swordofpeace
Member
[Note: This is cross posted from my original at reasonablefaith.org. I wanted others to be able to see it. No it's not the most major issue, but even minor issues are important to God and man. He who is faithful with little will be given charge over much.]
Hello all,
This is a post about the evil of modern day circumcision. First of all, circumcision at all does not apply to new covenant believers. I think the New Testament is pretty clear about that. What is required is circumcision of the heart.
But even Old Covenant circumcision has little to do with what is done today. Actually what is done today- taking off 1/3 to 1/2 of the skin of the newborn babe, pulling it by force away from the glans, to which it is strongly attached, and leaving the genitals highly mutilated, weakened and incapable of very much the sensitivity for which it was created- that actually dates to 140AD and guess who we can thank for that practice? You guessed it, none other than our old friends, the pharisees..essentially, combined with some more modern influences like Victorian ethics and medicine, and modern medicine
But yes, original "circumcision" "Milah" in Hebrew tradition, was nothing like that of today. Only a very small cut was made in what is the true foreskin, that which extends beyond the glans (head). Not some great pulling away from the head, and total mutilation of that which has many many positive functions and features, which God created and called good. What a tragedy when you learn all that has been lost.
But the story is like this: ready for some conspiracy and fraud and history? The Greeks and Romans liked to have public baths in the nude, and also do their athletics in the nude, and to really be part of society, and also for promotion of business, you had to associate in the nude in these places. Well Jews were circumcised (Milah- just a little cut) but even this the Greeks/Romans found abhorrent. So they developed the process of epispasm, restoration, whereby the skin can be regrown through stretching. New cells form- and this can still be done today even by those who have lost almost all. Well , the Rabbis didn't like that people were doing this, so they added to the law. They developed Periah! Why do the pharisees, the brood of vipers, keep adding to God's law. God said "Do not eat from the tree of life". He didn't say "Don't look at it, or don't touch it". But we humans- we like to keep adding to things that God never commanded. We make the 10 commandments into 10,000 commandments, because we are a wicked and corrupt generation.
Thank you pharisees and rabbis for your traditions, which have poisoned parts of the west. Then comes Victorian ethics and medicine, which says that masturbation is a cause of all bad things, and people start saying that circumcision cures masturbation, so they start circumcising, in the Periah tradition which they learned from the Jews! What baby would choose to have this done? Really it's a sin against human rights, and against God who created us in his image! There will be blood for blood, justice and shame in the coming kingdom. If anybody who is reading this who performs these operations, I suggest you repent and get right with God. Also, if you're american, start upholding the equal protection amendment, which gives men and women equal rights under the law.
Anyways all the 'evidence' that masturbation causes all these bad things falls away, and all the evidence that circumcision is otherwise healthy falls away or is not found. But modern medicine, which in many ways is evil, because it is earthly and self-serving, like most every other organization, decides that it wants to continue the practice. It invents justification and guess what else it does? It sells the babies cut tissues with their undifferentiated fibroblast cells, which are very valuable, to cosmetic and other companies, for profit. I wonder if the parents new that medicine was doing this? And if anything, shouldn't they belong to the infant? For shame! For shame! For shame! This is why I believe judgment is coming and must come on them. I don't know if anything is more evil and earthly minded than that, profiting off such a horror. It affects women as well as men, because women are the sexual partners of men, the 'end users' as one put it. Not only the sexual partners either but the emotional partners, and soul partners, and there is evidence for damage here to the psyche. Basically I think it creates both trauma and loss. The trauma lies in the circumcision. The loss lies in the 'being circumcized- i.e. the loss of many valuable functions". I won't get into them all of the traumas and losses here, but they are many, and I'm sure profoundly affect relationships, including those who avoid relationships, and profoundly affect the men on the street- how social they are and how well they can get along and be productive. Look at who circumcizes- Americans and the Islam world, primarily! Look at how harmonious these countries are in themselves and with each other!
I'm not saying it's a 1:1 deterministic relationship. I do think there can be a benefit, and that it can make a person more compassionate- but only after much processing. Who is doing the processing? Most people don't even know consciously what has been done to them, although they know unconsciously, as I did for a long while, before by the grace of God I was given ability to see and know. So if you don't grieve and mourn- and it's not easy- you end up acting out or withdrawing, on some level. I'm sure if it. Now I still had relationships with people, and some love. I'm not suggesting this one thing destroys all hope of connection, far be it, but I say that the influence is negative.
For example, when sexuality is diminished, for both partners, that results in increased frustration and alienation, conscious or otherwise. That can result in loss of passion. If it is conscious it can even result in blame and self-blame, judgment and self-judgment, women not feeling sexy, men not feeling potent, etc. What a tragedy. And I haven't even talked about the links to PTSD and learned helplessness.
Gee thanks doc, I'm glad you were able to make some extra money on non-essential body tissue. Go have a steak with your family. Know that many who are first will be last, and vice versa.
Now, this understanding of how circumcision really happened in the Torah and in the OT up to new covenant times and later- it has helped shed light on the bible for me, on the new testament writings on circumcision found in Acts, Romans, Galatians and Titus. There was much controversy. I think it stemmed from the fact that those who had to be circumcized in the old covenant were envious of those who didn't in the new covenant. We always see it in the bible as a highly emotional issue. No wonder! Both those who, while having been cut, are in denial of the problem, as well as those who are still intact and who just cannot understand- they might not see this for what it is in the bible- an emotional as well as theological issue between the jewish and the gentile believers. And keep in mind, we are not even talking about modern circumcision, we are talking about a much smaller incision.
How ashamed and angry Paul would be with what's happening in modern times, at least among those who claim to do it for religious reasons. I'm sure he'd be incensed. This has helped me shed light on the issues of the new testament.
By the way, Paul says "let those who are circumsized remain so, and those who are not remain so". He is talking here about epispasm, or restoration, which he discouraged. He discouraged it on theological grounds, as far as 'being right with God' was concerned. Paul was talking about Milah, the insignificant one. God promises restoration of all things, a new heaven and a new earth and glorified bodies, and I await all of this along with creation. However I do not believe there is anything wrong with starting the process myself to recover the many functions and features that I can. Many women want their men to do this by the way. We are talking about something different than what Paul was talking about- Periah. This is not a theological issue but a medical and functional one. The people who were circumcized in Paul's day still had their glans covered and protected, as it was meant to be, and they had a large share of what is now called "foreskin" intact. The glans was meant to be an internal organ, like the tongue, not an external organ, like the ear- and this for both protection and pleasure. So I fully believe it is in our divine right to restore, if for no other reason than what was done today is much more drastic- not even the same thing. 15 square inches on average- a postcard size amount of skin is lost in the adult organ. That is drastic, that is serious. And people who undergo restoration report all kinds of gains- including emotional and psychological.
There is a wealth of information about this on the internet and on youtube. It is worth checking out for those interested, both in the theology and in the personal or social aspects.
For those who want to minimize or to invalidate feelings and experiences of those who don't want to have it done to another or wish it wasn't done to them, or who want to restore, or whatever, I can only say that by what measure you use on another- that will be used on you. If you minimize, shame, invalidate, you will be minimized, shamed and invalidated yourself. If you use hyperbole, false evidence, stupid statements, you are not following the bible commandment to show respect. The bible wants us to dignify each other. Still, I expect there to be some vipers who respond to this message in a negative way. Probably those who are in denial of what was done to them and don't want to face the pain.
Hello all,
This is a post about the evil of modern day circumcision. First of all, circumcision at all does not apply to new covenant believers. I think the New Testament is pretty clear about that. What is required is circumcision of the heart.
But even Old Covenant circumcision has little to do with what is done today. Actually what is done today- taking off 1/3 to 1/2 of the skin of the newborn babe, pulling it by force away from the glans, to which it is strongly attached, and leaving the genitals highly mutilated, weakened and incapable of very much the sensitivity for which it was created- that actually dates to 140AD and guess who we can thank for that practice? You guessed it, none other than our old friends, the pharisees..essentially, combined with some more modern influences like Victorian ethics and medicine, and modern medicine
But yes, original "circumcision" "Milah" in Hebrew tradition, was nothing like that of today. Only a very small cut was made in what is the true foreskin, that which extends beyond the glans (head). Not some great pulling away from the head, and total mutilation of that which has many many positive functions and features, which God created and called good. What a tragedy when you learn all that has been lost.
But the story is like this: ready for some conspiracy and fraud and history? The Greeks and Romans liked to have public baths in the nude, and also do their athletics in the nude, and to really be part of society, and also for promotion of business, you had to associate in the nude in these places. Well Jews were circumcised (Milah- just a little cut) but even this the Greeks/Romans found abhorrent. So they developed the process of epispasm, restoration, whereby the skin can be regrown through stretching. New cells form- and this can still be done today even by those who have lost almost all. Well , the Rabbis didn't like that people were doing this, so they added to the law. They developed Periah! Why do the pharisees, the brood of vipers, keep adding to God's law. God said "Do not eat from the tree of life". He didn't say "Don't look at it, or don't touch it". But we humans- we like to keep adding to things that God never commanded. We make the 10 commandments into 10,000 commandments, because we are a wicked and corrupt generation.
Thank you pharisees and rabbis for your traditions, which have poisoned parts of the west. Then comes Victorian ethics and medicine, which says that masturbation is a cause of all bad things, and people start saying that circumcision cures masturbation, so they start circumcising, in the Periah tradition which they learned from the Jews! What baby would choose to have this done? Really it's a sin against human rights, and against God who created us in his image! There will be blood for blood, justice and shame in the coming kingdom. If anybody who is reading this who performs these operations, I suggest you repent and get right with God. Also, if you're american, start upholding the equal protection amendment, which gives men and women equal rights under the law.
Anyways all the 'evidence' that masturbation causes all these bad things falls away, and all the evidence that circumcision is otherwise healthy falls away or is not found. But modern medicine, which in many ways is evil, because it is earthly and self-serving, like most every other organization, decides that it wants to continue the practice. It invents justification and guess what else it does? It sells the babies cut tissues with their undifferentiated fibroblast cells, which are very valuable, to cosmetic and other companies, for profit. I wonder if the parents new that medicine was doing this? And if anything, shouldn't they belong to the infant? For shame! For shame! For shame! This is why I believe judgment is coming and must come on them. I don't know if anything is more evil and earthly minded than that, profiting off such a horror. It affects women as well as men, because women are the sexual partners of men, the 'end users' as one put it. Not only the sexual partners either but the emotional partners, and soul partners, and there is evidence for damage here to the psyche. Basically I think it creates both trauma and loss. The trauma lies in the circumcision. The loss lies in the 'being circumcized- i.e. the loss of many valuable functions". I won't get into them all of the traumas and losses here, but they are many, and I'm sure profoundly affect relationships, including those who avoid relationships, and profoundly affect the men on the street- how social they are and how well they can get along and be productive. Look at who circumcizes- Americans and the Islam world, primarily! Look at how harmonious these countries are in themselves and with each other!
I'm not saying it's a 1:1 deterministic relationship. I do think there can be a benefit, and that it can make a person more compassionate- but only after much processing. Who is doing the processing? Most people don't even know consciously what has been done to them, although they know unconsciously, as I did for a long while, before by the grace of God I was given ability to see and know. So if you don't grieve and mourn- and it's not easy- you end up acting out or withdrawing, on some level. I'm sure if it. Now I still had relationships with people, and some love. I'm not suggesting this one thing destroys all hope of connection, far be it, but I say that the influence is negative.
For example, when sexuality is diminished, for both partners, that results in increased frustration and alienation, conscious or otherwise. That can result in loss of passion. If it is conscious it can even result in blame and self-blame, judgment and self-judgment, women not feeling sexy, men not feeling potent, etc. What a tragedy. And I haven't even talked about the links to PTSD and learned helplessness.
Gee thanks doc, I'm glad you were able to make some extra money on non-essential body tissue. Go have a steak with your family. Know that many who are first will be last, and vice versa.
Now, this understanding of how circumcision really happened in the Torah and in the OT up to new covenant times and later- it has helped shed light on the bible for me, on the new testament writings on circumcision found in Acts, Romans, Galatians and Titus. There was much controversy. I think it stemmed from the fact that those who had to be circumcized in the old covenant were envious of those who didn't in the new covenant. We always see it in the bible as a highly emotional issue. No wonder! Both those who, while having been cut, are in denial of the problem, as well as those who are still intact and who just cannot understand- they might not see this for what it is in the bible- an emotional as well as theological issue between the jewish and the gentile believers. And keep in mind, we are not even talking about modern circumcision, we are talking about a much smaller incision.
How ashamed and angry Paul would be with what's happening in modern times, at least among those who claim to do it for religious reasons. I'm sure he'd be incensed. This has helped me shed light on the issues of the new testament.
By the way, Paul says "let those who are circumsized remain so, and those who are not remain so". He is talking here about epispasm, or restoration, which he discouraged. He discouraged it on theological grounds, as far as 'being right with God' was concerned. Paul was talking about Milah, the insignificant one. God promises restoration of all things, a new heaven and a new earth and glorified bodies, and I await all of this along with creation. However I do not believe there is anything wrong with starting the process myself to recover the many functions and features that I can. Many women want their men to do this by the way. We are talking about something different than what Paul was talking about- Periah. This is not a theological issue but a medical and functional one. The people who were circumcized in Paul's day still had their glans covered and protected, as it was meant to be, and they had a large share of what is now called "foreskin" intact. The glans was meant to be an internal organ, like the tongue, not an external organ, like the ear- and this for both protection and pleasure. So I fully believe it is in our divine right to restore, if for no other reason than what was done today is much more drastic- not even the same thing. 15 square inches on average- a postcard size amount of skin is lost in the adult organ. That is drastic, that is serious. And people who undergo restoration report all kinds of gains- including emotional and psychological.
There is a wealth of information about this on the internet and on youtube. It is worth checking out for those interested, both in the theology and in the personal or social aspects.
For those who want to minimize or to invalidate feelings and experiences of those who don't want to have it done to another or wish it wasn't done to them, or who want to restore, or whatever, I can only say that by what measure you use on another- that will be used on you. If you minimize, shame, invalidate, you will be minimized, shamed and invalidated yourself. If you use hyperbole, false evidence, stupid statements, you are not following the bible commandment to show respect. The bible wants us to dignify each other. Still, I expect there to be some vipers who respond to this message in a negative way. Probably those who are in denial of what was done to them and don't want to face the pain.
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