Christians say to me: "how come you don't believe in prayer?"

[Lucian Hodoboc]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

 

[Free]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

Then there is likely something wrong and it isn’t prayer itself, just as it wouldn’t be exercise itself, unless God wants you to keep praying for something specific. How can one be a Christian and not believe in prayer?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

The inferior (you) does not control the superior (God). You seem to believe that God is obligated to respond in a particular way to your prayer as a proof of your prayers effectiveness. Doesn't work that way.
Jesus asked that the cup (his death) be taken away. It didn't happen; it is not your will but God's that will occur.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

Greetings, Lucian.

My answer to things like this is simple. The best way to develop a closeness with the Lord is through His word. He wants us to get to know Him first and foremost, and the reason is this: In order to answer your prayers, what He needs is for your will to increasingly line up with His will, because His plans are greater than yours, and His wisdom is greater.

I can't say for certain in your case because I don't know what your prayers are, but this is why many people don't see their prayers answered. They ask for things He knows would not ultimately be in their best interest at the current time.

If I may, what have you been praying for that you have not seen answered?

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

Thanks for sharing, btw.

 

[miamited]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

Hi Lucian Hodoboc

Those are some sad words to hear from a believer. I'm sorry that you've lost your ability to share with your heavenly Father. Jesus is likely going to miss you, also. I hope you'll reconsider your relationship with your God and Father.

 

[myangelsb4u]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

Lucian Hodoboc Welcome to CFN. It all depends on what you have been praying for?

 

[Fastfredy0]

It all depends on what you have been praying for?

Yeah, if you pray that God's will be done then you will be batting 1000.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

You seem to believe that God is obligated to respond in a particular way to your prayer as a proof of your prayers effectiveness.

I seem to believe what the Bible repeatedly promises, and that is what the Bible repeatedly promises. You can dance around the promises and try to make mental gymnastics about how they don't mean what they're actually saying all you want, but it doesn't changes the fact that there are numerous clear, unambiguous promises -- some coming from Jesus Himself -- in the Bible about how prayers said with faith will be answered. Even prayers that don't necessarily benefit others, such as moving mountains.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I seem to believe what the Bible repeatedly promises, and that is what the Bible repeatedly promises. You can dance around the promises and try to make mental gymnastics about how they don't mean what they're actually saying all you want, but it doesn't changes the fact that there are numerous clear, unambiguous promises -- some coming from Jesus Himself -- in the Bible about how prayers said with faith will be answered. Even prayers that don't necessarily benefit others, such as moving mountains.

You make a lot of claims but don't site verses. I will site verses to support my claim ..

John 13 And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

What does "in my name' mean? https://www.gotquestions.org/pray-Jesus-name.html
Some misapply this verse, thinking that saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer results in God’s always granting what is asked for. This is essentially treating the words “in Jesus’ name” as a magic formula. This is absolutely unbiblical. Praying in Jesus’ name means praying with His authority and asking God the Father to act upon our prayers because we come in the name of His Son, Jesus. Praying in Jesus’ name means the same thing as praying according to the will of God.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

 

[miamited]

Some misapply this verse, thinking that saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer results in God’s always granting what is asked for. This is essentially treating the words “in Jesus’ name” as a magic formula. This is absolutely unbiblical. Praying in Jesus’ name means praying with His authority and asking God the Father to act upon our prayers because we come in the name of His Son, Jesus. Praying in Jesus’ name means the same thing as praying according to the will of God.

Hi Lucian Hodoboc

This I agree with. When we pray, as born again believers, then the things that we pray for will be things that matter to God. Praying that God put someone in your life with whom you can tell them about Jesus, will always be answered. Praying that the Knicks win the game, not so.

So first, I would ask, are the things you're asking for, since you seem to see prayer as just a place to go and sit down and ask God for all the things you believe that you need, in God's will for you? I mean, do you believe that they are?

Do you remember Paul? He had an issue, and we don't know what it was, but he spoke to God about praying three times to take it away. As far as we know, God never took away the issue, but explained to Paul that there was a purpose for the issue. So I'm just saying that making the decision that the God of the Scriptures doesn't exist, or that He doesn't love you, based on a few prayers that you feel haven't been answered to YOUR satisfaction seems a rather thoughtless way to decide if the God of the Scriptures exists or is worthy of your allegiance and praise.

Now prayers are spoken of quite a bit in the Scriptures. Jesus mentioned it at least a dozen times and so for one of those who claims to be his to come and say that they don't believe in prayer is like the guy sitting soaking in a bathtub and claiming that he doesn't believe in water. We, those who are born again believers, and most of those who refer to themselves as christians, absolutely believe in prayer. We've had many answered. Jesus spoke of prayer and several times throughout the new covenant writings we are commanded to pray.

My encouragement is that you sit down in prayer and ask God, through the power of His Holy Spirit, to give you understanding and discernment regarding the matter. I'm fairly confident that if you are one of God's children, then you're going to find that prayer is one of the most important privileges and rights that we believers enjoy in spending time with our God and Father and His Son, Jesus. I even pray to the Holy Spirit. Whenever I'm sitting down to study the Scriptures I always start with prayer asking that the Holy Spirit give me understanding of the things that I read.

So prayer isn't about just asking God for what you believe you need and if you don't get it, you're done. Prayer is about a constant, unbroken and faithful line of communication to our Creator, our God and our Savior. Pray on it, brother.

 

[miamited]

I seem to believe what the Bible repeatedly promises, and that is what the Bible repeatedly promises. You can dance around the promises and try to make mental gymnastics about how they don't mean what they're actually saying all you want, but it doesn't changes the fact that there are numerous clear, unambiguous promises -- some coming from Jesus Himself -- in the Bible about how prayers said with faith will be answered. Even prayers that don't necessarily benefit others, such as moving mountains.

Hi Lucian Hodoboc

Again, I would ask you, what is it that you're saying here? Is it your position then, that because some prayers haven't been answered that you don't believe the Scriptures are true? Or is it just that you're not going to waste your time praying any longer, but you believe yourself to have a strong relationship with Jesus?

You're complaint above seems to be that what Jesus said must not be true because your prayers aren't answered. Is that a correct understanding?

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

You make a lot of claims but don't site verses. I will site verses to support my claim ..

Here you go:

Mark 16:15-18
"15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”"

Mark 11:12-14, 20-26
"20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!” 22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26]"

James 5:14-16​

"Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

What does "in my name' mean? https://www.gotquestions.org/pray-Jesus-name.html
Some misapply this verse, thinking that saying “in Jesus’ name” at the end of a prayer results in God’s always granting what is asked for. This is essentially treating the words “in Jesus’ name” as a magic formula. This is absolutely unbiblical. Praying in Jesus’ name means praying with His authority and asking God the Father to act upon our prayers because we come in the name of His Son, Jesus. Praying in Jesus’ name means the same thing as praying according to the will of God.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

There you go. Exactly what I was saying above. Typical Christian apologetics, claiming that what the Bible clearly says is not what the speaker actually meant. God did not speak in metaphors when He told Moses how to build the tabernacle. He did not speak in metaphors when He guided the people of Israel and their kings over many centuries. He did not speak in metaphors when He explained the sacrificial system in the Old Testament, nor did He speak in metaphors when He explained through the prophets that repentance is the only necessary thing for life.

Why did He all of a sudden start speaking in metaphors when He sent Jesus to Earth to preach things of utmost importance, namely salvation and prayer?

If Jesus said things that could be interpreted in numerous ways, then that's His problem. I'm going to take the ad litteram version of His statements, as they are found in the Bible.

Also, here is why your interpretation of that verse doesn't make sense:
1. Jesus stated that there will be people who will say to Him that they cast out demons in His name, but He will tell them that He did not know them
2. Jesus stated that satan cannot cast out demons because a house divided cannot stand
3. If those people did cast out demons in Jesus' name, then they could have only done so through the power of God
4. If they did cast out demons through the power of God, then that means that it is God's will to cast out demons through people whom He doesn't know
5. If God's will is to cast out demons through people whom He doesn't know, then why would it not be His will to cast out demons through Christians? Why would it not be His will to grant the prayers of Christians? It doesn't make sense.

 

[hawkman]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

If the gym you attended had a swimming pool and and you swam an hour for your workout everyday you would still be thin but in much better condition . Not a sin to be thin .

"Christians say to me: "how come you don't believe in prayer?"​

I would like to know what brought this on , did you tell other Christians you do not believe in prayer ?

I have don't remember ever asking another Christian "how come you don't believe in prayer ? "

God knows what we have need of before we ask . Matt 6:8 .

Brother Lucian Hodoboc , we have a forum for posting prayer requests and you don't have to specify your request if you don't want to , other than just to say you need prayer . We will pray for you .

Prayers and Testimonies

Share your prayers, praise reports and testimonies with others! Moderated by: hawkman

christianforums.net

 

[Fastfredy0]

Mark 16:15-18

Verse 17 has "in my name" which qualifies the meaning. I already addressed this in post #10 and gave an gotquestions.org citation on the subject.

Mark 11:12-14, 20-26

Granted, the verse do not have qualifiers. I show by way of a question that there must be qualifiers that I grant are not in the verses.
Example:
So if you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it and you pray that God will tell a lie do you actually think that God will answer your prayer in the affirmative? If you interpretation is correct God must either:
1) tell a lie or
2) not grant your prayer request which according to your interpretation is a lie
..... you've force God to lie. Your interpretation has brutal repercussions IMO.

James 5:14-16

The passage raises a number of difficult interpretive questions. What kind of suffering does James have in view in verse 13? What type of sickness is in view in verse 14? Why are the prayers of the elders different from those of other believers (vv. 14–15)? What is the anointing with oil described in verse 14? Does the prayer of faith (v. 15) always restore the sick? How does sickness relate to sin (v. 15)? What type of healing is in view in verse 16? Why does James insert an illustration about rain (vv. 17–18) into the middle of a discussion of healing?
The key to answering those questions and properly interpreting the passage lies in understanding it in its context. The Bible is not a random collection of verses that may be interpreted in isolation. To properly understand any passage one must interpret it in light of the paragraphs immediately preceding and following it, the chapter or section it is in, and the book containing it. Context provides the flow of thought in which any given passage of Scripture exists. To ignore context is to sacrifice a proper interpretation; it has well been said that a text without a context is a pretext. Therefore, before attempting to interpret this challenging passage, a review of the context in which it was written is essential and helpful. John MacArthur
I won't belabor the answer. Context matters.
There is a simple hermeuneutic: When in doubt use other explicit verses to interpret implicit verses. Given the so many contrary interpretations of these verse I would definitely categorize these as IMPLICIT (confusing) verses.

Also, here is why your interpretation of that verse doesn't make sense:
1. Jesus stated that there will be people who will say to Him that they cast out demons in His name, but He will tell them that He did not know them

The verses I gave was in regard to believers prayer requests. This is irrelevant as it is in regard to unbelievers.

2. Jesus stated that satan cannot cast out demons because a house divided cannot stand

The verses I gave was in regard to believers prayer requests. This is irrelevant as it is in regard to satan.

3. If those people did cast out demons in Jesus' name, then they could have only done so through the power of God

Agreed, but not relevant. The verses I gave was in regard to believers prayer requests which is the subject we are discussing.

4. If they did cast out demons through the power of God, then that means that it is God's will to cast out demons through people whom He doesn't know

Agreed. God can use unbelievers and satan to accomplish His goals. I.E. Satan given permission to persecute Job.

5. If God's will is to cast out demons through people whom He doesn't know, then why would it not be His will to cast out demons through Christians?

On some occasions it may be God's will. You'd have to ask Him.
Aside: Technically, the WHY question does not apply to God for it suggests there is an external reason for God to do this or that. God is NOT effected by others; He is not controlled in any way.
Job 35:7, Job 23:13, Psalm 33:15 , Acts 17:25
But to drive even deeper ... why would God answers your prayers when:
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

God can only execute the BEST PLAN if it is HIS plan, therefore your prayers better be in accordance to His will.
Ephesians 1:9,11 He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, … 11 In Him also we have received an inheritance [a destiny—we were claimed by God as His own], having been predestined (chosen, appointed beforehand) according to the purpose of Him who works everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His will ... HIS WILL, NOT YOURS ... IN JESUS NAME (HIS WILL), NOT YOURS.

Systematic theology books look at the whole picture. Individual verses can be misleading.

 

[Consecrated Life]

If you went to the gym and worked out almost every single day for 5 years, and after 5 years you looked in the mirror and you realized that you are as thin as a rake, you'd probably reconsider the efficiency of working out.

Same thing happened to me with prayer.

From your own words in comparing working out.
Working out being all about you and no one else .
Jesus left us a record of how to pray and what He taught was not all about , Me, Myself, and I
" Give US this day ..."
" Forgive US our trespasses as WE forgive...."

Humility in prayer is not about never thinking of yourself, it is about not thinking of yourself before all others.

If you are going to pray for just yourself , here is prayer of life & death importance that uses your "working out analogy" that I can promise you God will honor and answer for you .

"Dear Jesus , as I look in the mirror and see this body of decaying flesh growing older, thinner, and weaker every year , please tell me Lord where will I live when this body is dead and cold" ?

John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 

[Vaccine]

I remember when I was a kid praying for a bike. When I didn't get said bike I said to myself, "Welp, this player stuff is a bunch of bunk" and stopped believing in God.
Twenty some years later, I became a Christian.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Some people don't understand how prayer works. Going in with incorrect expectations, then drawing the wrong conclusion once those expectations aren't met doesn't make a persuasive case against prayer. Rather it demonstrates something's missing.

The Bible says "...The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16. Do you consider yourself a righteous man?

Also, are you here looking for a way to fix your prayer life, or just looking to debate prayer in general?

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

In order to answer your prayers, what He needs is for your will to increasingly line up with His will, because His plans are greater than yours, and His wisdom is greater.

That is not Biblical. Nowhere can you find said caveat in the promises of Jesus regarding faith and answered prayers. Nowhere did He add "if it's in God's will" at the end of His promises. The fact that The Lord's Prayer contains the statement "Thy will be done" does not invalidate the numerous Biblical promises that all the prayers said with faith will be granted.

Granted, the verse do not have qualifiers. I show by way of a question that there must be qualifiers that I grant are not in the verses.
Example:
So if you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it and you pray that God will tell a lie do you actually think that God will answer your prayer in the affirmative? If you interpretation is correct God must either:
1) tell a lie or
2) not grant your prayer request which according to your interpretation is a lie
..... you've force God to lie. Your interpretation has brutal repercussions IMO.

God can do anything, including tell lies, and He will make it clear to you that it's a lie. To lie is not always the same as to deceive. You can tell a lie to someone after you've informed them that you will be telling them a lie. God could simply grand said prayer by stating: I will tell a lie to you: all grass is blue. That was the lie.

 

[Free]

That is not Biblical. Nowhere can you find said caveat in the promises of Jesus regarding faith and answered prayers. Nowhere did He add "if it's in God's will" at the end of His promises. The fact that The Lord's Prayer contains the statement "Thy will be done" does not invalidate the numerous Biblical promises that all the prayers said with faith will be granted.

Then you're not taking the full teaching on prayer as given in Scripture. Jesus says more than that and the NT as a whole says more than that. That prayer is to be according to God's will should go without saying. God isn't going to give everything asked in prayer just because it was asked. He isn't a genie.

Luk 22:41 And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed,
Luk 22:42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”
Luk 22:43 And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44 And being in agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (ESV)

Joh 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)

Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (ESV)

Act 12:5 So Peter was kept in prison, but earnest prayer for him was made to God by the church. (ESV)

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. (ESV)

Rom 15:30 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, (ESV)

Eph 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
Eph 6:18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, (ESV)

Jas 4:2 You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.
Jas 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. (ESV)

Jas 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. (ESV)

1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God;
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. (ESV)

And on it goes. There are conditions to prayer being answered. As I stated earlier, if God isn't giving you what you're asking for in prayer, then likely something is wrong--with what you're asking for, how you're asking for it, your spiritual life, lack of true faith, etc. However, it could be that God wants you to persevere in prayer. Some people pray for the same thing for decades before seeing a prayer answered.

I strongly suggest, if you haven't done so, to read some books on prayer, such as Prayer: The Cry for the Kingdom, by Stanley Grenz and The Power of Prayer and the Prayer of Power, by R. A. Torrey.

God can do anything, including tell lies, and He will make it clear to you that it's a lie. To lie is not always the same as to deceive. You can tell a lie to someone after you've informed them that you will be telling them a lie. God could simply grand said prayer by stating: I will tell a lie to you: all grass is blue. That was the lie.

Why would anyone tell a "lie" by prefacing it by saying they're going to tell them it's a lie? What purpose would that serve? A lie is, by definition, either something intended to mislead or deceive, or it something that is false or inaccurate but may be believed to be true by the speaker. Otherwise it serves no purpose. So, no, God cannot do anything, including lie.

 

[Fastfredy0]

God can do anything, including tell lies

God says He cannot lie and you say He can. I think I will agree with God. You give you the chance to give examples of God lying to prove your point.
Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18