cj and the other 'law of Christ' believers....

[cj]

The following post was made in the "Slandering Paul" thread.

I gave it a thread of its own as I found its opening statement to be a perfect example of the typical, all-to-common soulish disposition that many believers have, and which is the issue of the unfortunate human history of the Church.

There is only one Name that a Christian should carry, Christ Jesus. Yet, as a result of the natural desire of men to make a name for themselves our Lord's name has been remove to a second and third position, behind man-exalted names such as the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist Church, The Lutheren Church, the Evangelical Church, and so on.

In this particular instance we have what seems to be a Seventh Day Adventist type believer openly displaying a mindset that is in obvious bondage to this unfortunate natural desire of men, and thus as a result of this bondage is limited in capacity to see things through any other perspective.

Guibox is so bound by the false doctrine of worshipping the Jewish weekly Sabbath, that this natural affinity becomes the yardstick by which all others are measure and the system into which all are placed.


Lets look at it below.....

"Forget it Georges.

cj and the other....... 'law of Christ' believers..... don't get the function and importance of the 10 commandments in the NT. They don't understand that the law IS love (love for God and for man) embodied in commands and further amplified and magnified by Christ and the Spirit.

"..... law of Christ believers....?"

Is this some new denomination? Sure sounds like it.

This is called "pigeon-holing", and it really exposes the fallen condition of the mind who spoke it.

How has cj become a "law of Christ believer", in the sense that Guibox is attempting to suggest? Have I ever made any sort of declaration to being a "law of Christ believer"? No.

Then what? Guibox simply is unable to grasp anything outside of the system of the box Guibox lives in.

"The world according to Garp." Only in this case, its according to Guibox.



Yet do I believe that there is such a thing as the law of Christ,.... absolutely. Just as I believe all other things that are spoken of in the scriptures.


So tell me Guibox, are you not a law of Christ believer also? Or do you reject this phrase of God's written word?

Are you not a "law of Christ believers", and if so, would you not fall into the catagory of those who do not "get the function and importance of the 10 commandments in the NT."


Saints, there is a reason why God spoke to us at length about the speaking of men, as He knows it is a way to come to understand a man's heart and thus know this man.

What Guibox spoke in the very opening words of the post I'm dealing with here clearly exposes ignorance. And if we are given ignorance in the very first instance, why should we think that the speaking will change to something that will prove profitable to read.

Truth is, though we can hope this might happen it is rearly the case; as will be seen below in the rest of Guibox's post.

"They argue in semantics and contradict themselves at every turn (or at the very least make their arguments redundant).

A nothing statement.

They try to link the laws that have passed away in Christ with God's laws of love which are the foundation of even His heavenly realm (did not Satan break the 1st commandment?). Laws that show the very nature of His character.

An outright lie.

They can't understand that New Covenant Christians actually obey the law in it's entirety (except for that dreaded 4th commandment, which is why this whole hoopla about the validity of the law has occurred to begin with), with the Spirit and under grace.

Another lie.

It is not the contents of the covenant that changed but the Mediator and the promises. And that we don't keep the law TO be saved, but BECAUSE we are saved. When we have a new heart, keeping the law is an automatic thing because we

a) love God
b) love our neighbor

This is why Christ said that on these two laws hang all the laws. The 10 commandments is the embodiment of love.

I completely agree.

What I don't agree with is the reintroduction into the new relationship we have with God, of old, past forms and traditions.

In their darkened state, what Saturday folly keepers miss, is that love = rest.

God is love. And God is our rest. Thus love is rest.

There are not "ten commandments" there is just one divine attribute,..... love.

Do you think God considers each of the ten commandments as He goes through His daily routine?

Do you think He says to Himself, "Now, have I kept the fifth commandment here, and the eight commandment there?"

Noooooo,..... God just does God according to the attributes of God.

When God does something there is no "Oh look, there is God doing the seventh commandment, and look, there He is doing the third commandment."

When God does something all that is seen is God, which means all His commandments are seen,..... wrapped up in.... ONE...... expression,........ LOVE.

You see LOVE you see all the commandments.


But in the proud mind of the man who wants to esteem himself into God's presence, it becomes impossible to accept the reality that one can simply just be in God's presence in and through LOVE.


A believer just needs to LOVE God, and in doing so keeps all the commandments.


Its that simple.

They can't get out of their redundant tunnel vision to see that this is what Paul and Christ have been saying all along.

This from a person who can see no further than the religious box they live in.


Its the curse of the box-people,...... believing that because they have chosen to live in a box, everyone else must have done so as well.

An unfortunately, until they come out from this box they will never be able to see that some have come into the freedom of which our Lord spoke of.



Who loves freedom? Wave your hands in the air,.... wave like you just don't care.

David did.


In love,
cj

 

[Georges]

Hey.....I'm a Law of Christ believer....the Law of Christ "is" the Torah... 8-)

 

[Imagican]

CJ,

I believe you have offered EXACTLY what EVERYTHING law hangs upon; LOVE. Christ stated it himself, that we MUST love God above all else and love our neighbor as ourselves. ALL the commandments are contained in these two. So, when we boil it down to it's most simplistic terms, we actually end up with but ONE law; LOVE. Sacrifice of self for the benefit of God and others. Giving instead of taking. Once we learn this we will then see through the glass clearly. This is the 'becoming' of the 'perfect man'.

Good post.

 

[wavy]

CJ,

I believe you have offered EXACTLY what EVERYTHING law hangs upon; LOVE.

Good post.

:o

I'm in total awe...

 

[guibox]

In this particular instance we have what seems to be a Seventh Day Adventist type believer openly displaying a mindset that is in obvious bondage to this unfortunate natural desire of men, and thus as a result of this bondage is limited in capacity to see things through any other perspective.

I guess you're entititled to your opinion. However, I don't consider myself a 'letter of the law' person. I do, however, see redundancy, ignorance of context, match the scriptures up with what I believe philosophy when I see it, and will call it for what it is.

Guibox is so bound by the false doctrine of worshipping the Jewish weekly Sabbath, that this natural affinity becomes the yardstick by which all others are measure and the system into which all are placed..

In the words of you..'another lie'. I don't worship the weekly Sabbath. I call the scriptures for how I see it. I feel the entire scope of the Bible and history supports the validity of the Sabbath. You insist of taking two or three verses of Paul and make it fit the theology you want. I take the examples of both Paul and Christ as is.

Lets look at it below.....

"Forget it Georges.

cj and the other....... 'law of Christ' believers..... don't get the function and importance of the 10 commandments in the NT. They don't understand that the law IS love (love for God and for man) embodied in commands and further amplified and magnified by Christ and the Spirit.

"..... law of Christ believers....?"

Is this some new denomination? Sure sounds like it.

This is called "pigeon-holing", and it really exposes the fallen condition of the mind who spoke it.

How has cj become a "law of Christ believer", in the sense that Guibox is attempting to suggest? Have I ever made any sort of declaration to being a "law of Christ believer"? No...

Oh come on, cj. I was merely pointing out the ludicrous philosophy you and others have that the 'law of Christ' is simply 'love' and that it seems to wipe away the 10 commandments.

Forgive me if I came across as condescending or 'pigeon holing'

So tell me Guibox, are you not a law of Christ believer also? Or do you reject this phrase of God's written word?

Are you not a "law of Christ believers", and if so, would you not fall into the catagory of those who do not "get the function and importance of the 10 commandments in the NT."

Absolutely I am a law of Christ believer. I don't believe that such a thing negates the importance of the 10 commandments of which 'hangs on the two laws of love'. Where we part is in where you feel this REPLACES the 10 commandments where I see them as the exact same thing.

What Guibox spoke in the very opening words of the post I'm dealing with here clearly exposes ignorance. And if we are given ignorance in the very first instance, why should we think that the speaking will change to something that will prove profitable to read.."

cj, if I and others post where you have exposed YOUR ignorance, it would be many pages long. Don't be so sanctimonious.

They try to link the laws that have passed away in Christ with God's laws of love which are the foundation of even His heavenly realm (did not Satan break the 1st commandment?). Laws that show the very nature of His character.

An outright lie..."

Why? According to your philosophy, ALL the laws have been done away with, including the 10 commandments. This is foolish as the NT makes it plain which laws were truly fulfilled in Christ. You want to lump the moral law in with it and chuck it out the window. Christ, Peter, Paul and especially James tell you it is YOU who is the liar.

They can't understand that New Covenant Christians actually obey the law in it's entirety (except for that dreaded 4th commandment, which is why this whole hoopla about the validity of the law has occurred to begin with), with the Spirit and under grace.

Another lie..

No, it is your opinion. As it is mine. Or did you become the 'spirituality police' in censuring and labelling people's opinion?

Do you think God considers each of the ten commandments as He goes through His daily routine?

Do you think He says to Himself, "Now, have I kept the fifth commandment here, and the eight commandment there?"

Noooooo,..... God just does God according to the attributes of God.

When God does something there is no "Oh look, there is God doing the seventh commandment, and look, there He is doing the third commandment."..

So now cj knows what God is thinking. Boy, I wish we had HIM as a prophet instead of EGW.

When God does something all that is seen is God, which means all His commandments are seen,..... wrapped up in.... ONE...... expression,........ LOVE.

You see LOVE you see all the commandments.

Yes. And in that spirit and love, I will obey Him. What do you think the 10 commandments portray? Bondage, hate and spite? No...love. Again, you will not kill, steal or commit adultery whether you follow it as a Jew or a NC Christian. The problem lies in your neglect that the Sabbath falls under this NC obedience just as much as the other 9. This is where you show your inconsistency and ignorance.

But in the proud mind of the man who wants to esteem himself into God's presence, it becomes impossible to accept the reality that one can simply just be in God's presence in and through LOVE.
A believer just needs to LOVE God, and in doing so keeps all the commandments.


Its that simple.

Exactly true. And this also includes the Sabbath. This is the only stone in your shoe for us to be exactly on the same page, cj. The spirit and 'love' doesn't exist in a vacuum. Don't sound like some sort of Beatles hippie 'all we need is love'. Love is manifested by action, behavior, thought and motive. 'He who says he loves Me and does not keep my commands is a liar and the truth is not in Him', 'Faith without works is dead'.

A true, saving grace faith will manifest itself by these things...not out of obligation or to be saved or justified, but because of a renewed heart and the spirit inside us. This is the difference between the OC and the NC.


As I said before.

1) You argue semantics more than anything
2) Your arguments are redundant because we are basically saying the same thing
3) The only hangup you have is the Sabbath, not any of the other 9 commandments

I believe the same way you do. Love and a changed heart will AUTOMATICALLY work obedience. Obedience to what?? To God's law of love! His character is shown through it, our lives are governed by it and no NC Christian would think to live like a heathen in breaking them. If you killed people, stole from them, slandered them and slept with their wives, would you really have a changed heart??

So how can you say that those who believe the law is valid are any less Christians or in bondage then you??

Do you not see the simple logic here, cj?

Ahh..but that 4th commandment.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Well, there's very little to add to the above post of guibox' except to say that cj, who started this thread, has been left with lots of egg on his face.

 

[cj]

Well, there's very little to add to the above post of guibox' except to say that cj, who started this thread, has been left with lots of egg on his face.

Actually, as I will contend in a following post, Guibox's above speaking only serves more to prove my points.

The error you make SputnikBoy is to view it through your colored glasses. And I understand its a perfectly natural thing for men to do.

As for having lots of egg on my face,.... I checked in the mirror and could not find any truth to your statement.

So I guess that makes you somewhat of a false-witness bearer.

Joking aside though SputNik, your passing shot is simply more nothing and really serves to denigrate you rather than me.

And why, because you have sided with speaking that will soon be exposed for the silliness that it is.


A quick example of Guibox's silliness..... "I wish we had HIM...."

Hmmm,.... see, last I heard God declared that we are all just one body in Christ, and thus according to God, we all have oneanother.

But when the mindset of "we/them" comes in, then the proper ground in Christ is lost and some other false ground takes its place.


In all of Guibox's words can be found the corruption that stems from the holding to of false doctrines.

And you have openly supported this stand.


Ah well,...


In love,
cj

 

[wavy]

Actually, as I will contend in a following post, Guibox's above speaking only serves more to prove my points.

The error you make SputnikBoy is to view it through your colored glasses. And I understand its a perfectly natural thing for men to do.

As for having lots of egg on my face,.... I checked in the mirror and could not find any truth to your statement.

So I guess that makes you somewhat of a false-witness bearer.

Joking aside though SputNik, your passing shot is simply more nothing and really serves to denigrate you rather than me. And why, because you have sided with speaking that will soon be exposed for the silliness that it is.

A quick example of Guibox's silliness..... "I wish we had HIM...."

But when the mindset of "we/them" comes in, then the proper ground in Christ is lost and some other false ground takes its place.

In all of Guibox's words can be found the corruption that stems from the holding to of false doctrines.

***wavy says nothing; evidence speaks for itself***

 

[guibox]

Yes, cj's habit of making himself bigger than the rest of us without proper biblical reasoning is a normality on this forum.

He would like to think he is better than us by using our words against us instead of actually looking at the content of our posts and commenting on them. Somehow, I guess it makes him feel better about himself.

cj, there is no reasoning with you. I felt that I presented a well explained argument, even trying to find some middle ground with you and instead of taking your blinders off and actually reading to understand it, you decide to berate and ridicule.

I believe that our discussion about the Sabbath is finished as you have no sense of logic or reason concerning this topic.

It is sad but true...good bye.

 

[Georges]

Anyone noticing a particular pattern regarding CJ's threads....kind of a everyone else is wrong tinge to it.

 

[Vic C.]

Anyone noticing a particular pattern regarding CJ's threads....kind of a everyone else is wrong tinge to it.

I personally find this thread disruptive and serves no purpose but to create disharmony.

This thread is now