Christians please answer

[BenjaminTC]

Ok, first let me sum up my understanding of Christianity and then pose a question.

Essentially, humans are sinful beings by nature. We cannot avoid breaking at least one of god's commandments in our lifetime at some point. Because we are sinful beings and fall short of the glory of god, we die. When we die, we go to hell. The only way to avoid this is to essentially "give" our sins to Jesus who died on the cross to save mankind. The whole purpose behind the crusifiction was to allow mankind to live forever in heaven with god. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.

So far so good?

Now, let's say, I, for one reason or another, chose to pay for sins on my own. My understanding, is I would pay the punnishment in full by spending eternity in hell, which is the price for sins.

My other choice is to ask Jesus for forgiveness of my sins, giving them to Jesus so I don't have to pay for my sins. He paid the penalty in full for my sins.

Now, I ask you: Where is Jesus now? Is he in hell? He should be, if he is paying the full price for my sins. However that's not what the bible says. The bible says he was crucified, died and decended into hell and rose on the third day. He later ascended into heaven.

My question: Is Jesus still in hell? Or is the price for my sins merely 3 days in hell followed by eternity in heaven? (because this is the punnishment Jesus paid, saving the sins of the world.)

I've never gotten an answer to this question, and its been nagging me for some time.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Is Jesus still in hell? Or is the price for my sins merely 3 days in hell followed by eternity in heaven? (because this is the punnishment Jesus paid, saving the sins of the world.)

Okay, you've got some right some wrong. Let's see if I can help you out.

1. Jesus never went to Hell.
2. The price of sin is separation from God.

First, Heaven is a perfect place where nothing imperfect can exist. Jesus lived a perfect life meaning that He never sinned. When a person realizes that they aren't perfect and that they are destined to live separated from God because of their imperfections, they must choose whether or not to continue living separated from God or to accpet His free gift. The gift is that Jesus' sacrifice (His life) will be counted as your own by accepting it.

Jesus paid your debt, all you have to do is recognize that you have debt and then accept Jesus' gift.

BL

 

[cubedbee]

1. Jesus never went to Hell.

Please explain the following verses:

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth

1. The world "hell" in this verse is translated from a word which actually means death or underworld.

2. The lower parts of the earth are not considered Hell, but was a common way of expressing someone dying.

BL

 

[cubedbee]

Well then where was Jesus for those 3 days?

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Sleeping...

BL

 

[Quath]

Sleeping...

So you are saying that Jesus just fell asleep instead of died?

Quath

 

[Henry]

BenjaminTC

First of all hell in the sense of eternal punishment, does not exist untill the day of Judgement, all men will be judged and then if they are found guilty they go to hell. But hell will not be in existance untill that time.

You attempt to use circular reasoning to say that Jesus is in hell, is lacking. You need to study for a long time to really grab hold of this stuff.

Quath

You know what sleeping means.

*post edited by mod. Henry, please behave yourself.*

 

[BenjaminTC]

Let's not get off topic, and please refrain from pre-canned answers. The heart of the topic is this: Either Jesus is currently and will forever be in hell, or the punnishment for sins is less than eternity in hell, or Jesus did not fulfill the punnishment for sins therefore no one is saved.


Or Christianity is wrong.

 

[BenjaminTC]

BenjaminTC

First of all hell in the sence of eternal punishment, does not exist untill the day of Judgement, all me will be judged and then if they are found guilty they go to hell. But hell will not be in existance untill that time.

Have you ever recited the apostle's creed?

You attempt to use circular reasoning to say that Jesus is in hell, is lacking. You need to study for a long time to realy grab hold of this stuff.

Please explain how my reasoning is lacking. You can't just insult one's reasoning with no...well... reason.

Please, also, explain how my understanding of Christianity is lacking. I summed up Christianity quite well, I thought. Most people would agree with my expllination of Christianity in a nutshell. Please tell me how I'm wrong rather than just telling me I'm wrong.

 

[BenjaminTC]

2. The price of sin is separation from God.

BL[/color]

Is the separation eternal? And has or has Jesus not paid for this?

 

[Free]

BejaminTC,

The whole purpose behind the crusifiction was to allow mankind to live forever in heaven with god.

It is just as much for this life as it is for the next.

The heart of the topic is this: Either Jesus is currently and will forever be in hell, or the punnishment for sins is less than eternity in hell, or Jesus did not fulfill the punnishment for sins therefore no one is saved.


Or Christianity is wrong.

Or your understanding of Christianity and Christ's death are wrong, which they are (false dilemma).

Spending an eternity in hell is the punishment for sin, not the price. There is no "paying" for one's sin in hell.

All through the OT God mandated that a sacrifice be made to atone for one's sins - a life for a life. Jesus was God's sacrifice for man, to do what man could not do - permanently turn away God's wrath (propitiate) for those who believe in the sacrifice. The sacrifice covers our sin and allows us to be reconciled back to God.

Those who reject Christ will spend an eternity apart from him, while those who believe in him will spend eternity with him in heaven.

 

[evanman]

Jesus death was not what was required for our sins--it was the manner in which He died that was required.

Isa 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1Pe 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Is the separation eternal? And has or has Jesus not paid for this?

If one dies separated from God then they will live eternally separated from God. Jesus was not separated from God - Jesus is God and God is Jesus so it would be difficult to do that.

The bottomline is, Jesus lived a perfect life and yet died which is unjust. We can accept His perfect life as our own if we accept Him. Thus, we will be considered holy though we are far from it. Faith = Righteousness (Read Romans).

So the idea that Jesus would have had to went to Hell eternally doesn't add up.

BL

 

[sparrow]

Let's not get off topic, and please refrain from pre-canned answers. The heart of the topic is this: Either Jesus is currently and will forever be in hell, or the punnishment for sins is less than eternity in hell, or Jesus did not fulfill the punnishment for sins therefore no one is saved.


Or Christianity is wrong.

Hello Mate..


Having pondered this question before.. this is my conclusion:

Jesus.. is an infinite Being.. we are finite beings....
Now, Jesus being infinite, it still took death and three days
to pay for our sins.... three days of the all powerful infinite Creator...
Whereas we, being finite created creatures, can not fulfill the price
ourselves.

mark

 

[ThinkerMan]

we are finite beings....

If we are to spend eternity in heaven (or in my case, apparently, hell) then we are indeed infinite, and exactly as infinite as God.

Just like in math...

Infinity(eternity in heaven/hell)+X(our life span)=Infinity

Infinity(God's existance)=Infinity

Infinity=Infinity

We are exactly as infinite as God if we have eternal life.

 

[Free]

1 Cor. 15:42-50, "42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first MAN , Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

 

[sparrow]

we are finite beings....

If we are to spend eternity in heaven (or in my case, apparently, hell) then we are indeed infinite, and exactly as infinite as God.

Just like in math...

Infinity(eternity in heaven/hell)+X(our life span)=Infinity

Infinity(God's existance)=Infinity

Infinity=Infinity

We are exactly as infinite as God if we have eternal life.

such a foolish statement from one that I have come to expect better of.
:-?
do you truly think that I was discussing lifespans here...?
if so, then I apologize for not making it clearer for you..

When you have the power to create a universe and all things in it,
then you will be as infinte as God.

mark

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Eternal is probably a better word for God and people. Infinite would indicate that we existed forever prior to our conception which just isn't true. We have a starting point, God doesn't.

BL

 

[ThinkerMan]

such a foolish statement from one that I have come to expect better of.

Touche sparrow! Great back-handed compliment...haha!

I was analyzing the context of what Sparrow said, namely it was in the context of TIME, not omnipotence, which he later clarified.

He alluded to the fact that as finite beings, we are unable to "fulfill the price", and I assumed he was speaking of time.

However, my logic is sound, I believe. Regardless of whether there is a starting point or not, BOTH are infinite because neither have an ending point. The math I used was an analogy to illustrate the point.

Eternal vs Infinite is semantics....if we live forever, we are eternal AND infinite in the sense of time. And mathematically, we are exactly as infinite and eternal as god.