[_ Old Earth _] Christianity in Science?

[Doulos Iesou]

This thread is discuss how Christianity is related to process of doing science.

1. Does the Bible reveal scientific truth?
2. How is Jesus related to science?
3. Can God be seen through the lens of science, if so how?

These are just some examples on how the conversation could unfold.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Okay Doulos, whatever happens, don't lose your patience.
Call on Jesus to help you get through it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What is Christianity?
Is theistic evolution Christianity?
I think we need to clear the air before we get started.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

What is Christianity?
Is theistic evolution Christianity?
I think we need to clear the air before we get started.

1. Christianity is a belief system centered around the person of Jesus being a Messianic fulfillment to the faithful of God to save his people and redeem the world.
2. Theistic Evolution is simply the idea that God used evolution to achieve our present day biological global ecosystem, it denies the idea of special creation. That creatures were specially designed and created as they are seen today (with slight variations).

 

[Jesus' Follower]

There is a book in the market called 'Big Bang, Big God'; the purpose of this book explains Christians doctrine and theories regarding the earths creation.
This book could help with the questions by the OP as it outlines, from my understanding, the role of God and the relationship to scientific theories.

 

[Barbarian]

While science did flourish under the pagan Greeks and the Muslim Arabs, the real flowering of scientific thought came in Renaissance Europe, mostly by Christians. We are seeing a second expansion of scientific understanding, again, mostly by Christians. (although in today's world, every major religion has it's share of great scientists)

So science isn't the enemy. Long ago, St. Augustine noted that we could be wrong about our understanding of scripture as much as we could be wrong about science.

I never liked the idea of "theistic evolution." It's like "theistic chemistry." What does a theistic chemist do that an atheistic chemist does not? Science does not depend on one's religious beliefs, any more than theistic plumbers do things differently than atheistic plumbers.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

1. Christianity is a belief system centered around the person of Jesus being a Messianic fulfillment to the faithful of God to save his people and redeem the world.
2. Theistic Evolution is simply the idea that God used evolution to achieve our present day biological global ecosystem, it denies the idea of special creation. That creatures were specially designed and created as they are seen today (with slight variations).

So theistic evolution is in no way Christianity.
Is that what you are saying?
Because that's what I would like to know.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This thread is discuss how Christianity is related to process of doing science.

1. Does the Bible reveal scientific truth?
2. How is Jesus related to science?
3. Can God be seen through the lens of science, if so how?

These are just some examples on how the conversation could unfold.

Number 3.
I hope your statement "seen through the lens of science" is a metaphor as one can sit and watch the ants crawl around and see creation at work through God.
But if you are referring to microscopes and telescopes, then you have made it a private conversation with those who are familiar with those tools.
Pursuing science is how we can learn of science, and those who know it should be willing to teach the rest of us.
The difference here being that stating your opinion should always be noted so that the rest of us don't get the wrong idea.

 

[Barbarian]

Science is best understood as just another tool. It's a way of understanding God's creation of the natural universe. But it's just a tool. It can be used for desirable things or undesirable things. It has no intrinsic moral content at all.

Like a hammer, it is good only to the degree that one does good things with it.

It can say nothing whatever about God. That is beyond its purpose and capability.

 

[Jesus' Follower]

Like a hammer, it is good only to the degree that one does good things with it.

I like this statement - science could be useful to Christianity to aid understanding, however, use it with caution...don't get carried away.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Science is best understood as just another tool. It's a way of understanding God's creation of the natural universe. But it's just a tool. It can be used for desirable things or undesirable things. It has no intrinsic moral content at all.

Like a hammer, it is good only to the degree that one does good things with it.

It can say nothing whatever about God. That is beyond its purpose and capability.

I would think that in studying science, the very final question would be, "Who is God?".

 

[Doulos Iesou]

So theistic evolution is in no way Christianity.
Is that what you are saying?
Because that's what I would like to know.

Theistic evolution is not Christianity, any theist can accept theistic evolution whether they be Hindu, Muslim or Christian.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I would think that in studying science, the very final question would be, "Who is God?".

Science is the study of the physical universe, why would the final question be a metaphysical one?

Science doesn't really give us answers to the big "why" questions.

Indeed it requires special revelation in order to truly understand who God is. I think the idea of why anything exists points to the existence of God, but looking for design in every little thing can be a dangerous thing to pin your hopes on. The human mind can see patterns in instances where all there is, is chaos. I can look at a piece of wood and maybe see a face in the random patterns. Did God put it there? Unlikely. What makes much more sense is that our ability to recognize patterns can sometimes trick us.

That's why all scientists, even Christians, exercise methodological naturalism. That we should be looking for natural explanations when observing the universe. If Newton just said that God just moves the planets and stars, he would have never discovered calculus.

That's not because God isn't there, but it is because we live in an intelligent and ordered universe built on mathematics.

Science can't answer why mathematics is useful to predict natural phenomena. I believe God is the best answer for this matter.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Number 3.
I hope your statement "seen through the lens of science" is a metaphor as one can sit and watch the ants crawl around and see creation at work through God.
But if you are referring to microscopes and telescopes, then you have made it a private conversation with those who are familiar with those tools.
Pursuing science is how we can learn of science, and those who know it should be willing to teach the rest of us.
The difference here being that stating your opinion should always be noted so that the rest of us don't get the wrong idea.

Science is built on facts not opinion, knowledge not just belief. Truths that are independent of one accepting them.

People need not be open to the words of others, they should be skeptical, but not biased and dismissive.

They should be open to facts, evidence and logic. We then create theories which are the best explanations for all the observed data.

Asserting God to just explain everything we see and how it operates simply is not science. It ends the conversation and nothing is learned. However if we recognize that we live in an intelligible and ordered universe, we can use our senses and logic to come to understand the physical universe.

However, as stated before it is important to have a philosophy of science that explains why science is even possible. Then we begin talking about theological matters.

 

[Sinthesis]

Pro 16:25 - There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I believe the scientific method is a tool given us by God to help determine more accurately the difference between what just seems right, and what actually is right.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

My wife's father has a good perspective concerning Christianity and science. Science addresses the issues of how things work, but not why. The bible addresses not the how everything works but does say why things are the way they are.

That said I do think there is an overlap between the two subjects. The bible also concerns how we are suppose to be, and gives some explainations to why. It also explains some other things in the same topic that science overlaps, but very few in that number. Science on the other hand tries to explain how things work, and in the process it sometimes finds reasons that explain why things work and are the way they are.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Pro 16:25 - There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I believe the scientific method is a tool given us by God to help determine more accurately the difference between what just seems right, and what actually is right.

I agree. Well said.

 

[Paloma]

This thread is discuss how Christianity is related to process of doing science.

1. Does the Bible reveal scientific truth?
2. How is Jesus related to science?
3. Can God be seen through the lens of science, if so how?

These are just some examples on how the conversation could unfold.

Here's my two cents...

1. Does the Bible reveal scientific truth? Yes, it does, but not in a way that a typical modern “scientist” would understand it. And it does not need to be to still be considered “scientific truth” Here’s why. The Bible tells us plainly the who, why, when, where, but does not describe the actual mechanisms (how). What exactly is “scientific truth”? I could simply tell my children that “See that five course dinner over there on the table? I made it for us, let’s eat” Was this a “scientific truth” ? Yes! Did I tell the child where the food came from and how it grew on a cellular level? Did I explain how the stove and electricity worked together to cook the food? No, but did I just tell the child “scientific truth”? Yes! We are all babes in this Creation, the “how” will probably come in the next age. Now, if we refuse to believe or accept what is plainly spoken of in scripture, that’s on us, not God. But just because we don’t have all the details, does not mean the Bible does not tell us “scientific truth.”

2. How is Jesus related to science? Well, Jesus, being God, has dominion over “science” (whatever that is). He turned water into wine in seconds, walked on water, multiplied bread and fish miraculously, raised the dead, healed the sick... I’d say he has mastered “science”. He invented science!

3. Can God be seen through the lens of science, if so how? If you use science as the lens, it reveals the power and fathomless depth of God. His creative powers; his incredible control over all the elements are magnified beyond compare. The more accurate way to state this however is thus….ONLY Through the lens of GOD, can we can correctly interpret science, not the other way around. Those who exalt “science” (the way God does/did business) over God are looking at things backwards, which would explain perfectly why we (man) has invented a multitude of erroneous theories to describe our position in the universe. I.e Evolution” (Pond slim to man over millions of years)

 

[Barbarian]

I would think that in studying science, the very final question would be, "Who is God?".

It can't be. Science is intrinsically limited to the physical universe. By its very methodology, it is unable to investigate God.

 

[Barbarian]

I like this statement - science could be useful to Christianity to aid understanding, however, use it with caution...don't get carried away.

I think you have it right. Science is quite different than the "invisible things of creation, clearly seen" that St. Paul says is proof of God. That is merely opening yourself to His creation. While it would agree with science, it is not science.

I like being out where there aren't people, as a photographer and a biologist. If I'm on some backwater of the Trinity, occasionally, there's an epiphany when all of it comes together in my understanding, and I am completely overwhelmed by His power and majesty.
It helps a lot that I know some of the details. But it really isn't necessary.