Christianity In Crisis: The 21st Century.

[Scotth1960]

Dear Friends, I read Christianity in Crisis by Hank Hanegraaff around 1990 or so. There is an updated 2009 version, Christianity In Crisis: The 21st Century. By Hanegraaff. I shall have to attempt to find a copy of that so I can read it.
Take care.
Scott Harrington
PS Have you read this book by Hanegraaff? What do you think of what he says Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland teach? If that's true, it's false teaching.

 

[Strangelove]

Whats your record for most threads started in a single week?

And whats with trying to get Christians to read extra-Biblical books all the time?

 

[Scotth1960]

Whats your record for most threads started in a single week?

And whats with trying to get Christians to read extra-Biblical books all the time?

Dear Strangelove, Your words, too, are extra-biblical, so what is your point? The reference to Strangelove is extra-biblical, so what is your point? Some consistency needed here, ISTM. In Erie Scott

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Strangelove, Your words, too, are extra-biblical, so what is your point? The reference to Strangelove is extra-biblical, so what is your point? Some consistency needed here, ISTM. In Erie Scott

The point is, my words echo scripure. Your suggested reading echo's tradition and theosophy.

 

[Sam21]

The problem is that we are dealing with people who have given a good testimony of salvation and faith in Christ and who have gradually come to teach things that are clearly in opposition to the scriptures. I would recommend that christians turn from these people because they are teaching people that it is alright to deny and manipulate scripture. I have been a supporter of Copeland and Hinn and some others and part of what they teach is good, however they are in enough error that I will not support them today.
I bought the experience of Duplantis in Heaven and had thought of supporting him and with perfect timing I got a request from him to help him buy an 18 million dollar jet, I took this as evidence from the Lord to stay away from that man. They seem to be doing something that everyone else can see but themselves. They are deceived into thinking that THEIR faith is what has brought all the money to them, therefore all their materialism is really a gift from God. Their money is the product of being good salesmen, they have convinced some folks that they can have what they have if they only practice THEIR FAITH. Of course it is not their faith that is bringing in the money it is the message of give so you can get that is bringing in the money.

 

[Scotth1960]

The point is, my words echo scripure. Your suggested reading echo's tradition and theosophy.

Dear Strangelove, There is nothing unbiblical about tradition per se; can't you read for your own enlightenment 2 Thessalonian 2:15, where St. Paul commands Christians to hold to traditions. As for theosophy, your comment is way out of line, as theosophy is not in my way of thinking, or my reading. I have not taken time to read Rudolf Steiner or Madame Blavatsky or anything theosophical, or have I much carried for what Mary Baker Eddy said in her "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures", or Helen Schucman's "A Course in Miracles". I have read from these, but reading something does not make a person believe it. We can read the NWT (New World Translation) of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of NY (Jehovah's Witnesses), without becoming Jehovah's Witnesses. Reading the Book of Mormon doesn't automatically turn a person into a Mormon, either. Any more than just reading the NT makes one a Christian. One must believe and understand what one reads in the Bible, NT, and OT. I understand this forum is one sometimes less than serious which allows people to try to remain anonymous, for whatever reason, and so Strangelove and Saints and Ducks and
Space ships and Flying airplanes as incognito alter egos for people. ISTM this is not conducive to taking people seriously. If they aren't natural, and just go by their own names, why would anyone want to take what they say seriously, if they are acting like they're timid and not just being themselves by their God-given names, or at least the name their parents in God gave to their children.
Enough already. In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Hardcastle]

What do you think of what he says Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland teach? If that's true, it's false teaching.

One need not read Hanegraaff to understand the error taught by Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland.

 

[Free]

And whats with trying to get Christians to read extra-Biblical books all the time?

Isn't that how people learn things instead of remaining in ignorance?

 

[Strangelove]

Isn't that how people learn things instead of remaining in ignorance?

See Hardcastle post #7

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Strangelove, There is nothing unbiblical about tradition per se; can't you read for your own enlightenment 2 Thessalonian 2:15, where St. Paul commands Christians to hold to traditions.

Paul was talking about traditions given BY HIS WORD OR EPISTLE....by him to them directly. Not talking about spooky occultic traditions involving grand robes, worshipping icons and communicating with familiar spirits that apostate denominations made up in the centuries after the NT was written.

 

[Scotth1960]

Paul was talking about traditions given BY HIS WORD OR EPISTLE....by him to them directly. Not talking about spooky occultic traditions involving grand robes, worshipping icons and communicating with familiar spirits that apostate denominations made up in the centuries after the NT was written.

Dear Strangelove, You really slander what you don't understand. Apostate denominations? What about the Protestant denominations? Luther said "sola Scriptura", and what resulted from that, 30,000 schismatic denominations, some of which are not even Trinitarian, but are Arian or Unitarian. Christians do not "worship" icons, they venerate them? You don't worship the Bible, do you? It is a verbal icon that you do venerate. There is nothing spooky or occultic about the Church. And the Orthodox do not communicate with familiar spirits. Orthodoxy goes back to the NT, not centuries after the NT was written. As francisdesales rightly points out from his post citing Irenaios and Cyprian, the early Church baptized infants. Sola Scriptura? How can we take you seriously when you talk in one of your other posts about "picking your nose"? Give us a break.
Free will exists to obey the Sovereign will of God, which is to save us in Christ (2 Peter 3:9).
Goodbye for now.
In Erie
PS Attend an EO liturgy and just sit or stand and listen respectfully before you try to disprove it from the Bible. There is nothing in the EO liturgy that is wrong. But many Protestant sermons are heretical. Just look at Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland and Creflo A. Dollar, for example. Scott Harrington

 

[Hardcastle]

What about the Protestant denominations?

What about the East–West Schism (1054)? What happened to the 'unity' of the "Catholic Church"?

Christians do not "worship" icons, they venerate them?

Christians do not worship or venerate statues, icons and relics. Those believers who belong to man-made organizations that promote the worship and veneration of statues and icons need to come out from among them and be ye separate...

Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you...​

 

[Free]

See Hardcastle post #7

What about it? That doesn't address my point.

 

[Free]

What about the East–West Schism (1054)? What happened to the 'unity' of the "Catholic Church"?

What about the Protestant denominations? Nothing has done more harm than Evangelicalism with its nearly countless divisions.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Have you read this book by Hanegraaff?"

Nope. I don't bother with books by "Heresy Hunters", and even OTHER "Heresy Hunters" don't think much of Hanegraaff.

BUT I wouldn't argue that Both Copeland and Hinn have error in their teachings.

I wouldn't need 'ol Hank to tell me that, though. Knowledge of the Bible does it nicely all by itself.

 

[Jake]

Dear Strangelove, There is nothing unbiblical about tradition per se; can't you read for your own enlightenment 2 Thessalonian 2:15, where St. Paul commands Christians to hold to traditions. [/qoute]

Brother, you need to ask the Lord what He meant when He put this in His Word:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, eitherby our spoken word or by our letter.


The traditions of spoken here are not what you think they are, you are in error.

This is what He said about the traditions you refer to:


Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.



Mark 7:8-9 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men." And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!"

You, my friend, have been taken captive by philosophy and empty deciet.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:

Take heed before it's too late for you.

 

[Scotth1960]

What about the East–West Schism (1054)? What happened to the 'unity' of the "Catholic Church"?



Christians do not worship or venerate statues, icons and relics. Those believers who belong to man-made organizations that promote the worship and veneration of statues and icons need to come out from among them and be ye separate...

Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you...​

Dear Hardcastle, One last thing before I leave you for now. The Calvinists, who decry and deny the veneration (NOT worship or adoration) of icons of the Saviour and the Virgin and the Saints do not deny icons (images) of the "great Reformer" of the West, John Calvin. They make all kinds of icons of John Calvin, even while they forbid icons of anyone else, or almost anyone else who is not Reformed. They make icons of Calvin, and there are statues of Calvin and Knox in Geneva, I believe. Go figure for INCONSISTENCY and HYPOCRISY among the Reformed/Calvinists. Before throwing stones at the Orthodox veneration of icons, one should look first into one's own glass house, with one's veneration of Calvin in the many images Protestants paint of Calvin on their books and so on.
In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[tim-from-pa]

For anyone interested, here is a Wiki article on him just to get an idea where he's coming from:

Hank Hanegraaff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I grew up in an evangelical church which seems to be his background. I know that they used to warn about "cults" a lot, e.g. JW's, Mormonism, Armstrongism, Seventh Day Adventist, etc which from my perspective are not really cults but an alternate understanding of scripture. Maybe the only crisis is that really the "traditions of men" only can stand so long as I have found out. Some of the other "cults" have raised valid points in some of their doctrines that mainline Protestantism has avoided or song and danced around the issue. I don't belong to an evangelical church any longer after studying the scriptures deeper. Sometimes there's far more to the bible and God's purpose than salvations and baptisms.

 

[Hardcastle]

Dear Hardcastle, One last thing before I leave you for now. The Calvinists, who decry and deny the veneration (NOT worship or adoration) of icons of the Saviour and the Virgin and the Saints do not deny icons (images) of the "great Reformer" of the West, John Calvin. They make all kinds of icons of John Calvin, even while they forbid icons of anyone else, or almost anyone else who is not Reformed. They make icons of Calvin, and there are statues of Calvin and Knox in Geneva, I believe. Go figure for INCONSISTENCY and HYPOCRISY among the Reformed/Calvinists. Before throwing stones at the Orthodox veneration of icons, one should look first into one's own glass house, with one's veneration of Calvin in the many images Protestants paint of Calvin on their books and so on.
In Erie PA Scott Harrington

Well, Scott - I am not a Calvinist and your rant comparing statues of Calvin in Geneva to Orthodox/RCC veneration/worship of icons appears to be misguided and not well thought out. The point remains - the veneration/worship of icons by any group should be rejected by all Christians for the obvious reasons.

Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you...​

 

[Scotth1960]

Well, Scott - I am not a Calvinist and your rant comparing statues of Calvin in Geneva to Orthodox/RCC veneration/worship of icons appears to be misguided and not well thought out. The point remains - the veneration/worship of icons by any group should be rejected by all Christians for the obvious reasons.

Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you...​

Dear Hardcastle, The Church (Matt. 16:18 and 1 Tim. 3:15) says what is the truth? Do individuals determine what the Bible says and means? Name one Scripture that proves what you say? It all depends upon the Holy Spirit, Who has already revealed the Truth to (John 16:13) / in the Church, in 787 AD. This was already decided by Christians long ago, and no longer needs to be re-decided. People are in bondage to the "Bible alone" approach of John Wycliffe, Jan Hus, Martin Luther, and John Calvin, but these men do not actually preach the Bible alone. They preach the Bible according to their own private Protestants traditions. Rejecting icons is just another "tradition of men" that Christ warned us against. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
PS To reject icons, you would also have to reject the cherubim on the ark of the covenant. God specifically commanded images on the holy Ark, and this is a Biblical precedent that does not categorically rule out sacred images in the worship of Israel and the Church. If angels can be pictured on the ark, why can't Christ, Mary, and the Saints be pictured, since they are more important pertinent than the angels on the ark. God revealed that, He also reveals truth in the oral tradition of the Church, which includes icons. St. Luke himself made an icon of the Virgin Mary. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington