the schools in WA had just determined to separate out religion from our public education. But our school found a way to allow our own personal expressions by initiating, for a short time, "mini-courses," led by students themselves.

I and 3 others took it upon ourselves to teach a class on Christianity, perhaps only 1 of 2 in the whole school who did so. I taught on Revelation 12, as I recall. The class was full, and everyone was attentive as I shared my view on what Rev 12 meant. Suddenly, one girl in the class turned her back on me and started talking to the person behind her, and the unity of the Spirit in the class was broken.

I boldly spoke to her directly, in front of everybody, in the kindest, gentlst way I could, suggesting that she is free to go elsewhere if she isn't really interested in this class. She bolted for the door, and unity was restored for the rest of the session.

I view this as an operation of the gift of discernment--perhaps even a kind of prophetic spirit.. Sometimes boldness is called for in obeying the Lord--certainly not trying to please men. But the result was positive, edifying, and good.

This is how important it is that we operate by the Spirit, in my view.

I agree. Sometimes order has to be maintained. It's what Paul was doing when he chastised the Corinthians for not handling the gifts responsibly, or in a way that ministered to others rather than just spouting tongues to be spouting. I think it's one of the bigger problems in Pentecostalism IMO through the last few decades. Not enough calling people to act responsively in the things of God. Satanists can be present and faking being Christians, and they can mock the true gifts with false ones. If there is no discernment, and no willingness to exercise authority, how are we to prevent those speaking and acting through the agency of evil spirits from "manifesting" gifts and actions that are not of God?

 

[Hidden In Him]

"All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given". This is not general preference. This is stating that God will give the preference specifically, by act of God, to some, and for that some, it is right for them.

This is an interesting point, Jonathan, and I missed this post. There is another way to interpret it, in that He might have meant by "to whom it is given" those to whom the ability to see the teaching as being from God. If so, it could be said the empowerment to bring the flesh under could be given to all yet not many have ears to hear.

Not sure I BUY that completely or not, LoL. Just saying there is another way to interpret the saying. I know Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ," but in another place, "I would that you were all as I am, nevertheless each has his own gift," so maybe you are correct.

 

[RandyK]

A person I admired early on in my Christian life (in the Spirit) was Kathryn Kuhlman. I watched her regularly on Sunday mornings, and read biographies on her life.

It seems she was called early on--she believes a man was called before her but rejected the call. She was a good preacher, but not particularly experienced as such.

She fell into temptation and got into a relationship with another married preacher. Her ministry suffered until she determined to completely sever all relationships with men and return to preaching alone.

It was after this that suddenly the power of God began to fall in her meetings, people being healed or slain in the Spirit. She didn't initiate it--it just began to happen.

I don't think Kathryn would suggest people become celibate to have power. But it shows the danger of ministering the word without learning to resist temptation, in order to minister faithfully and in holiness. When we live a holy life, and minister the word of God, the power of God will follow, if indeed we've been called to it.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

If so, it could be said the empowerment to bring the flesh under could be given to all yet not many have ears to hear.

I think that all empowerment depends on the will and desire of God alone.

For instance. We can imagine a very successful preacher, very widely known for delivering that which Christ the Lord has said and desired, for decades. But hidden from view, he has a pride problem. This then manifests to empower other sins, in order to humble the man (to be humbled before God and man is a good thing!, it helps us learn to deny ourselves), in order to more properly educate those who are idolizing him as they had. I'll suggest this happens quite a lot.

 

[RandyK]

I do not think that the empowerment to bring the flesh under control, depends on the ears attached to that flesh, or the spiritual ears behind them. I think that all empowerment, depends on the will and desire of God alone.

For instance. We can imagine a very successful preacher, very widely known for delivering that which Christ the Lord has said and desired, for decades. But hidden from view, he has a pride problem. Perhaps he is proud of a nation of this world, or of a denomination, or of swearing of vows he did, or of children he fathered. Regardless, he has sin of pride which affects his delivery and the state of his own soul, in subtle but significant ways that the receivers understand not. The Holy One empowers that sin of pride, which then manifests to empower other sins, in order to humble the man (to be humbled before God and man is a good thing!, it helps us learn to deny ourselves), in order to more properly educate those who are idolizing him as they had. I'll suggest this happens quite a lot.

I don't completely understand that but find it interesting. I do agree that God allows sin to grow up in us when we don't deal with it. Ultimately, we will have to deal with it or suffer shipwreck.

I also agree that our works cannot induce God to give us power such as the man did in Acts who thought he could buy the power to work miracles.

On the other hand, God honors the heart that strives to love God with all his strength. It may bring on more power--I can't speak for God! Are we trying to make ourselves "greater," or do we wish to be more helpful to more people? Our motives are everything!

Your word of warning about pride is, I think, valuable. It is the sin that caused Satan to fall. He wanted to operate outside of God's authority to be a kind of "god" for himself. Whenever we try to operate outside of God's will and love, we end up making a "god" out of ourselves, and find our pride divides us from others, including from God.

Thank you!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't think Kathryn would suggest people become celibate to have power. But it shows the danger of ministering the word without learning to resist temptation, in order to minister faithfully and in holiness.

Yes, and it's another point to consider. Temptations will increase the more we serve God, especially if we are dong damage to the kingdom of darkness. Satan doesn't like it, so if you have not counted the cost before you go to war, you could end up suffering great losses. He will try to seduce you first. If that doesn't work, he switches to trying to make your life Hell.

 

[Hidden In Him]

For instance. We can imagine a very successful preacher, very widely known for delivering that which Christ the Lord has said and desired, for decades. But hidden from view, he has a pride problem. Perhaps he is proud of a nation of this world, or of a denomination, or of swearing of vows he did, or of children he fathered. Regardless, he has sin of pride which affects his delivery and the state of his own soul, in subtle but significant ways that the receivers understand not. The Holy One empowers that sin of pride, which then manifests to empower other sins, in order to humble the man (to be humbled before God and man is a good thing!, it helps us learn to deny ourselves), in order to more properly educate those who are idolizing him as they had. I'll suggest this happens quite a lot.

In a situation like you are describing there might not be the empowerment, and for reasons you have said. Or because what he is teaching is false doctrine. These can in effect diminish the power of the Spirit operating in him because they are not the true words of Life, nor is the spirit of Pride. So the Spirit is quenched rather than fanned into flame, and the result is a weakening of his spiritual walk, not a strengthening of it, leading to failure.

Good point.

 

[RandyK]

Yes, and it's another point to consider. Temptations will increase the more we serve God, especially if we are dong damage to the kingdom of darkness. Satan doesn't like it, so if you have not counted the cost before you go to war, you could end up suffering great losses. He will try to seduce you first. If that doesn't work, he switches to trying to make your life Hell.

Very wise! We need this kind of instruction in order to make inroads.

I might tell you that today a young Christian lady I know has chosen to date a Nigerian gentleman she met online. She was offended when I warned her about Nigerian Romance Scams.

I'm certainly not prejudiced, but we need to be on our guard all the time and not be offended when others warn us to remain alert. This young lady works in classified areas and should know better and may actually be fine. But we need to remain open to the advice of others, because Satan is very adept at using people to sidetrack us.

This lady has had a number of men attracted to her, but she seems to want only those who tell her what she wants to hear about herself. Very dangerous! Satan knows what we want to hear!

A couple of nights ago my wife and I were trying to buy tickets to fly home. A 3rd Party business signed us up for a discounted flight and got our financial info, and then changed terms of the deal later. He said the ticket is good for my wife, but not for me. The discount has been revoked for me, he said.

When I said I wanted to terminate the deal he said he could not, and continued to offer me "deals" that effectively tripled the cost of the trip! I prayed on my knees and then my wife and I both called him back and persisted until he suddenly relented. We thank God for deliverance, and for not letting us get sucked into his lies!

Satan really is out to do damage to us. Thanks for the good word.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I might tell you that today a young Christian lady I know has chosen to date a Nigerian gentleman she met online. She was offended when I warned her about Nigerian Romance Scams.

I'm certainly not prejudiced, but we need to be on our guard all the time and not be offended when others warn us to remain alert.

First thing I thought of myself. We had a Nigerian scammer here as a matter of fact. He was very convincing, and I even fell for it for a time, but he eventually got exposed. And you're right; God protects His own, but you have to be careful.

A couple of nights ago my wife and I were trying to buy tickets to fly home. A 3rd Party business signed us up for a discounted flight and got our financial info, and then changed terms of the deal later. He said the ticket is good for my wife, but not for me. The discount has been revoked for me, he said.

When I said I wanted to terminate the deal he said he could not, and continued to offer me "deals" that effectively tripled the cost of the trip! I prayed on my knees and then my wife and I both called him back and persisted until he suddenly relented. We thank God for deliverance, and for not letting us get sucked into his lies!

Satan really is out to do damage to us.

Absolutely. I believe the protection is there but you have to walk in the Spirit and follow His leading for starters, and do exactly what you did if you get tricked. He provides a way of escape, but it can actually be a little frightening at times.

 

[Angelina]

Angelina said:
No, I don't believe so. Encouraging youth to wait for marriage sets a platform for a good marriage, even if the young people have not waited. I know of many who abstained after finding out the teachings of abstinence before marriage because they want to start their lives on the right path in Christ.

Ok. But now, so I understand your answer, you do NOT think that operating in the gifts would enable them to better fulfill the call to chastity and holiness?

What I'm saying is if you teach people the truth, they will understand God's view. That's the first part. Then they can make a decision. Everything begins with a decision, but they need to know the truth in his word first. If they didn't know, they would continue on in a relationship, having sexual relations outside of marriage like the world does. If they knew how God views marriages and they wanted to start their life off the right way in Christ, they would do the right thing. This does not mean it will be easy; however, the Holy Spirit is in them to help them but you cannot make a decision without a reason, and that reason is based on the truth.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What I'm saying is if you teach people the truth, they will understand God's view. That's the first part. Then they can make a decision. Everything begins with a decision, but they need to know the truth in his word first. If they didn't know, they would continue on in a relationship, having sexual relations outside of marriage like the world does. If they knew how God views marriages and they wanted to start their life off the right way in Christ, they would do the right thing. This does not mean it will be easy; however, the Holy Spirit is in them to help them but you cannot make a decision without a reason, and that reason is based on the truth.

Yes, it starts with understand right from wrong first. That's similar to Peter distinguishing between the true Jesus and the "Jesus" of the Gnostics. I think once a decision is made there is still the matter of having the power to carry it out, but maybe that's what you're saying too.

 

[Guardian Angel]

1. My first thoughts were, if we are not called to conform ourselves to His image, what is the point of Christianity.

2. About the “Wait Until Marriage” thing, if we are following the Spirit, we need to wait on Him. I think many marry too soon, only because their flesh is giving them trouble and they want to keep from sinning by getting married, so they rush into things. But then their marriages don’t work out because they didn’t wait On God. They need to pray and really focus. Sex is the major way I think the Devil controls people, and we can‘t let him control what we do.

 

[Hidden In Him]

1. My first thoughts were, if we are not called to conform ourselves to His image, what is the point of Christianity.

Exactly. As I will get more into in Part 2, I find it odd that many teach we should conform ourselves to His virtue yet NOT His glory. Where in the New Testament does it say they were not to be conformed to His glory as well, and be transformed from glory to glory?

2. About the “Wait Until Marriage” thing, if we are following the Spirit, we need to wait on Him. I think many marry too soon, only because their flesh is giving them trouble and they want to keep from sinning by getting married, so they rush into things. But then their marriages don’t work out because they didn’t wait On God. They need to pray and really focus. Sex is the major way I think the Devil controls people, and we can‘t let him control what we do.

Yes... and this is difficult to teach and difficult to have to see young people go through, but I think the right advice is that it's better to struggle with the sin nature for a time until the right person God truly wants them to marry comes along then marry just to "fix" things. If you marry badly to the wrong person and it ends in divorce, you are right back where you started, and now sexually experienced and used to being able to be with someone, but now you are back out on the market and broken-hearted. I have told young men before to PRAY every day for God to send the right partner until she comes, because outside of choosing Christ it is the single most important decision they will ever make in their lives. But I also think it requires spiritual and emotional development. If God sent them the right partner, the one He wants for them, would they be ready yet? I think we do a very poor job of preparing young people for marriage these days. They are 18 and they don't even have a job yet, and no plan. Just a century ago, people were still training kids from a very early age to start preparing. Young men were being trained in how to make a living, and the opportunity to do so was something fathers were on the look out for, hoping to set them up with a job or income of some sort. Young women were being trained in how to be a wife and mother. Somehow the state took over, and they just train them in sex education and an array of things that in no way apply to their real lives now, so they've got at least two to three years of their hormones being active and in gear, and yet on hold as they try to maintain their abstinence, but with not even any real hope of when they can start establishing a real family yet. No wonder some end up giving in.