Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:5-11

[Hidden In Him]

Reinforcing Your Faith, Against The Spiritual Attacks Of The Accuser



One inescapable fact in the spiritual war is that Satan is an accuser of the brethren, and orders his demons to not only seduce us into sin if they can but then whisper condemnation into our ears thereafter, hoping we will ultimately cast down our faith and abandon the work Christ is doing within us. Witches and Satanists also direct spiritual attacks against us, which can sometimes be severe enough to bring on depression, and cause us to wonder if the Lord still loves us. But we must put all such voices aside, and rebuke any spirit that whispers evil things in our ears. They are not the thoughts of God we are hearing but the accusations of our spiritual enemy who is seeking to destroy us.

Rebuking evil voices and thoughts can get tougher, however, when we have little to nothing to point to in our lives that proves Christ is indeed working in us. We must be able to see evidence of it, or Satan can more easily convince us it's all just a lie and that no true conversion has really taken place. As many know, our faith is everything. If we no longer believe our defeat is assured, so it is essential that we reinforce our faith to keep from casting it aside. This was the issue Peter now began addressing in this letter. His answer was to build the fruit of the Spirit into our lives, so that faith in His work within us would be strengthened and reinforced:

But in addition to this, having applied all diligence, furnish your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, and godliness with brotherly kindness, and brotherly kindness with agape love. (2nd Peter 1:5-7)

By furnishing their faith with these things, they were reinforcing it against attacks from the enemy. As discussed in the previous studies, the threat here was potentially being seduced into a sexual heresy, and if they got suckered into sin they might take on forgetfulness of the cleansing of their sins in times past, and in so doing ultimately cast down their faith altogether. Instead they needed to "make their calling and election certain."

For these things being in you and abounding make you neither idle nor unfruitful in the recognition of our Lord Jesus Christ, yet the one in whom these things are not present is blind, being short-sighted, having taken on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins of old. Rather, therefore, brothers, be diligent to make your calling and election certain, for in doing these things you will not ever stumble, and thus shall be provided unto you entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:8-11)

Reinforcements are a defensive mechanism. They are put in place to counter the potential of a stronger than expected attack from the enemy. Much of the armor Paul listed in Ephesians was defense-oriented as well, as can be seen in his frequent reference to "standing," and holding their position. Barbarian attacks were head on assaults designed to break the Roman lines with overwhelming force, so before the Roman army could began an advance, they had to be able to "stand in the evil day."

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. (Ephesians 6:11-13)

In spiritual terms, the "evil day" was when demonic principalities and powers would raise up persecution against the faithful that threatened their lives and livelihoods. Christian leaders would be dragged before authorities and interrogated, and then beaten or scourged. It was then that they needed confidence in Christ, such as Peter himself exhibited when he and other apostles were dragged before the Sanhedrin, who reminded him again not to preach in the name of Jesus:

27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, 28 saying, "Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man's blood on us!" 29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: "We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you murdered by hanging on a tree." (Acts 5:27-30)

Peter refused to buckle under pressure. His faith that he was in the right was strong, and that they were obediently serving Christ. But what if this event had taken place just after he had denied Christ three times before the crucifixion? Chances are he would he have shrunk back in fear and shame. But now things had changed. He had preached to crowds on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40). And he had been used of God to manifest great miracles in Christ's name (Acts 2:42-43), so he was now a different man walking in a different mindset. His faith had been reinforced by the things Christ was doing in and through him, such that he was no longer listening to the Accuser, whether it was coming through the Sanhedrin or anyone else.


Evidence Of Conversion

Peter was referring to water baptism when he said, "he in whom (the fruit of the Spirit) is not present is blind, being short-sighted, having taken on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins of old." He was talking about the fact that water baptism symbolized the moment we passed from the old life into a new one, having died to the old man and cleansed from the sins of our past life. I also believe it is when the Lord intended for believers to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, so that when they raised up out of the water they would walk in the power of the Holy Spirit after the Lord they had been baptized into, Christ Jesus the Son of God, who Himself was clothed in glory in virtue when the Spirit descended upon Him as a dove.

But water and Spirit baptism was supposed to result in a new creation, created after the image of Christ. They were to result in manifestation of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, provided the believer applied the proper diligence, which is something Peter now reminded them of as well.

But having applied all diligence, furnish your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, and godliness with brotherly kindness, and brotherly kindness with love. (2nd Peter 1:5-7)

Each of these things could be likened to shields set in battle array against the enemy. Each further reinforced the next, making it that much harder for the enemy to seduce them into sin. What was Peter referring to specifically? Again, the threat here was a heresy that endorsed sexual immorality, and the exhortation was to "escape the corruption that is in the world through lust." In that context, the suggestion is Peter meant the following:

1. Add virtue to your faith so that you manifest Christ in His moral purity.
2. Add knowledge to your virtue so that you know how to bring your flesh under submission, especially through fasting.
3. Add self-control to your knowledge so that it's not head knowledge only, but you have the power to carry it out.
4. Add endurance to your self-control, so that you can make it last, for a little self-control will only enable you to master the flesh for a little while.
5. Add godliness to your endurance so you all the more are deterred from sinning against God (i.e. and potentially turning away to a sexually immoral religion).
6. Add brotherly love to your godliness so you are all the more deterred from sinning against your brethren (especially through adultery).
7. And add agape love to your brotherly kindness, so that your thoughts are only about seeing them operating in the Spirit of God, and fully manifest Christ.

If this kind of fruit was present, a believer would be very hard to seduce into sexual sin. Not only that, but the seducers faced a much greater possibility of being exposed and driven out as charlatans. In ancient warfare, the barbarians often paid a very heavy price for trying to get through Roman lines and failing. They took a merciless beating for it, getting stabbed by swords that would come through the shields to wound and kill them before they ever made a dent. And in the spiritual war the same is true. If these things are built into a believer's life, he is completely reinforced against sexual temptation, and the enemies Satan has in his service who attempt to be his seducers pay the price for it. They end up being trodden underfoot and annihilated for making a foolish mistake in making him angry.

 

[Hidden In Him]

An Array Of Reinforcements

But what happens if the enemy succeeds in seducing us? What if during a time of weakness we slip up and give in to sin? It is at this point that the believer needs secondary levels of reinforcement, similar to how the Roman lines would stack rows upon rows of soldiers one behind the other, and rotate them out to keep the lines fresh. In the spiritual war, if the first line of defense breaks, we need to fall back on what we have "behind us," or in other words, what Christ has done through us and in us in the past. So Satan got a little victory in our lives, and found a way to bring us a little shame and defeat. What happens now?

The account of Job reveals very clearly that Satan deliberately tries to set things up so we will not just engage in sin but ultimately curse God to His face and denounce Him afterwards, bringing complete and total destruction to our faith.

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?" 9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!" (Job 1:8-11)

He uses all manner of tricks to attempt this. In New Testament times, he was perpetrating the lie that eating meat sacrificed to demons was permissible for Christian, up until they actually did so, at which time he began beating them over the head for having taken communion with a demonic god and "sinned against the Lord." As Paul stated, it could potentially lead to some brothers "perishing," in thinking they had committed an unforgivable sin against God, and cast down their faith in Him altogether.

10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?... the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God: and I would not that you should have communion with demons. (1 Corinthians 8:10-11, 10:19-20)

The Gnostics, regarding whom Peter was writing this letter, were doing similar things. They were teaching others that fornication was permissible, and that no amount of sexual sin could affect a believer's salvation, for they supposedly now had "freedom" from the Old Testament laws. But as Peter would say, this "freedom" was a lie.

17 These are wells without water... 18 For when they speak great and swelling exaggerations, they allure through the lusts of the flesh and through sexual licentiousness those who have actually escaped from the ones living in error. 19 While they promise them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whatever a person is overcome, by that he is also brought into enslavement. (2 Peter 2:17-19)

Here again Satan would begin beating them over the head once they had committed sins like adultery, once their defenses were greatly diminished against his accusations because they were now guilty as charged. And if they had never reinforced their faith with anything they could point to to say Christ had indeed been working through them in the past, their faith might be hanging by a thread indeed.

Though it's painful to think about, we need to ask ourselves, "What if I do succumb to Satan's strategies some day, and what if I do fall into sin? Will I stand or will I fall?" Paul stated in one place that sin can quite easily beset us (Hebrews 12:1), and in another place warned, "Let him who stands take heed lest he fall." (1 Corinthians 10:12). I have personally struggled with sins throughout much of my Christian life, which is not something I am proud of. I also love the Lord, however, and have dedicated my life to serving Him, and I've had Him manifest Himself through me so many times that the Accuser has had little chance with getting me to cast down my faith. He cannot tell me there has been no true spiritual conversion in my life. Sure I may still struggle in some areas, but there is no way I would have ever been capable of the things I have done without truly coming to Christ. No way.

But I have a brother who has made some mistakes in the past, and his wife gives him a hard time over it. There are difficulties in his marriage and home life, and he and his family have also experienced multiple spiritual attacks through witchcraft. This is likely in part because he has a calling on his life and has been used mightily of God to receive prophetic dreams in the past, some of which have been important to my own life. Yet he has succumbed to depression, and to taking medication to function at his job. What is the answer for a dear brother in Christ like this who is facing such struggles? He hangs on, but sometimes talks as if He is of little value in the kingdom of God now.

I believe the answer is to fall back on the times we have been used of God, so I am reminding him of how the Lord has used him in the past and continues to. The man sent me a dream not long ago that contained wonderful promises and was a great encouragement to me, and how the Lord intends to use me and others, so I highlighted these things to him, and remind him not to lose sight of the work the Holy Spirit is still doing within him. And I remind him too that the end goal as Peter said is that we make our calling and election sure, so that we can be certain to be granted access into the kingdom of God at His return or at our deaths, which ever comes first.


Question & Applications

1. What thoughts do you remember having as you were reading through this study? Do you recall anything in particular standing out in your thinking.

2. What have been your thoughts when you heard some new believer say, "But I don't feel saved?," and what have you attempted to tell them in the past?

3. Food for thought: Do you feel the advice to reinforce their faith with spiritual evidence could be skewed and turned into a law?

4. For the sake of viewers who might like to see testimonies of the work of Christ in us and how this teaching applies, what fruit of the Spirit do you feel the Lord has manifested through you the most?

5. What fruit or spiritual gifts have you been "abounding in" more lately? Again, understand that this is not an exercise in pride, but giving testimony to what Christ is doing in and thorough you.

 

[RandyK]

I will comment later, when I have more time (Lord willing). But quickly, I would say that discussing recovery from failure has had the side effect in me of displaying the fruit of understanding. Once you have failed, you understand others who have similarly failed. It can produce a great love for God's forgiveness. And it can cause one to become less legalistic and more tolerant, as well as kind.

But I've struggled not just from distant failures, but also from the negativity that comes with this (not just condemnation). Failure will bring a certain decline of sorts--we reap what we sow.

But there is a tremendous lesson to be learned from Grace, because God's love never goes away. He *always* love us, who have chosen Him as our Lord and Savior. Even if our ministry value has declined, it can appear in other ways, no less beneficial to others.

Our failures in the past and present is also a challenge to our maintaining our appreciation for God's forgiveness. We become harsh when we're angry not just at our failures but also at suffering the consequences of those failures. We need to plow ahead, ignoring angelic and human insults and condemnation, persevering in the fruit of the Spirit and in the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I will comment later, when I have more time (Lord willing).

Blessings, Randy! Just went through and cleaned up about 6 typos anyway, LoL, so all the better now that it's a little cleaner.

But quickly, I would say that discussing recovery from failure has had the side effect in me of displaying the fruit of understanding. Once you have failed, you understand others who have similarly failed. It can produce a great love for God's forgiveness. And it can cause one to become less legalistic and more tolerant, as well as kind.

That's absolutely correct. Hard to take on conceitedness when you've been there yourself, so you take on compassion instead.

But there is a tremendous lesson to be learned from Grace, because God's love never goes away. He *always* love us, who have chosen Him as our Lord and Savior. Even if our ministry value has declined, it can appear in other ways, no less beneficial to others.

And it's the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

We become harsh when we're angry not just at our failures but also at suffering the consequences of those failures. We need to plow ahead, ignoring angelic and human insults and condemnation, persevering in the fruit of the Spirit and in the righteousness of Christ.

Exactly. It trains us to stop looking at ourselves altogether - good or bad - and focus on Him instead, finally coming to the realization that He is our only hope at righteousness anyway.

 

[Angelina]

1. What thoughts do you remember having as you were reading through this study? Do you recall anything in particular standing out in your thinking.

10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? ... the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God: and I would not that you should have communion with demons. (1 Corinthians 8:10-11, 10:19-20)

I was thinking about a friend of mine who used to ask me to go out with her for a drink at the local tavern. I had a few problems with that because I did not want to get involved in that kind of scene. Something I had chosen to no longer participate in. So I wrestled with this but agreed because she was my friend and I was hoping to restore her back into the body of Christ. This was at a time that I was involved in supporting an international ministry coming to town that week. So I went and bought a beer and sat on it most of the night. Then a young man came in whom I knew from church, and he saw me and acknowledged my presence and then left. A few days later I was at this ministry, talking with the international evangelist, when this young man came up to us and said hello. Then he proceeded to tell the evangelist that he met me at church and also at the pub the other night. The minister looked at me hard, but I didn’t try to justify myself because I had my reasons for being there. Later on, however, I decided that if what I do will cause a weaker brother to fall (due to my freedom), then I am not walking in love, so I stopped going to the tavern with my friend from then on.

2. What have been your thoughts when you heard some new believer say, "But I don't feel saved?," and what have you attempted to tell them in the past?

Iv’e never heard any new believer say that to me after leading them to Christ.

3. Food for thought: Do you feel the advice to reinforce their faith with spiritual evidence could be skewed and turned into a law?

If it were personal testimonies, I think it would reinforce faith in others. If we were to parcel out evidence using man-made techniques by putting God in a box, I think it could be a problem because God does not work through formulas, but each situation is accessed based on his knowledge and relationship with each person.

4. For the sake of viewers who might like to see testimonies of the work of Christ in us and how this teaching applies, what fruit of the Spirit do you feel the Spirit of God has manifested through you the most?

I think of the last 5 fruit of the spirit. It takes patience but also time and energy to be able to see the outworking of our faith and the manifestation of fruit-bearing as we work with other believers to support and help them grow their faith in Jesus.

5. What fruit or spiritual gifts have you been "abounding in" more lately? Again, understand that this is not an exercise in pride, but giving testimony to what Christ is doing in and thorough you.

Gifts: The word of knowledge, discernment, and revelation. Visions mostly. Fruit: Patience and self-control. Getting better at those but still need a lot of work.

 

[JLB]

Exactly. It trains us to stop looking at ourselves altogether - good or bad - and focus on Him instead, finally coming to the realization that He is our only hope at righteousness anyway.

Amen.

I believe it would serve Christians well to understand that the responsibility to “add to our faith” is on us. Of course the Holy Spirit empowers us (gives grace) to do this work in our lives, but nevertheless it’s up to each person to make the choice to “cleanse ourselves” from being a vessel of dishonor, so that we will become a vessel of honor, fit for the Master’s use.


Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:19-21

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

“The latter” is referring to a vessel of dishonor. We all start out being a vessel of dishonor, and it’s up to each of us to be aware that we are called to do the work of “cleansing ourselves” from being a vessel of dishonor.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


Most Christians don’t want to hear this. They believe Jesus Christ will do this work for us.

Peter plainly says, He has given us (past tense) all things that pertain to life (eternal life) and godliness…

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
2 Peter 1:2-3

When we become born again and are baptized with the Holy Spirit we have the Divine Nature (new nature) and the power of the Holy Spirit, Who is given to us to lead and guide us into all truth.

Example:

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


Key: if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We must apply ourselves to these things, knowing that God loves us and is for us, and the Holy Spirit with be with us helping us every step of the way, to walk in holiness and the fear of the Lord, cleansing ourselves (Sanctification) to become vessels of honor that qualifies us to carry His fire and anointing by which we will destroy the works of the devil in our families and communities.


Come on Church, let’s do this!!!

 

[RandyK]

Amen.

I believe it would serve Christians well to understand that the responsibility to “add to our faith” is on us. Of course the Holy Spirit empowers us (gives grace) to do this work in our lives, but nevertheless it’s up to each person to make the choice to “cleanse ourselves” from being a vessel of dishonor, so that we will become a vessel of honor, fit for the Master’s use.


Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:19-21

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

“The latter” is referring to a vessel of dishonor. We all start out being a vessel of dishonor, and it’s up to each of us to be aware that we are called to do the work of “cleansing ourselves” from being a vessel of dishonor.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


Most Christians don’t want to hear this. They believe Jesus Christ will do this work for us.

Peter plainly says, He has given us (past tense) all things that pertain to life (eternal life) and godliness…

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
2 Peter 1:2-3

When we become born again and are baptized with the Holy Spirit we have the Divine Nature (new nature) and the power of the Holy Spirit, Who is given to us to lead and guide us into all truth.

Example:

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


Key: if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We must apply ourselves to these things, knowing that God loves us and is for us, and the Holy Spirit with be with us helping us every step of the way, to walk in holiness and the fear of the Lord, cleansing ourselves (Sanctification) to become vessels of honor that qualifies us to carry His fire and anointing by which we will destroy the works of the devil in our families and communities.


Come on Church, let’s do this!!!

good exhortation!

 

[RandyK]

1. What thoughts do you remember having as you were reading through this study? Do you recall anything in particular standing out in your thinking.

The idea of trying to restore failed Christians captures my thinking. I know a number of them. And many continuing Christians have all kinds of skeletons in their closet that hamper them.

2. What have been your thoughts when you heard some new believer say, "But I don't feel saved?," and what have you attempted to tell them in the past?

I think all Christians--not just lapsed ones, go through periods of dryness. I know Kathryn Kuhlman said that she went through seasons--just like seasons of the year. She would be a "big thing" with all kinds of recognition. But then suddenly she would be unpopular and almost ignored for a while, as if her leaves were falling off in the autumn. It always returned to Spring, however, just like the seasons, when she would be popular all over again. So this isn't just the function of "lapsed Christians."

3. Food for thought: Do you feel the advice to reinforce their faith with spiritual evidence could be skewed and turned into a law?

We can only observe phenomena and draw conclusions. Sometimes these turn into false formulas that work in one place and not in others. It can be bad for those who are misled.

4. For the sake of viewers who might like to see testimonies of the work of Christ in us and how this teaching applies, what fruit of the Spirit do you feel the Lord has manifested through you the most?

I'm often complimented on the times when I succeed in showing patience and kindness. But my wife will tell you when there are times when I look terribly inconsistent with this. It's difficult to stay on top of your game all the time! But demonstrating "good fruit" is a good measure of how successful we will be in reaching others and actually helping them.

5. What fruit or spiritual gifts have you been "abounding in" more lately? Again, understand that this is not an exercise in pride, but giving testimony to what Christ is doing in and thorough you.

I'm still way too inconsistent to own any "bragging rights." I'm grateful to God in giving me the ability to demonstrate what Christ is like at all. I'm grieved that I'm so weak at times when I'm stressed. But we need to be kind to ourselves, as well. How can we help others when we're so down on ourselves?

 

[Hidden In Him]

10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? ... the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God: and I would not that you should have communion with demons. (1 Corinthians 8:10-11, 10:19-20)

I was thinking about a friend of mine who used to ask me to go out with her for a drink at the local tavern. I had a few problems with that because I did not want to get involved in that kind of scene. Something I had chosen to no longer participate in. So I wrestled with this but agreed because she was my friend and I was hoping to restore her back into the body of Christ. This was at a time that I was involved in supporting an international ministry coming to town that week. So I went and bought a beer and sat on it most of the night. Then a young man came in whom I knew from church, and he saw me and acknowledged my presence and then left. A few days later I was at this ministry, talking with the international evangelist, when this young man came up to us and said hello. Then he proceeded to tell the evangelist that he met me at church and also at the pub the other night. The minister looked at me hard, but I didn’t try to justify myself because I had my reasons for being there. Later on, however, I decided that if what I do will cause a weaker brother to fall (due to my freedom), then I am not walking in love, so I stopped going to the tavern with my friend from then on.

I once knew a man I was trying to minister to who was an alcoholic. I remember having a beer with him once and we were outside throwing a football or something, and I looked over after 5 minutes and said, "Where's your beer?" It was gone; he drank it already. He then said he could tell I would never be an alcoholic, because I was sipping at it.

I decided I didn't need to have a beer with him, or drink around him, cuz he and I were not alike indeed.

Iv’e never heard any new believer say that to me after leading them to Christ.

I've seen people post things similar to this on the forums, and a few times in real life I recall someone saying it. It was usually someone who had in some way or another been told that they don't have to do anything, and Christ has done it all for them. Eternal security type messages, and that there was nothing they could do to lose their salvation, so they weren't really applying themselves, but their "faith" was unfortunately weak to non-existent.

If it were personal testimonies, I think it would reinforce faith in others. If we were to parcel out evidence using man-made techniques by putting God in a box, I think it could be a problem because God does not work through formulas, but each situation is accessed based on his knowledge and relationship with each person.

I agree.

Gifts: The word of knowledge, discernment, and revelation. Visions mostly. Fruit: Patience and self-control. Getting better at those but still need a lot of work.

We share quite a few things when it comes to the gifts. On fruit, mine would be a greater increase in Love, and Joy has always been a very consistent fruit of the Spirit for me (except for when I'm in a crabby mood, LoL).

 

[Hidden In Him]

Most Christians don’t want to hear this. They believe Jesus Christ will do this work for us.

We have a mutual friend who teaches larger Bible studies out of his home, and he unfortunately teaches these things. He says we no longer need to fast because Jesus fasted for us, and other similar such teachings. That we don't need to do things because Christ has done it all already, etc. My wife said she confronted him at a get together the other night because he's flat wrong in some of the stuff he teaches. She said the room got quiet and a few of the kids were kind of twirling their fingers like they hoped it was going to turn out alright, LoL. But the problem with men who are fathers and leaders (and talkers) is that few end up willing to challenge them in social settings like that.

My wife will have no problem doing so when she thinks it's absolutely necessary, LoL.

They worked it out later, but she flat out told him he was wrong in front of his whole family.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The idea of trying to restore failed Christians captures my thinking. I know a number of them. And many continuing Christians have all kinds of skeletons in their closet that hamper them.

Kinda sad.

I think all Christians--not just lapsed ones, go through periods of dryness. I know Kathryn Kuhlman said that she went through seasons--just like seasons of the year. She would be a "big thing" with all kinds of recognition. But then suddenly she would be unpopular and almost ignored for a while, as if her leaves were falling off in the autumn. It always returned to Spring, however, just like the seasons, when she would be popular all over again. So this isn't just the function of "lapsed Christians."

Man, I was going through something similar just a few days ago in fact. Life can be hard some days, and in my darker thoughts I think, "Is all this really worth it? I mean really. What am I doing that really amounts to much of anything good?"

I wouldn't call it dryness, just wondering if the cost is worth the effort. It's like, "Ok, whether I'm saved or not, I wonder what my life would have been if I had not taken this path." But then things get better and the sun comes out again, and you realize things weren't as bleak as you thought they were, and you realize you have a good life, thanks to choosing Christ as your Lord and Savior : )

I'm often complimented on the times when I succeed in showing patience and kindness.

Yes you do. You post with kindness, and it's very obvious. Granted, I don't follow you on other threads, so maybe elsewhere you are a little testier, LoL, but in the studies you always post with kindness.

I'm still way too inconsistent to own any "bragging rights." I'm grateful to God in giving me the ability to demonstrate what Christ is like at all. I'm grieved that I'm so weak at times when I'm stressed. But we need to be kind to ourselves, as well. How can we help others when we're so down on ourselves?

Agreed. I have actually always had a respect for myself as a believer, one that others cannot shake no matter how ugly others have been such as on the forums (and I was just as ugly back, so it was not all on them). But you have to have a faith in yourself (i.e. in Christ), and that's kinda one the main points to this study. It's easy to say "I believe in God," but do you believe in God IN you. That's the real question.