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Christ is the Rock...not Peter - Here we go again!

hi every one,

I never understood why Jesus said that He will build His Church on Peter's rock.

I would like someone to help me to understand this please.

Thank you :angel:
 
gingercat said:
hi every one,

I never understood why Jesus said that He will build His Church on Peter's rock.

I would like someone to help me to understand this please.

Thank you :angel:
Click to expand...


Did you not read any of this thread or the article above? :-?

It's not Peter's Rock. Read the scritpures, and read the 5 part article provided in the post above.


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I am sorry relic. You dont have to be so hard on me for asking. :oops:

So you are saying this?:


He was designating Peter as the “firstbornâ€Â, the one who would inherit the kingdom"
 
Peter was the first human to say that Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God. Rock just meant he was the first Christian and the was the first member (after Jesus) of the Church that is what all true Christians make today.
Jesus is the solid Rock that is our foundation
 
ChristineES said:
Peter was the first human to say that Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God. Rock just meant he was the first Christian and the was the first member (after Jesus) of the Church that is what all true Christians make today.
Jesus is the solid Rock that is our foundation
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Thank you Christine :angel:
 
ChristineES said:
Peter was the first human to say that Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God. Rock just meant he was the first Christian and the was the first member (after Jesus) of the Church that is what all true Christians make today.
Jesus is the solid Rock that is our foundation
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Christine, I do agree with you that Jesus is the rock and the foundation of the Church. Is Jesus the only foundation or should I say is it contradictory to call anyone or anything else the foundation? Tell me, what or who is the pillar and support of the truth? Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
gingercat said:
hi every one,

I never understood why Jesus said that He will build His Church on Peter's rock.

I would like someone to help me to understand this please.

Thank you :angel:
Click to expand...

ginger, the scriptures say "thou are Peter (which means rock) and on this rock I will build my Church". Jesus is calling Peter rock and saying that on this rock (peter) I will build my Church. Let's say a freshman quarterback comes in. The coach is watching practice and this guy is firing the ball 70 yards down field. What an arm. The coach calls the team together and says "Joe you are my quarterback and on this quarterback i will build my team and the bengals shall not prevail". Now tell me, is the coach saying that he himself will be quarterback. Not in the english language I know. Jesus called Peter rock and said that on that rock he would build his Church. Is this apart from Jesus being the rock? Well if it was one would be able to claim someone or something other than Jesus as a part of their salvation. When a missionary converts someone is it contrary to saying that Jesus converted that person? If it is then we have a problem. That person was saved by someone other than Jesus. No, it is all through Jesus that that conversion took place. He allows someone with the motivation of grace to assist in the conversion but it would not have happened without him.


Blessings
 
Av,


There is no other foundation but Christ. I Cor. 3
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I thought you guys liked Ephesians. Evidently you have ripped it out of your Bible. I agree that there is no other foundation but Christ. But apparently prophets and apostles are one and the same foundation. As for your Peter being a bad guy, I guess you don't believe that men can be forgiven. I guess you don't believe that the Holy Spirit did anything in him on pentecost. I guess you don't like having Moses and David as leaders in the Old Testament. David wasn't of the best charachter either, having his friend killed for his wife. Yet he was chosen by the Lord. The Lord certainly wouldn't speak through such a man either would he. So I suppose you should rip those books right out of your bible. While your at it you just as well rip out Paul's books. He killed Christians. You know, the Lord certainly wouldn't use such a wretch to do his work. And even after his conversion he said "the good that I would do I do not, while the EVIL that I would not do I do". The Lord could not possibly have done any good through this sicko. Your arguements don't hold AV. Except in your mind.
 
AVBunyan said:
fatboyluis said:
2. then how would God continue to guide us if not through teachers and an authority to expell heresies, the church, God Bless
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If you have the Holy Spirit in you along with a King James BIble, a humble and believing heart you won't need some earthly political institution controlling your conscience.

Read and believe your Bible! Are you ignorant? Can you read fifth grade English? Are you going to tolerate a church tellling you that you and others are to dumb to read God's precious words? The average word in a King James BIble is 5 letters or less :o - Is this too much for you? :o

God bless 8-)
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Those poor damned to hell souls who couldn't read. :o
 
What I meant by Jesus being the foundation is this:
Jesus told a parable about a foolish man building his house on sand, and it falls having no solid foundation. The wise man built his house on a rock and it was solid. In that way Jesus is our Solid Foundation. :angel:

As I said earlier, Peter was the first person to "accept Jesus as his savior" making him the first member of the Christian Church that all Christians still make up. He was the first "brick" (or rock) of that Church.
 
Thess wrote:
ginger, the scriptures say "thou are Peter (which means rock) and on this rock I will build my Church". Jesus is calling Peter rock and saying that on this rock (peter) I will build my Church. Let's say a freshman quarterback comes in. The coach is watching practice and this guy is firing the ball 70 yards down field. What an arm. The coach calls the team together and says "Joe you are my quarterback and on this quarterback i will build my team and the bengals shall not prevail". Now tell me, is the coach saying that he himself will be quarterback. Not in the english language I know. Jesus called Peter rock and said that on that rock he would build his Church.
Click to expand...
You are being a bit deceitful here. Jesus did not use the same word that is translated "rock" in this passage. He used two different words! The church is built upon the rock solid foundation that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I know you have already said you agree with this, but why must you make this passage say something it doesn't? Peter was but a small peeble, but Jesus is that huge rock that our faith is built on.By the way, have you had an opportunity to study that passage in the other thread I posted (the $10,000 challenge thread)?
 
Collier said:
ChristineES wrote:
As I said earlier, Peter was the first person to "accept Jesus as his savior"
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Where do you get this from?
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When Peter said that Jesus was the "only begotten Son of God" he accepted Jesus and was saved. All the Apostles (less Judas Iscariot) were saved. It is just a a modern choice of words. It never entered my mind that he was not saved.
 
Thessalonian,

You are teaching Catholic Doctrine here. :-?

Peter is not the Rock that the church is based on, Jesus is! Catholics love to take saints and gloify them instead of the "Word" of God. :-?



gingercat,

I didn't intend on being harsh. I do hope you read the 5 part article. It shows how Jesus used that wicked place as an example of how the Holy Word of God transforms even those people who partake in the most foul of pagan rituals. (God can transform even the most vile! ) :)
God will reach out to all sinners.

Notice in that verse, there is a comma after the name Peter. That makes it (Peter's name) seperate from the next part of the sentence. A comma is used to transition from one thought to the next!

Matthew 16:18 KJV
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Read the 5 part Article I posted below, Please. :)
If you will notice, that today, that place is a tourist attraction and all the pagan practices have ceased there. Jesus is the focus of that site now. Not the practice of pagan rituals.


Relic said:


Here is a very good link about the Place Caesarea Philippi
and the words in which Jesus spoke to Peter:
  • "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (KJV)

In this site you will find
a 5 Part article entitled:

The Gates of Hell.


Make sure you read the whole article.
It is very interesting and gives the history of Pagan worship there and how Jesus used this place as an example. I have provided some excerpts from the site below.


Part 1 City of Pagans
http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2065

excerpt:
Interestingly, Jesus chose to deliver a sort of “graduation speech†to his disciples at Caesarea Philippi. In that pagan setting, he encouraged his disciples to build a church that would overcome the worst evils.


Part 2: The Gates of Hell
http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2066

excerpt:
When Jesus brought his disciples to the area, they must have been shocked. Caesarea Philippi was like a red-light district in their world and devout Jews would have avoided any contact with the despicable acts committed there.

It was a city of people eagerly knocking on the doors of hell.


Part 3: Jesus’ Challenge
http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2067

Standing near the pagan temples of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked his disciples “Who do you say that I am?†Peter boldly replied, “You are the Son of the living God.†The disciples were probably stirred by the contrast between Jesus, the true and living God, and the false hopes of the pagans who trusted in “dead†gods.

Jesus continued, “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it†(see Matt. 16:13–20).

Though Christian traditions debate the theological meaning of those words, it seems clear that Jesus’ words also had symbolic meaning. His church would be built on the “rock†of Caesarea Philippiâ€â€a rock literally filled with niches for pagan idols, where ungodly values dominated.

Gates were defensive structures in the ancient world. By saying that the gates of hell would not overcome, Jesus suggested that those gates were going to be attacked.

Standing as they were at a literal “gate of Hades,†the disciples may have been overwhelmed by Jesus’ challenge. They had studied under their rabbi for several years, and now he was commissioning them to a huge task: to attack evil, and to build the church on the very places that were most filled with moral corruption.

Jesus presented a clear challenge with his words at Caesarea Philippi: He didn’t want his followers hiding from evil: He wanted them to storm the gates of hell.



Part 4: Not Ashamed
http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2068


Part 5: On the Offense
http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=2069

excerpt:
Other Christians just try to avoid sinful culture altogether. They have been taught to go on the defenseâ€â€to hide in their churches, schools, and homes and to shut the door on the evil influences of culture.

But Jesus challenged his followers to be on the offenseâ€â€to proclaim the truth without shame.

Our schools and churches should become staging areas rather than fortresses; places that equip God’s people to confront a sinful world instead of hiding from it. Jesus knows that the pagan world will resist, but he challenges us to go there anyway, and to build his church in those very places that are most morally decayed.

As we listen to Jesus’ challenge today, we as Christians should ask ourselves the important question: Are we on defense or offense?


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http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 670#253670
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ChristineES:
  • They were disciples before the events in Matthew 16. Peter was not even the first one called! That distinction belongs to his brother, Andrew.
 
Collier said:
ChristineES:
  • They were disciples before the events in Matthew 16. Peter was not even the first one called! That distinction belongs to his brother, Andrew.
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It is very true he was not the first called, but he was the first to say that Jesus is The Son of God. That makes him the first Christian. :)
 
Which just goes to show you why the church is in such a mess. Becoming a 'Christian' has been reduced to saying the 'right' words. Saying that Jesus is the only begotten son of God does not make one a Christian. And besides, at that point, salvation in the terms that Christendon defines it, had not been established since Jesus had not died or resurrected and neither had the Holy Spirit been sent.
 
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