christian leaders' responsibilities

[shad]

It seems clear that the church leaders are not doing a good job leading their flock.

There are too many resistance going on about being salt and light. Here is what Jesus says:

Salt and Light

14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

The pastors and priests should make it clear to their congregation that we should strive to be perfect as Jesus says, yet most of us dont seem to know about it.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

When it is addressed, the reply is always "do not judge".

Here is what Jesus says about judging:

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

This commandment is for people who are being hypocrites. So when we hear rebuke, we should pay attention to see if the accusation is truthful. If it is truthful then we should not fight against it by saying "do not judge".

We don't know if people are taking the plank out of their own eye, so we should concentrate on whether or not the accusation is truth instead of accusing back by saying "you are judgmental" or "you are judging,' etc...

 

[prough91]

Check perfect in that verse in the greek.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

shad amen this is very true. I have to say I am thankful to God because He has provided us a dear brother and pastor here who does preach that and is a good shepard but often I am glad but astonished that what He preaches can even be found in one church because it can be so hard to find these days. I believe that the church over all (not every individual or church) is in the same condition as the jews in Jesus day and this prophesy about them In his day, also fits just the same now.

Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Eze 34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

Eze 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.


Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].


Eze 34:7 ¶ Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;


Eze 34:8 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because [there was] no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;


Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;


Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.


Eze 34:11 ¶ For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.


Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.


Eze 34:13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.


Eze 34:14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.


Eze 34:15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.


Eze 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up [that which was] broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.


Eze 34:17 ¶ And [as for] you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.


Eze 34:18 [Seemeth it] a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?


Eze 34:19 And [as for] my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.


Eze 34:20 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, [even] I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.


Eze 34:21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;


Eze 34:22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.


Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

 

[shad]

thank you GPR for your input.

.

 

[Avondale]

Its interesting that mostly when we speak of Christian leaders one immediately thinks or refers to Pastors.

One reads a bit of the New Testament and finds pastors down the list but other mentioned giftedness above that.
Those that want to bring order out of chaos can argue from the first to the last in order of appearance.
We have the man versus woman debate as a typical example, and yet seldom, if ever, do I see someone argue that the humble pastor is well down the pecking order when it comes to exhortation how to conduct oneself.

Jesus gave us a living way that by following we would ALL grow up to unity and maturity and into the fullness of Jesus Christ.

Its one thing to 'blame' the pastors for lack of discipline and teaching etc but maybe they are not the ones to bring that dimension of God's love into alll situatiuons.

Scripture quoted above refers to others in God's calling. Do we accept Apostles and Prophets and what role do they have in the Thread header?

Shad I agree with the 'don't dare tell me how to conduct my life' bit. Its sometime hard to accept the responsibility of owning one's own weaknesses etc.
I struggled with that for a long time.
As a side - I was watching Dances with Wolves one night with my wife on the telly.
I was a fairly new Christian and pretty headstrong.
I actually enjoyed the movie, went to bed and was ovecome with the most incredible anguish I have ever felt.
I started to cry and when my wife came to bed I told her what a pig of a husband I had been and asked her forgiveness.
Something in that movie (still don't know what) broke that pigheaded rebellion inside me.
Anyway - yes we all need discipline but not rammed down our throats either.
Love (God's love) arrives and acts in mysterious ways.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Its interesting that mostly when we speak of Christian leaders one immediately thinks or refers to Pastors.

One reads a bit of the New Testament and finds pastors down the list but other mentioned giftedness above that.
Those that want to bring order out of chaos can argue from the first to the last in order of appearance.
We have the man versus woman debate as a typical example, and yet seldom, if ever, do I see someone argue that the humble pastor is well down the pecking order when it comes to exhortation how to conduct oneself.

Jesus gave us a living way that by following we would ALL grow up to unity and maturity and into the fullness of Jesus Christ.

Its one thing to 'blame' the pastors for lack of discipline and teaching etc but maybe they are not the ones to bring that dimension of God's love into alll situatiuons.

Scripture quoted above refers to others in God's calling. Do we accept Apostles and Prophets and what role do they have in the Thread header?

I agree, the problem is that 99% of all denominations and churches do not accept that there are or can be apostles or prophets these days! So not only do they not have any they refuse to have any, and all they have is pastors and occasionally a deacon to seat people and MAYBE a bishop or something.

Part of this problem is that " our fathers have inherited lies". They have been taught a one pastor system and many pastors like being the one man band.

Besides that the majority of christian doctrine commonly taught in most denominations is totally FALSE and is nothing but mens traditions and made up doctrines that do not heal or feed the sheep but that make the pastors fat.(of course i do not mean every single pastor, there are few but some very faithful good godly pastors, who are doing the best with the grace of God they have and who are waiting for God to build up the proper godly offices in their assemblies of apostle prophet evangelist teacher.)

 

[shad]

Thank you Avon and GPR,

As we all know, no one is perfect. But Jesus gave this assurance that "with God anything is possible". At least we should acknowledge that Jesus is expecting our holiness and righteousness in order to welcome us into God's kingdom.

.

 

[XTruth]

Matthew 5:48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Nowhere in Scripture do we have the authority to change the clear meaning of verses just because it doesn?t align with our preconceived notions and human philosophies. Many seek to find out how many imperfections, failures, and carnal traits are allowable in religion, but few seek to bring Christians to the height of the gospel standard and to the lack of limitations of the promises of God. The measure of the stature of the fullness is seldom mentioned much less demonstrated, while the stature of littleness, emptiness, and powerlessness of Christianity is often emphasized and demonstrated. This verse is too often taught that man is just striving to be perfect, but it is impossible. God never commands man to do something that is not accomplishable. The word „perfect? is translated from the Greek word „teleios,? which means we are to be complete in conformity. “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God (Rom.12:1-2).†Matthew 5:48 doesn?t say anything new, it confirms everything. Look at Adam and Eve, or even all the fallen angelic beings; they were made righteous and in moral perfection. What happened when they fell short of that? Christians are told that all sin forfeits their promise of receiving eternal life (Rom.1:29 – 2:3; 1 Cor.6:9-11; Gal.5:19-21; Eph.5:3-7; Col.3:5-6; Rev.21:8). Obviously moral perfection and holiness is not only commanded, but required. These standards were the same for Old Testament saints as well. “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect (Gen.17:1).†“Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God (Dt.18:13).†“Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day (1 Ki.8:61).†Keeping God?s commandments is the only way to be perfect by the standards of God after He has made you perfect by His justification through faith in His Son, whether that was faith in His future coming or His past coming. The body is to be perfect, or the Head will reject you. “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ (Eph.4:12-13).†“That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish (Eph.5:27).†“Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy (Lev.19:2).†“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy (1 Pt.1:16).†If the meaning were to strive for perfection and holiness, even though actually attaining it were impossible, then that?s what the Scripture would say. The Hebrew and Greek languages are better than ours and have very precise definitions and word meanings.

 

[jasoncran]

are you saying that the perfection required is the one only Christ can do and did on the earth?