Church looses tax exempt status after naked paint parties

[Brother Mike]

chicago.suntimes.com/nationworld/7/71/431909/church-naked-paint-parties-loses-tax-exempt-status

Not sure the link will work, the tablet post some strange looking links.

Firefox beta:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-church-with-naked-paint-parties-loses-tax-exempt-status/

I guess one Church took Peter very seriously when Peter said........

1Pe 3:3 kjva Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

Women are not suppose to do their hair, wear Jewerly or put on cloths. One Church in Flordia thought to follow this scripture to the letter and put on a Naked Paint Party. There was not suppose to be any drinking or drugs, but lot's of paint and naked church members. There was a 20.00 cover fee at the door.

Despite the rules for no drinking, inside were t-shirts on the wall saying, "I Hate being sober" I am pretty sure they ment we are to be filled with the Holy Spirit or drunk in the Spirit. What else would a church mean by these t-shirts?

Public officials who did not comprehend their use of scipture to throw such parties have removed their tax exempt status saying, "This is NO Church"

The Tax exempt status is to help churches thrive, make some money to keep running. Officials said it was a fraud to tax payers to have a Church act in this manner.

I am sure every business in America would apply for tax exempt status if there were not some guidelines to follow.

View attachment 6195
NAKED PAINT PARTIES HERE. ONLY 20.00 AT DOOR!

Naked paint parties might be faulty doctine, but does the state have a right to decided that?

If the State can remove tax exempt status for what it considers bad doctrine, should it not clean out the hundreds of other churches preaching error and make them pay taxes?

Should a church even seek Tax exempt status to invovle themselves with this type of judgement?

Should the States even allow tax exempt status for folks that want to call their building a Church?

There is a whole lot here I believe could be thought about. Who makes the State the Judge when someone else says it's God?

Mike.

 

[Gary]

Who makes the State the Judge when someone else says it's God?

501c3
.

 

[Brother Mike]

501c3
.

Wife is wanting to sell Poems the Holy Spirit gave her. Is that a business, or tax exempt if it's ministery. Many Churches sell materials, have meals people can buy to help cover cost of running things. We have looked at 501c3 and it seems to do more harm than good.

A church is tax exempt anyway because.

Nobody has to file taxes, no law states you have to.
A church is not a legal reconized entity so it does not have to pay taxes.
Churches are exempt without the 501c3.
There is no language in 501c3 about what needs preached or can't be preached.

I am not sure the church above was a 501c3 church, it does not say. They will be forced to pay taxes now.

Is having to pay 20.00 at the door for a naked paint party any different than what other Churches do?

The problem I have is that officials said Naked Paint Parties are not "Churchy" enough to qualify to stay tax exempt. That is a moral call.

I agree, but there are lots of Bad and just as harmful churches who do not have Naked paint parties, but preach harmful things.

That is my issue.

 

[jasonc]

right, so I shouldn't file then this year? yeah if its not over a lot I would get away with that but I know a man who did that and did about 5 years for that. nevermind that the IRS collects for social security. if you work for yourself you must pay the irs all taxes to include federal, fica and medicare and match them.

 

[Brother Mike]

right, so I shouldn't file then this year? yeah if its not over a lot I would get away with that but I know a man who did that and did about 5 years for that. nevermind that the IRS collects for social security. if you work for yourself you must pay the irs all taxes to include federal, fica and medicare and match them.

Nobody said anything about not paying taxes. I said no law says you have to file. If you owe taxes then you should pay them, if you are getting money back then you should file.

If your tax exempt, then it's none of the IRS's business what you did with any money. This is the issue Brother Copeland ran into and won.

So, if a Church does not file or do anything, nothing will be said most likely.

The Church I mentioned in the post though is forced now to pay taxes, and lost any tax exempt status they had due to a disagreement in doctrines about having naked paint parties.

Does the State qualify to have enough scriptural knowledge to tell a church they are no longer tax exempt by a doctine they don't like?

 

[jasonc]

Nobody said anything about not paying taxes. I said no law says you have to file. If you owe taxes then you should pay them, if you are getting money back then you should file.

If your tax exempt, then it's none of the IRS's business what you did with any money. This is the issue Brother Copeland ran into and won.

So, if a Church does not file or do anything, nothing will be said most likely.

The Church I mentioned in the post though is forced now to pay taxes, and lost any tax exempt status they had due to a disagreement in doctrines about having naked paint parties.

Does the State qualify to have enough scriptural knowledge to tell a church they are no longer tax exempt by a doctine they don't like?

uhm no they do have to file. why? they pay employee taxes and must report that so If they don't file YOU don't get medicare or ss credits. while this can be abused. if you owe must file if you don't owe you must file. how would get you money back? that is a silly statement if you think that you shouldn't file. how else are you going to get that money and we wouldn't cheat the government ? no, never.

I do have issues with the idea of a 501 deal but also on the other if the government has no teeth then the pastor and church leaders can use an abuse your donations and there wouldn't be any recourse.

 

[Brother Mike]

uhm no they do have to file. why? they pay employee taxes and must report that so If they don't file YOU don't get medicare or ss credits. while this can be abused. if you owe must file if you don't owe you must file. how would get you money back? that is a silly statement if you think that you shouldn't file. how else are you going to get that money and we wouldn't cheat the government ? no, never.

I do have issues with the idea of a 501 deal but also on the other if the government has no teeth then the pastor and church leaders can use an abuse your donations and there wouldn't be any recourse.

We are assuming they had paid employee's, assuming they had 5013c, the article did not exlain any of that. It just said that by their doctrine, they lost their tax exempt status.

I have Churches around here that have a food thing twice a week and charge for it to help pay for church things like power, and stuff. Some around here sell baked goods.

The Church I mentioned charged 20.00 at the door to get in.

They lost their exempt status because of the activity in the Church. "Naked Paint Party" I don't even know what that is exactly.

So the Thread is not really about how their tax structure is set up, but about the Goverment making a judgement about their doctrine and removing their tax exempt status.

 

[Gary]

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you for Sharing that Gary. I am not sure the Church had a 501c3. I will have the wife watch the video as she has been looking at her tax and ministery situation.

 

[Obadiah]

Wife is wanting to sell Poems the Holy Spirit gave her. Is that a business, or tax exempt if it's ministry.

If she can do it withing the provisions of 501(c)3 then she is a ministry. If not, she is a "for profit business".

Nobody has to file taxes, no law states you have to.

Yes, Federal law 26 U.S.C. § 6012(a) states you have to unless you meet certain conditions which most people and businesses don't meet.

A church is not a legal reconized entity so it does not have to pay taxes.

You'll need to show some kind of proof of that. My understanding is that a church certainly is an "entity" and this was upheld by a government audit done on the last church where I was on the board.

I am not sure the church above was a 501c3 church, it does not say.

It was probably not said because they didn't want to state the obvious. It says their tax exempt status was removed. For that status to have been removed it had to have been granted in the first place. For most churches that is granted through 501(c)3.

The problem I have is that officials said Naked Paint Parties are not "Churchy" enough to qualify to stay tax exempt. That is a moral call.

This is true. It doesn't seem like the government should have the right to determine what religion is ok and what religion is not ok as long as their members are not doing anything illegal.

Of course, this wasn't exactly a mainline Christian church. I'd be willing to bet there is more to the story than a naked painting party.

 

[Brother Mike]

If she can do it withing the provisions of 501(c)3 then she is a ministry. If not, she is a "for profit business".
Yes, Federal law 26 U.S.C. § 6012(a) states you have to unless you meet certain conditions which most people and businesses don't meet.
You'll need to show some kind of proof of that. My understanding is that a church certainly is an "entity" and this was upheld by a government audit done on the last church where I was on the board.

It was probably not said because they didn't want to state the obvious. It says their tax exempt status was removed. For that status to have been removed it had to have been granted in the first place. For most churches that is granted through 501(c)3.

This is true. It doesn't seem like the government should have the right to determine what religion is ok and what religion is not ok as long as their members are not doing anything illegal.

Of course, this wasn't exactly a mainline Christian church. I'd be willing to bet there is more to the story than a naked painting party.

That is a good point, they would have had to be under 501c3 to have it revoked. Not all Churches sign up for that.

I am sure there is lots more than what the news printed also. It might have been a night club every day, raking in money under the guise as a church. Who knows?

I don't have an oppion on this and no judgement for having "Naked Paint Parties" whatever that entails.

My concern is the State dictating what is right scripturally. They lost their exempt tax status which is the State's right, but could this lead to other things that might not be so right?

A sherrif made the quote "This is No Church" Based on what He believed Church should be. I am willing to bet he is right this time.

There has been Goverment officials who have tried to make all churches pay taxes unless they prove that they are feeding people and taking care of the Homeless.
Spending millions to get the Word preached they said is not what is important.

I am just asking oppinions, I am on the fence here.

Thank you for that Post Obadiah. Helped sort some things out.

 

[Tony Hyman]

My first impression of this post was instinctively to think in terms of I Kings 16:30- 33 "Ahab son of Omri...did more evil in the eyes of the Lord than any of those before him.31. He not only considered it trivial to commit the sins of Jeroboam ...,but he also married Zezebel daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians, and began to serve Baal and worship him.32. He set up an altar for Baal in the temple of Baal that he built in Samaria.33. Ahab also made an Ahshera pole and did more to provoke the Lord, the God of Israel , to anger than did all the kings of Israel before him."N.I.V.

A bit of background for those who don't know (G. Ernest Write Ed.Great People of The Bible...206)"Since Baalism was a nature cult ,worshippers joined the priests and temple prostitutes in sacred orgies before the altar , especially at the new-year celebration.Then they acted out the reproductive theme so that the gods , who controlled earth and water, would follow their example and improve the fertility of agriculture, animals and man.In times of crises- such as a famine or war - these cultists sacrificed firstborn children in the sacred fire to summon the help of their god's"Obviously this situation is not as bad.But then one thing always leads to the next.
I am only guessing, but it is highly feasible that a member/members of the Tax People might also have read
or heard a Sermon on these lines and left with no option other than"Well ;if they want to behave like a Brothel lets treat them like one."

 

[Brother Mike]

My first impression of this post was instinctively to think in terms of I Kings 16:30- 33 "Ahab son of Omri...did more evil in the eyes of the Lord than any of those before him.31. He not only considered it trivial to commit the sins of Jeroboam ...,but he also married Zezebel daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians, and began to serve Baal and worship him.32. He set up an altar for Baal in the temple of Baal that he built in Samaria.33. Ahab also made an Ahshera pole and did more to provoke the Lord, the God of Israel , to anger than did all the kings of Israel before him."N.I.V.

A bit of background for those who don't know (G. Ernest Write Ed.Great People of The Bible...206)"Since Baalism was a nature cult ,worshippers joined the priests and temple prostitutes in sacred orgies before the altar , especially at the new-year celebration.Then they acted out the reproductive theme so that the gods , who controlled earth and water, would follow their example and improve the fertility of agriculture, animals and man.In times of crises- such as a famine or war - these cultists sacrificed firstborn children in the sacred fire to summon the help of their god's"Obviously this situation is not as bad.But then one thing always leads to the next.
I am only guessing, but it is highly feasible that a member/members of the Tax People might also have read
or heard a Sermon on these lines and left with no option other than"Well ;if they want to behave like a Brothel lets treat them like one."

Thank you for the insight Tony. I have been trying to find out if this was an actual church that preached the Word, or did it start as something else. The sheriff said this is no church. I assume he thought it was a bible church.

My question to you is, even though it turned into a Brothel, or something we might not approve of.

Is that any different than a church not preaching what we believe about scripture?

There are doctrines more dangerous than a Naked Paint party. At a Naked Paint party I think to know what to expect, no deception there. False doctrine might sound right and be deadly though.

Or.

If they honesly felt they were following scripture by having Naked Paint Parties, and they felt it was scriptural, then should they not still be tax exempt?

If they were knowenly useing the Church thing as a cover for a night club that does not pay taxes, that is wrong.


The whole thing just seems strange.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Here's the question, if they were any other religious group (atheist satanist, hedonist?), would this have happened?

 

[Brother Mike]

Here's the question, if they were any other religious group (atheist satanist, hedonist?), would this have happened?

Good question. 5013c covers other groups besides Christian churches. They have to meet certain guidelines when it comes to money I think as the language in 5013c is a bit complicated for me.

I am pretty sure they would be covered.

 

[jasonc]

We are assuming they had paid employee's, assuming they had 5013c, the article did not exlain any of that. It just said that by their doctrine, they lost their tax exempt status.

I have Churches around here that have a food thing twice a week and charge for it to help pay for church things like power, and stuff. Some around here sell baked goods.

The Church I mentioned charged 20.00 at the door to get in.

They lost their exempt status because of the activity in the Church. "Naked Paint Party" I don't even know what that is exactly.

So the Thread is not really about how their tax structure is set up, but about the Goverment making a judgement about their doctrine and removing their tax exempt status.

http://www.newsherald.com/spring-br...-exemption-after-opening-club-1.448871?page=1

on needs a liquor license to sell alcohol and they didn't read the comment by the property appraiser. its not even any church at all. just an excuse to break the law and they got caught.

 

[Deborah13]

chicago.suntimes.com/nationworld/7/71/431909/church-naked-paint-parties-loses-tax-exempt-status

Not sure the link will work, the tablet post some strange looking links.

Firefox beta:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-church-with-naked-paint-parties-loses-tax-exempt-status/

I guess one Church took Peter very seriously when Peter said........

1Pe 3:3 kjva Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

Women are not suppose to do their hair, wear Jewerly or put on cloths. One Church in Flordia thought to follow this scripture to the letter and put on a Naked Paint Party. There was not suppose to be any drinking or drugs, but lot's of paint and naked church members. There was a 20.00 cover fee at the door.

Despite the rules for no drinking, inside were t-shirts on the wall saying, "I Hate being sober" I am pretty sure they ment we are to be filled with the Holy Spirit or drunk in the Spirit. What else would a church mean by these t-shirts?

Public officials who did not comprehend their use of scipture to throw such parties have removed their tax exempt status saying, "This is NO Church"

The Tax exempt status is to help churches thrive, make some money to keep running. Officials said it was a fraud to tax payers to have a Church act in this manner.

I am sure every business in America would apply for tax exempt status if there were not some guidelines to follow.

View attachment 6195
NAKED PAINT PARTIES HERE. ONLY 20.00 AT DOOR!

Naked paint parties might be faulty doctine, but does the state have a right to decided that?

If the State can remove tax exempt status for what it considers bad doctrine, should it not clean out the hundreds of other churches preaching error and make them pay taxes?

Should a church even seek Tax exempt status to invovle themselves with this type of judgement?

Should the States even allow tax exempt status for folks that want to call their building a Church?

There is a whole lot here I believe could be thought about. Who makes the State the Judge when someone else says it's God?

Mike.

This had nothing to do with being income tax exempt like a 501. This has to do with Property taxes on the land and building.
The property owner had the property list as being used for a church and had it that way for many years. But the property was not being used for a religious organization, as their own website proved. There were no religious church services held on that property. So his land and building are no longer classified as tax exempt.
See article Jason posted.

 

[Pizza]

That is no church:
The Life Center: A Spiritual Community has been operating a seven-day-a-week party called Amnesia: The Tabernacle since Feb. 28.

A sign on the door says events are alcohol and drug free, but Sheriff Frank McKeithen calls the party atmosphere a "blatant slap in the face" to taxpayers. He says church officials are "trying to get around the laws."

Patrons are charged a "donation" of $20 at the door. On the walls inside are T-shirts emblazoned with obscene gestures and signs that say "I hate being sober."

This led Property Appraiser Dan Sowell to change the tax-exempt status.

"I've been in a lot of nightclubs and I've been in a lot of churches," Panama City Beach Police Chief Drew Whitman told the News Herald. "That isn't a church."
NO, it isn't. It's a tax evasion scam.

 

[Brother Mike]

This had nothing to do with being income tax exempt like a 501. This has to do with Property taxes on the land and building.
The property owner had the property list as being used for a church and had it that way for many years. But the property was not being used for a religious organization, as their own website proved. There were no religious church services held on that property. So his land and building are no longer classified as tax exempt.
See article Jason posted.

Well, that makes a lot more sense than the little article I read when the news first came out. The way the first Article came out with news of the types of t-shirts and things, and the Sherrif saying this is no church, it appeared that it was a church gone crazy.

The headline (Which is often misleading) Read Church looses it's tax exempt status.

I guess it never was a churh in it's current state but enjoying tax exempt status.

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Brother Mike]

http://www.newsherald.com/spring-br...-exemption-after-opening-club-1.448871?page=1

on needs a liquor license to sell alcohol and they didn't read the comment by the property appraiser. its not even any church at all. just an excuse to break the law and they got caught.

Well, that is a whole lot more information than the first news reports. Makes sense now.