Bible Study CHRISTIANS ARE UNDER THE LAW OF CHRIST.

[charlesj]

AUTHORITY

1. Let’s start at the beginning, If you look at Genesis 1:1
 Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 Psalm 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it;

Who do you see here as the “ownerâ€Â… the Creator? God. GOD has ALL
AUTHORITY! (INHERENT AUTHORITY) He has made it all, He owns everything.

2. God delegated AUTHORITY to His Son, Yahshua the Christ:

 John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 Matthew 28:18 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
 Matthew 28 clearly establishes Yahshua has ALL authority today! He rules as “Lord of lords and King of kings,â€Â(Rev 17:14) He is King of the kingdom of God.
 Acts 2:36 clearly establishes He is ascended to the throne and He sits on the throne.
 Christ is head over the body, which is His church. (Eph 1:2,23)

3. Yahshua delegated AUTHORITY to His apostles:

 John 13:20 20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me." (Yahshua here, is talking about the one’s He sent, His apostles.)

4. The Holy Spirit guided the apostles:
Again, Yahshua was talking to His apostles and said:
 John 14:26 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
 John 16:12-15 12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

 1 Corinthians 2:10-13 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

5. The apostles (by the Spirit of God) wrote what we call the New Testament:

 Ephesians 3:1-5 NIV Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.

6. We are not to “add to†nor “take away†from the written Word:

 Revelation 22:18-19 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
 Galatians 1:8-9 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
 1 Corinthians 4:6 6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.



Now that we understand “AUTHORITY†and we know that Yahshua (the Christ) has ALL authority passed to Him by the Father we need to look at who’s Law we are under.

WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES. The Law of Moses covers the first five books in the Bible. We are NOT to “hear Moses,†but are commanded to hear the Son.

Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; .

a. The Hebrew writer, though the Holy Spirit, tells us that in olden times (Old Testament times) God spoke in different ways (He even used a donkey) and by the prophets.
b. But, God says, NOT ANYMORE, you are to listen to His Son, Yahshua the Christ.

The Hebrew writer also tells us that God changed the law:

Hebrews 7:12 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Not ONLY was the law changed, the LAWGIVER was changed. No longer was it Moses, but CHRIST!

CHRISTIANS ARE UNDER THE LAW OF CHRIST, NOT THE LAW OF MOSES!

Galatians 6:2 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

It doesn’t say, “…fulfill the law of Moses, but …fulfill the LAW OF CHRIST.â€Â

CHRISTIANS HAVE A NEW LAWGIVER, THE LAW WAS CHANGED!

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

a. Paul BECAME as a Jew… wait a minute, I thought Paul was ALREADY a Jew? Yes he was ALREADY a Jew, but he is telling us that as a Christian, he would do things that weren’t required of him, that is, to become a Jew (obey Jewish things, laws) in order to win some Jews to Christ.

b. Then Paul turns to the Gentiles and says, “…to them without law, (being not without law to God, BUT UNDER THE LAW TO CHRIST.) that I might gain that are without law. What Law were the Gentiles under? "...under the Law of Christ..."

c. Paul was a soul winner! He placed himself under the law of Moses to win those under Moses and then he would be a Christian to the Gentiles who WERE NOT UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES BUT UNDER THE LAW TO CHRIST!


The Jews were under the Law, not the Gentiles and not any of those who became Christians!!
The fact is that the Law of Moses, the Law that was given through Moses, was given to the Jews and it as given to them for a time, until the Messiah came and fulfilled the Law and that Law was taken out of the way.

Yahshua said: Matthew 5:18 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The question would now be, did Christ fulfill the Law? (The first five books of Moses)

YES! Luke 24:44 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me

Paul was speaking in Romans 6 and he said: Romans 6:14 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
And then Paul goes on to and explains: “Shall we sin BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW, but under grace? Certainly not.

So, certainly we are not to sin, BUT WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES and that was plainly explained to us in Romans 6.

In Romans 7 the apostle Paul clearly tells us that the Law is compared to a dead spouse or a dead husband that we, are no longer bound to. Notice Romans 7:

Romans 7:1 KJV Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Then Paul goes on in verse 4 and explains,

Romans 7:4-5 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Paul was speaking to some Jews (…to them that know the law) and told them they WERE DEAD TO THE LAW because they are now “married to another†(Married to another? Who? Christ, with a New Law!)

Paul very clearly tells us, yes, the Law was holy and righteous and good, BUT THE LAW THAT WAS GIVEN TO MOSES WE ARE NO LONGER BOUND BY, WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW. (Also, Rom 6:14)

The apostles of Yahshua the Christ and the elders at Jerusalem came together for the purpose to discuss this question on “the Law of Moses.â€Â

Acts 15:5 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

And as they came together to consider this, Peter spoke, and he says in verse ten:

Acts 15:10 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
The apostle Peter described the Law of Moses as a yoke which they were not able to bear.

The apostle James speaks next in verse 20 and this is what he says:


Acts 15:19-20 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood

No circumcision, no Law of Moses, no Sabbath, but to abstain from pollutions of idols, fornication and things strangled, and from blood!
There, you have it!

In Galatians 3 Paul says, that the promises were fulfilled through and in Yahshua. He came, and He fulfilled the Law. (Five Books of Moses).
When Yahshua fulfilled it, the Law was then taken out of the way.

In Galatians 3:24ff Paul says, Galatians 3:23-25 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Faith came! Then the Jew was NO LONGER under a scholmaster, but the “Law†was a schoolmaster….. IF THE JEW IS NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER AND THE SCOOLMASTER WAS THE LAW...GUESS WHAT?

Your servant in Messiah, Yahshua
charlesj

 

[SputnikBoy]

No need for anyone to go out and study theology for four or five years and get themselves a degree in order to try to emulate Jesus, charles. Jesus kept the law of God. So should we to the best of our ability. Yes, we WILL fail - constantly - and this is where repentance and forgiveness comes into play. This has ALWAYS been the case, by the way!

Human beings are human beings, regardless of race and culture, and moral commandments apply to all. Why is this even an issue? The gospel message is quite simple and doesn't require long and drawn our posts. By the way, which 'OT law' bothers you the most, charles? :wink:

 

[charlesj]

No need for anyone to go out and study theology for four or five years and get themselves a degree in order to try to emulate Jesus, charles. Jesus kept the law of God. So should we to the best of our ability. Yes, we WILL fail - constantly - and this is where repentance and forgiveness comes into play. This has ALWAYS been the case, by the way!

Hello SputnikBoy:

Yes, Yahshua DID KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES, that's HOW HE FULFILLED IT 100%... That was one of my points in my post earlier. NOt one jot or tittle was to pass from the law (5 books of Moses) till all was fulfilled... IT WAS, PRAISE GOD!

Not sure what you mean on your "theology statement"...

Yes, we should do our BEST and where we failed, Yahshua will make up the difference!!! It's "me (or you) plus Yahshua"...

[
Human beings are human beings, regardless of race and culture, and moral commandments apply to all. Why is this even an issue? The gospel message is quite simple and doesn't require long and drawn our posts. By the way, which 'OT law' bothers you the most, charles?

:wink:

The gospel is very simple: It's the death, burial and resurrection of Yahshua. That's the gospel message.

SputnikBoy, I'm not sure of your question on "what O.T. law bothers me."

I really love the whole Bible and am thankful the Lord has given it to us
for guidance.
I think you will agree with this:

2 Timothy 3:16 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Thanks for your imput.

your servant in Messiah,
charlesj

 

[John the Baptist]

--ARE WE ARE LIVING IN THE TIME OF NO MORAL LAW??--

If I ever believed that we are in the end of time, these last few weeks sure are convincing! Every place one turns, up pops satan's wickedness, through all of his 'desire'ees, from one end of earth to the other! Not only in the daily news, be it local, or USA, or world/wide, or the many 'winds' of satanic doctrine seen on forums, as in Jude 1:12 of the many who are 'twice' dead, meaning that they had even had the Born Again first requirement, and had then ended up in the Hebrews 6:6 group, or the cesspool of 2 Peter 2:18-22 Note verse 19.. 'while [they promise them liberty], they themselves are servants of corruption..' Liberty from the Eternal Covenant Law of the Universe, they say!!

Because some teach & live like Christ came to do away with the moral Eternal Covenant Law of the Universe, are you ready, and are you all prepared for what some of you have bought upon yourselves?

Here is the chapter to read for Histories (Eccl.1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15) DOCUMENTED repeat: Isaiah 5:1-14
And if you think that the world flood, or Sodom & Gomorrah, or the slaughter of 70AD were something to fear, read of the [LAWLESS] ones fate in Ezekiel 9!

And tack on the false doctrine that you are [already gone]!

---John

 

[charlesj]

Re: --ARE WE ARE LIVING IN THE TIME OF NO MORAL LAW??--

If I ever believed that we are in the end of time, these last few weeks sure are convincing! Every place one turns, up pops satan's wickedness, through all of his 'desire'ees, from one end of earth to the other! Not only in the daily news, be it local, or USA, or world/wide, or the many 'winds' of satanic doctrine seen on forums, as in Jude 1:12 of the many who are 'twice' dead, meaning that they had even had the Born Again first requirement, and had then ended up in the Hebrews 6:6 group, or the cesspool of 2 Peter 2:18-22 Note verse 19.. 'while [they promise them liberty], they themselves are servants of corruption..' Liberty from the Eternal Covenant Law of the Universe, they say!!

Because some teach & live like Christ came to do away with the moral Eternal Covenant Law of the Universe, are you ready, and are you all prepared for what some of you have bought upon yourselves?

Here is the chapter to read for Histories (Eccl.1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15) DOCUMENTED repeat: Isaiah 5:1-14
And if you think that the world flood, or Sodom & Gomorrah, or the slaughter of 70AD were something to fear, read of the [LAWLESS] ones fate in Ezekiel 9!

And tack on the false doctrine that you are [already gone]!

---John

Hello John again:

I wrote on the "Law of Christ." You haven't even dealt with it, nor any of my scriptures. You know you can't prove me wrong so you do what you've always done, you scream WOLF. (or Satan)

I wrote a paper one time in 1969 at a bible college and I can remember the professor(?) telling me that he saw little "demons" running all around his window seal as he read my paper. LOL

When some Christians don't argee with something, or see something they've never had to deal with, they start screaming DEVIL!

Hope we can correspond. I wouldn't dare refer to anyone on this forum as a tool of Satan or Satan.

your servant in Messiah,
charlesj

 

[John the Baptist]

You are getting personal??? (check 2 Corinthians 4:4)
You surely do not read well! If you are connecting your personal self with my hating of 'false doctrine' then that is as it should be! But do not tell me that it is me doing the convicting!! See Romans 8:14 & *Genesis 6:3!! And *Acts 9:4-5 in the K.J.!!

And you must think that you knew more than your Professor, huh??? :wink: But you need to just read your 'postings' & the many replies to [your posts]! :fadein:

---John

 

[charlesj]

And you must think that you knew more than your Professor, huh??? :wink: But you need to just read your 'postings' & the many replies to [your posts]! :fadein:

---John

John:

I had written a three page paper (back in 1969) on WHY YOU SHOULD KEEP THE 7TH DAY SABBATH... and gave it to the professor. I guess you are right, he knew more than me.

As far at the negative "replies"... that doesn't bother me. I am just responding to you associating me with Satan or someone calling me a devil etc. {I am a former Marine and was with the 4th Marine Div. 4th Recon... so the name calling (and I mean some really bad language) doesn't bother me, but coming from someone who calls themselves a Christian, I certainly don't like it}


your servant in Messiah,
charlesj

 

[MrVersatile48]

Hi Guys!

R U from John Hagee's Cornerstone Church there, Charles?

Was it his Bible college you attended?

I often watch his telecasts, that are available online @ http://www.jhm.org - click 'media'

Anyway, when I came in, I asked the Lord to show me, (in my semi-awake, half-asleep heatwave state), where this timely Word 4 Today best fits, & I guess it's here:-



Today's Scripture

Are you ready? His everlasting Kingdom is
one in which Righteousess Reigns

I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. For as the soil makes the sprout come up and a garden causes seeds to grow, so the Sovereign LORD will make righteousness and praise spring up before all nations.

Isaiah 61:10,11 NIV

__________________

I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.

Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and
let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them
bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the LORD have created it.

Isaiah 45:7,8 KJV

__________________

The LORD is exalted, for he dwells on high;
he will fill Zion with justice and righteousness;
and he will be the stability of your times,
abundance of salvation, wisdom, and knowledge;
the fear of the LORD is his treasure

Isaiah 33:5,6 RSV

__________________

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith
that saves is faith in Him.




Read Through the Bible in a Year

August 14: John 1:19-34, 1 Chronicles 7-8, Zephaniah 3
Click Here for the complete schedule

Or Copy and paste this link into your browser:
http://www.arcamax.com/ttb-yr.html


Weekly Meditation

The LORD is my light and my salvation

The LORD is my light and my salvation -
whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the stronghold of my life -
of whom shall I be afraid?

When evil men advance against me
to devour my flesh,
when my enemies and my foes attack me,
they will stumble and fall.

Though an army besiege me,
my heart will not fear;
though war break out against me,
even then will I be confident.

One thing I ask of the LORD,
this is what I seek:
that I may dwell in the house of the LORD
all the days of my life,
to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD
and to seek him in his temple.

Psalm 27:1-4 NIV

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, John, I read all your Bible links & often didn't see how they relate to the points you made - maybe it's this typical UK non-airconditioned library depriving my brain of enough oxygen, huh? :

God bless!

Ian :-D

 

[John the Baptist]

And you must think that you knew more than your Professor, huh??? :wink: But you need to just read your 'postings' & the many replies to [your posts]! :fadein:

---John

John:

I had written a three page paper (back in 1969) on WHY YOU SHOULD KEEP THE 7TH DAY SABBATH... and gave it to the professor. I guess you are right, he knew more than me.

As far at the negative "replies"... that doesn't bother me. I am just responding to you associating me with Satan or someone calling me a devil etc. {I am a former Marine and was with the 4th Marine Div. 4th Recon... so the name calling (and I mean some really bad language) doesn't bother me, but coming from someone who calls themselves a Christian, I certainly don't like it}


your servant in Messiah,
charlesj

****
A [post] being associated with satan??? See Matthew 7:13-14 & 1 John 2:4

That above post sounds 'spiritually brain dead' to me!??

When God told Cain in Genesis 4:7 to bring the 'Lamb' sacrifice and that he would be accepted as in his past, and if not, (and he was hell/bent to bring his 'fruit' instead!!) then, the devils would be Cain's desire! Got that???

OK: Now, here comes a post
(forget the poster) that tells the UNIVERSE in [someones] DOCUMENTATION (even years back to his professor, or whatever??) that the Inspired Word's of a God that is the same 'forever and I CHANGE NOT' & which even tel's us the BOTTOM LINE of his creations [WHOLE DUTY], and then here comes another post that says that he is not of satans falsehoods, but that God has said that He has now done away with the Eternal Covenant of Hebrews 13:20. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14!!??????? YIPES!!!

And this poster thinks that I am judging his 'post' wrong? I am beginning to wonder about the final state of the post writer???Hebrews 6:6? And then, Christ tell's me of Paul in Acts 9, & the ones of Revelation 18:4,.. :o so, as before, I do understand that Christ could say to Peter, 'get behind Me satan' while there was still hope for his CONVERSION! You do remember that Peter came to his senses 'and went out an wept bitterly'?

And your postings? I see nothing of My Master in them ! And are they Christian? No, I do not buy into that either! So far, everything that I see [posted] is anti/Christ as I see it. Revelation 17:5.

---John

 

[JM]

I put this last year, my views have changed only slightly, hope it adds to the thread.

_______________________________________________________

It's important to keep in mind, the Law didn't make anything wrong (except the Sabbath) that wasn't already wrong. Following is a mixed post of quotes, mostly mine but some are taken from unsited sources.

From the time of Adam, it was wrong to kill, steal, or lie. Law merely added penalties (and they are strictly limited to Israel) for breaking the Law.

It was to be carried out by the Jewish leaders (quote: 'notice that God protected the murderer Cain, because there was no law yet, and, therefore, no penalty.')

No one today who believes we are under the Law would advocate putting church members to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. That's why Paul says in Galatians, "you who desire to be under the Law, do you not hear the Law? (4:21).

The believer is not under the Law in any sense as we read in Rom. 6:14, because Jesus our Lord has already paid the death penalty demanded of those who break it (Rom. 6:6; 7:4) Remember what James wrote, you're dead after breaking the Law once (James 2:10). From that point on (a death sentence) being under a law is meaningless, because you can only die once, so the second murder, etc., are freebies. What happens to a condemned murderer on death row who kills a guard?

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:2- 3).

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another [there could not be another gospel]; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Gal. 1:6-8 ).

The doctrine many folks keep bringing up without realizing it is called "active righteousness" and ends up in the believer being under the law because Christ kept the Law. Reformed writer Dr. R. C. Sproul sums it like this: The cross alone, however, does not justify us . . . We are justified not only by the death of Christ, but also by the life of Christ. Christ's mission of redemption was not limited to the cross. To save us He had to live a life of perfect righteousness. His perfect, active obedience was necessary for His and our salvation . . . We are constituted as righteous by the obedience of Christ which is imputed to us by faith [R. C. Sproul, Faith Alone, (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1997), p. 103].

The question then is, does following the Law make one righteous? Was Abram declared rigtheous because of his works or his faith? Jesus is perfect, He is God and did the will of the Father perfectly “For Christ once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh . . .†1 Peter 3:18 “. . . being justified by His blood we shall be saved from wrath through Him†Rom.5:9. We are justified and seen as righteous because of Christ's death and not His perfect Law keeping. Our justication is in the risen Christ, He is our righteousness, not Christ Law keeping in our place, "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Gal. 3

So what is the purpose of the Law if it doesn't make one righteous? The Law was a school master ("Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.") and as the school master of the Mosaic covenant, it showed the Jewish nation their sins and condemned those under the Law.

William Kelly wrote: Had Christ only kept the law, neither your soul nor mine could have been saved much less be blessed as we are. Whoever kept the law, it would have been a righteousness of the law, and not God's righteousness, which has not the smallest connection with obeying the law. Because Christ obeyed unto death, God brought in a new kind of righteousness â€â€not ours, but His own favor. Christ has been made a curse upon the tree; God has made Him sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God in Him.

Note: This is the Biblical view, it's not antinomianism (The word comes from the Greek anti, against, and nomos, law. It is the unbiblical practice of living without regard to the righteousness of God, using God's grace as a license to sin, and trusting grace to cleanse of sin.) http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_a-b.htm#_1_7 In no way am I suggesting that we live sinful lives, that's a red herring.

Here's a wonderful story to explain the relationship a believer has with the carnal nature and the Law.

Romans 7:

Notice first that in the picture by which, in Romans 7:1-4, Paul illustrates our deliverance from the Law, there is only one woman, while there are two husbands. The woman is in a very difficult position, for she can only be wife of one of the two, and unfortunately she is married to the less desirable one. Let us make no mistake, the man to whom she is married is a good man; but the trouble lies here, that the husband and wife are totally unsuited to one another. He is a most particular man, accurate to a degree; she on the other hand is decidedly easy-going. With him all is definite and precise; with her all is casual and haphazard. He wants everything just so, while she takes things as they come. How could there be happiness in such a home?

And then that husband is so exacting! He is always making demands upon her. And yet one cannot find fault with him, for as a husband he has a right to expect something of his wife; and besides, all his demands are perfectly legitimate. There is nothing wrong with the man and nothing wrong with his demands; the trouble is that he has the wrong kind of wife to carry them out. The two cannot get on at all; theirs are utterly incompatible natures. Thus the poor woman is in great distress. She is fully aware that she often makes mistakes, but living with such a husband it seems as though EVERYTHING she says and does is wrong! What hope is there for her? If only she were married to that other Man all would be well. He is no less exacting than her husband, but He also helps much. She would fain marry Him, but her husband is still alive. What can she do? She is "bound by law to the husband" and unless he dies she cannot legitimately marry that other Man.

The first husband is the Law; the second husband is Christ; and you are the woman. The law requires much, but offers no help in the carrying out of its requirements. The Lord Jesus requires just as much, yea more, but what He requires from us He Himself carries out in us. The law makes demands and leaves us helpless to fulfill them; Christ makes demands, but He Himself fulfills in us the very demands He makes. Little wonder that the woman desires to be freed from the first husband that she may marry that other Man! But her only hope of release is through the death of her first husband, and he holds on to life most tenaciously. Indeed there is not the least prospect of his passing away (see Matthew 5:18).

The law is going to continue for all eternity. If the Law will never pass away, then how can I ever be united to Christ? How can I marry a second husband if my first husband resolutely refuses to die? There is only one way out. If HE will not die, I can die, and if I die the marriage relationship is dissolved. And that is exactly God’s way of deliverance from the Law. The most important point to note in this section of Romans 7 is the transition from verse 3 to verse 4. Verses 1 to 3 show that the husband should die, but in verse 4 we see that in fact it is the woman who dies. The Law does not pass away, but I pass away, and by death I am freed from the Law. [Footnote #15--Watchman Nee, THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE, pages 107-109 (Chapter 9).]

So what is the basis as a rule of life for the believer?

Quote: We are fully convinced that a superstructure of true, practical holiness can never be erected on a legal basis; and hence it is that we press 1 Cor 1:30, upon the attention of our readers. It is to be feared that many who have, in some measure, abandoned the legal ground, in the matter of "righteousness," are yet lingering thereon for "sanctification." We believe this to be the mistake of thousands, and we are most anxious to see it corrected. It is evident that a sinner cannot be justified by the works of the law; and it is equally evident that the law is not the rule of the believer’s life. As to the believer’s rule of life, the apostle does not say, "To me to live is the law;" but, "To me to live is Christ" (Phil. 1:21). Christ is our rule, our model, our touchstone, our all. We receive the Ten Commandments as part of the canon of inspiration; and moreover, we believe that the law remains in full force to rule and curse a man as long as he liveth. Let a sinner only try to get life by it, and see where it will put him; and let a believer only shape his way according to it, and see what it will make of him. We are fully convinced that if a man is walking according to the spirit of the gospel, he will not commit murder nor steal; but we are also convinced that a man, confining himself to the standard of the law of Moses would fall very short of the spirit of the gospel. – C.H. MACKINTOSH [Footnote #9--THE MACKINTOSH TREASURY– MISCELLANEOUS WRITINGS BY C.H.Mackintosh, p. 628, 653-654].

I stand with Paul when he wrote, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Gal. 2:20 Because of Christ, I am a new creature (Gal. 6:15-16) set apart from the Law (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:8-10; 4:24; Col. 3:10)

Peace and God bless.

Jason

 

[charlesj]

Hi Guys!

R U from John Hagee's Cornerstone Church there, Charles?

Was it his Bible college you attended?

Hello MrVersatile48:

Hope you get an abundant of oxygen...lol

BTW, don't worry about "John the Baptist"... half the time I don't understand him either. I think he means well and loves the Lord.

We have a "heatwave" here in Texas, especailly south Texas. I haven't seen rain now for about six months and even then it was very short lived.

To answer you question about John Hagee --- NO, I don't go to his church!
I worship at Crestway Church of Chirst here in San Antonio. We are NOT Protestant nor Catholic. As a matter of fact, we are not in any denomination. We just call ourselves Christians.

Yes, he did preach/teach at the college I attended many years ago. At that time I thought the world of him. This college was Pentecostal and so is John Hagee. I don't agree with either in any way.

John Hagee, when he was young, left his wife and married his piano player. I guess they played more than the piano. I lost complete faith in this man many years ago. Perhaps he has repented.

He is a premillennialist and sends millions of dollars to Israel each year.
But then, so are most ministers (premillennial).

He lives in a house > $1 mill. A large group of the Spurs basketball players are his neighbors. (Just to give you an idea of the wealth of this man).

All I can say of John Hagee is that he is (and has always been) a great speaker.


...thanks for your qustion. May the Lord be with you and bless you.

your servant in Messiah,
charlesj

 

[charlesj]

I put this last year, my views have changed only slightly, hope it adds to the thread.

_______________________________________________________

It's important to keep in mind, the Law didn't make anything wrong (except the Sabbath) that wasn't already wrong. Following is a mixed post of quotes, mostly mine but some are taken from unsited sources.

From the time of Adam, it was wrong to kill, steal, or lie. Law merely added penalties (and they are strictly limited to Israel) for breaking the Law.

It was to be carried out by the Jewish leaders (quote: 'notice that God protected the murderer Cain, because there was no law yet, and, therefore, no penalty.')

No one today who believes we are under the Law would advocate putting church members to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. That's why Paul says in Galatians, "you who desire to be under the Law, do you not hear the Law? (4:21).

The believer is not under the Law in any sense as we read in Rom. 6:14, because Jesus our Lord has already paid the death penalty demanded of those who break it (Rom. 6:6; 7:4) Remember what James wrote, you're dead after breaking the Law once (James 2:10). From that point on (a death sentence) being under a law is meaningless, because you can only die once, so the second murder, etc., are freebies. What happens to a condemned murderer on death row who kills a guard?

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:2- 3).

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another [there could not be another gospel]; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Gal. 1:6-8 ).

The doctrine many folks keep bringing up without realizing it is called "active righteousness" and ends up in the believer being under the law because Christ kept the Law. Reformed writer Dr. R. C. Sproul sums it like this: The cross alone, however, does not justify us . . . We are justified not only by the death of Christ, but also by the life of Christ. Christ's mission of redemption was not limited to the cross. To save us He had to live a life of perfect righteousness. His perfect, active obedience was necessary for His and our salvation . . . We are constituted as righteous by the obedience of Christ which is imputed to us by faith [R. C. Sproul, Faith Alone, (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1997), p. 103].

The question then is, does following the Law make one righteous? Was Abram declared rigtheous because of his works or his faith? Jesus is perfect, He is God and did the will of the Father perfectly “For Christ once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh . . .†1 Peter 3:18 “. . . being justified by His blood we shall be saved from wrath through Him†Rom.5:9. We are justified and seen as righteous because of Christ's death and not His perfect Law keeping. Our justication is in the risen Christ, He is our righteousness, not Christ Law keeping in our place, "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Gal. 3

So what is the purpose of the Law if it doesn't make one righteous? The Law was a school master ("Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.") and as the school master of the Mosaic covenant, it showed the Jewish nation their sins and condemned those under the Law.

William Kelly wrote: Had Christ only kept the law, neither your soul nor mine could have been saved much less be blessed as we are. Whoever kept the law, it would have been a righteousness of the law, and not God's righteousness, which has not the smallest connection with obeying the law. Because Christ obeyed unto death, God brought in a new kind of righteousness â€â€not ours, but His own favor. Christ has been made a curse upon the tree; God has made Him sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God in Him.

Note: This is the Biblical view, it's not antinomianism (The word comes from the Greek anti, against, and nomos, law. It is the unbiblical practice of living without regard to the righteousness of God, using God's grace as a license to sin, and trusting grace to cleanse of sin.) http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_a-b.htm#_1_7 In no way am I suggesting that we live sinful lives, that's a red herring.

Here's a wonderful story to explain the relationship a believer has with the carnal nature and the Law.

Romans 7:

Notice first that in the picture by which, in Romans 7:1-4, Paul illustrates our deliverance from the Law, there is only one woman, while there are two husbands. The woman is in a very difficult position, for she can only be wife of one of the two, and unfortunately she is married to the less desirable one. Let us make no mistake, the man to whom she is married is a good man; but the trouble lies here, that the husband and wife are totally unsuited to one another. He is a most particular man, accurate to a degree; she on the other hand is decidedly easy-going. With him all is definite and precise; with her all is casual and haphazard. He wants everything just so, while she takes things as they come. How could there be happiness in such a home?

And then that husband is so exacting! He is always making demands upon her. And yet one cannot find fault with him, for as a husband he has a right to expect something of his wife; and besides, all his demands are perfectly legitimate. There is nothing wrong with the man and nothing wrong with his demands; the trouble is that he has the wrong kind of wife to carry them out. The two cannot get on at all; theirs are utterly incompatible natures. Thus the poor woman is in great distress. She is fully aware that she often makes mistakes, but living with such a husband it seems as though EVERYTHING she says and does is wrong! What hope is there for her? If only she were married to that other Man all would be well. He is no less exacting than her husband, but He also helps much. She would fain marry Him, but her husband is still alive. What can she do? She is "bound by law to the husband" and unless he dies she cannot legitimately marry that other Man.

The first husband is the Law; the second husband is Christ; and you are the woman. The law requires much, but offers no help in the carrying out of its requirements. The Lord Jesus requires just as much, yea more, but what He requires from us He Himself carries out in us. The law makes demands and leaves us helpless to fulfill them; Christ makes demands, but He Himself fulfills in us the very demands He makes. Little wonder that the woman desires to be freed from the first husband that she may marry that other Man! But her only hope of release is through the death of her first husband, and he holds on to life most tenaciously. Indeed there is not the least prospect of his passing away (see Matthew 5:18).

The law is going to continue for all eternity. If the Law will never pass away, then how can I ever be united to Christ? How can I marry a second husband if my first husband resolutely refuses to die? There is only one way out. If HE will not die, I can die, and if I die the marriage relationship is dissolved. And that is exactly God’s way of deliverance from the Law. The most important point to note in this section of Romans 7 is the transition from verse 3 to verse 4. Verses 1 to 3 show that the husband should die, but in verse 4 we see that in fact it is the woman who dies. The Law does not pass away, but I pass away, and by death I am freed from the Law. [Footnote #15--Watchman Nee, THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE, pages 107-109 (Chapter 9).]

So what is the basis as a rule of life for the believer?

Quote: We are fully convinced that a superstructure of true, practical holiness can never be erected on a legal basis; and hence it is that we press 1 Cor 1:30, upon the attention of our readers. It is to be feared that many who have, in some measure, abandoned the legal ground, in the matter of "righteousness," are yet lingering thereon for "sanctification." We believe this to be the mistake of thousands, and we are most anxious to see it corrected. It is evident that a sinner cannot be justified by the works of the law; and it is equally evident that the law is not the rule of the believer’s life. As to the believer’s rule of life, the apostle does not say, "To me to live is the law;" but, "To me to live is Christ" (Phil. 1:21). Christ is our rule, our model, our touchstone, our all. We receive the Ten Commandments as part of the canon of inspiration; and moreover, we believe that the law remains in full force to rule and curse a man as long as he liveth. Let a sinner only try to get life by it, and see where it will put him; and let a believer only shape his way according to it, and see what it will make of him. We are fully convinced that if a man is walking according to the spirit of the gospel, he will not commit murder nor steal; but we are also convinced that a man, confining himself to the standard of the law of Moses would fall very short of the spirit of the gospel. – C.H. MACKINTOSH [Footnote #9--THE MACKINTOSH TREASURY– MISCELLANEOUS WRITINGS BY C.H.Mackintosh, p. 628, 653-654].

I stand with Paul when he wrote, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Gal. 2:20 Because of Christ, I am a new creature (Gal. 6:15-16) set apart from the Law (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:8-10; 4:24; Col. 3:10)

Peace and God bless.

Jason

Hello Jason:

A VERY GOOD POST!! Thanks.

Also, I noticed you quoted from C.H. Mackintosh. A favorite author of mine.
I don't agree with his eschatology, but he is a great writer and loved the Lord.

your servant in Messiah,
charlesj

 

[JM]

I've read much of the early Brethren writters, what do you think of them?

 

[charlesj]

I've read much of the early Brethren writters, what do you think of them?

Hello Jason:

I am assuming you mean 1800's, early 1900's? I've read a lot of 1st/2nd century writings.
I see some changes especially after the 1st century in church government.
Names changes like "Pope," etc. etc. Also, in the N.T. times the Church had elders, deacons, minister etc, but later these were also changed.

Do you have any of James Macknight's writings (1816, London) on the Apostolical Epistles? Very Good. I have a four volume set. .

A very good commentary set that I like is R.C.H. Lenski published somewhere around 1937. Lenski is a Greek scholar.
Of course I have the other commentary sets like Adam Clark, Albert Barnes, British Family Bible, Jamieson-Fausaett-Brown, etc. etc. (I guess I have about twenty commentaries I've collected over the years.) Wife screams because I'm taking up all the room in the house with my books. LOL

Some of the ol' timers I really treasure. Like I mentioned to you, I really like C.H. Mackintosh, especially his book GENESIS TO DEUTERONOMY, NOTES ON THE PENTATEUCH. I was doing a study on the sacrificial system
and Mackintosh has some real good points in his Notes on the Pentateuch. LOVE IT!

your servant in Messiah,
charelsj

P.S. You may be interested in the Power BibleCD. It's full of notes on every verse of the Bible from differenct commentators, like Adam Clark, J.T. Robertson, Barnes, etc, etc.
My minister bought me a copy of the CD about a year ago. I think it cost him $7.00. http://www.powerbible.com/
I see where it's selling for $19 now, but IT'S WORTH EVERY PENNY!

I have other bible software that cost me in the hundreds of dollars and they
aren't as good as the Power BibleCD in some areas. (I have Logos Research Bible Software and Bible Works.)