Common unscriptural church practices?

[radorth]

F-C recently stated he bet he could find an unscriptural witch in Alabaster's church. What I would bet is that there isn't a single church today that doesn't have a few unscriptural practices of its own.

After each practice I indicate whether it is scriptural, unscriptural or no NT evidence

Sitting in neat rows in large churches? (The evidence in Corinthians is that the church was less organized and perhaps 50-150 people in local gatherings all over the city)

One person speaking for an hour every Sunday? (Manifestly unscriptural according to Corinthians)

Expounding on doctrines such as pre-trib,post trib, etc? Once saved, always saved, and other popular doctrines? Political issues? (No evidence at all any early Christian discussed these doctrines or politics)

Is prophesying "one by one" prevented by the agenda? (If so, this is manifestly unscriptural)

Do the weaker members receive the most honor?

Pastor knocks whole churches and groups of Christians and suggests they are not following Christ in good conscience? (Unscriptural- uprooting wheat. Jesus told his disciples not to rebuke anyone preaching in his name, and Paul says it hardly matters what their motives are as long as Christ is preached)

I have more for those claiming their church is holier than my church. If you can't find one your church is doing/not doing, let me know.

 

[radorth]

Well I take it nobody liked my thread much, but OTOH nobody openly denied anything.

 

[Alabaster]

There is no witch in my church unless one comes in to disrupt (wherein she will find his/her heart sorely convicted), or one comes in as an invited guest and finds Jesus!

 

[radorth]

F of C or Dave,

anything on the list apply to your church and are your practices all scripturally defensible?

 

[stranger]

F-C recently stated he bet he could find an unscriptural witch in Alabaster's church. What I would bet is that there isn't a single church today that doesn't have a few unscriptural practices of its own.

After each practice I indicate whether it is scriptural, unscriptural or no NT evidence

Sitting in neat rows in large churches? (The evidence in Corinthians is that the church was less organized and perhaps 50-150 people in local gatherings all over the city)

One person speaking for an hour every Sunday? (Manifestly unscriptural according to Corinthians)

Expounding on doctrines such as pre-trib,post trib, etc? Once saved, always saved, and other popular doctrines? Political issues? (No evidence at all any early Christian discussed these doctrines or politics)

Is prophesying "one by one" prevented by the agenda? (If so, this is manifestly unscriptural)

Do the weaker members receive the most honor?

Pastor knocks whole churches and groups of Christians and suggests they are not following Christ in good conscience? (Unscriptural- uprooting wheat. Jesus told his disciples not to rebuke anyone preaching in his name, and Paul says it hardly matters what their motives are as long as Christ is preached)

I have more for those claiming their church is holier than my church. If you can't find one your church is doing/not doing, let me know.

Hi radorth,

Is unscriptural meant to apply only to the New testament? I ask this since the OT, which is about 3/4 of the scriptures, was not about Church but the people of Israel.

blessings

 

[Cornelius]

1) One man show . Pastor is king
2) Bible schools (yea, tell that to the Apostles LOL )
3) Tithing (God loves a cheerful giver )
4) Huge buildings (houses were the New Testament gathering places)
5) "Assistant pastors" (never read of them in the Bible)
6) Female pastors (not in the Bible)
7) Pulpits ( have not researched them, but I can almost be sure, they have some pagan origin if we do search a bit)
8) Denomination (not in the Bible )
9 ) Self ordained ministers (God ordained in the New Testament)
10 ) Where is the five fold ministry that is suppose to bring the saints to perfection ? (Ephesians )
11) "Catchers" (let them fall without the catchers and see if they still fall )
12) "in house" shops . Merchandising ...fleecing the flock.

There are plenty more, but I will leave some for others to post.
C

 

[handy]

Well on the positive side, here are some practices common to the Body (at least in every local church that I've been a part of) that are Scriptural:

Prayer and the uplifting of others in prayer.
Pouring over God's word in faithful study.
Singing of psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.
Sharing in the sacraments of baptism and communion.
Giving gifts and offerings and seeing to it that the needs of those who have little or none are met.
Feeding the hungry.
Providing clothing to those who have no clothes.
Visiting prisoners.
Proclaiming the gospel of Christ (best when this isn't done in church, but rather in the community).

I can't think of a church that I've ever been associated with where these things weren't done on a regular basis.

 

[Free]

What is meant by "unscriptural"?

 

[mutzrein]

I'd like to see the scripture that supports the notion that man should ask Jesus into his heart in order to be saved :gah

 

[handy]

I'd like to see the scripture that supports the notion that man should ask Jesus into his heart in order to be saved :gah

Now that's a good practice to question. I too dislike the whole "you can't be saved unless you've asked Jesus into your heart" heresy.

The quibbles about church buildings and furniture and how much staff a church might hire are just that, quibbles. With all the heresies creeping into the church today, I'm surprised that anyone would worry about meeting in a building sanctified for the worship of God and the fellowship of His people.

We should be far more worried about the friendship of the world that the church is cozying up to and the watered down gospel that we are presenting.

 

[duval]

A thing unscriptural is anything not mentioned in the scripture but may be ok if its necessarily inferred. A thing antiscriptural is any thing or teaching contrary to the scriptural. Paul said "rightly divide the word of truth."

God bless,
duval

 

[follower of Christ]

F-C recently stated he bet he could find an unscriptural witch in Alabaster's church. What I would bet is that there isn't a single church today that doesn't have a few unscriptural practices of its own.

I can think of one church in a small town in PA right off that doesnt have any 'unscriptural practices'.
You might want to define your terms a bit more.

 

[follower of Christ]

What is meant by "unscriptural"?

Exactly.
There are some things in the NT that dont necessarily apply to every single circumstance. A person could pull out instruction about speaking in tongues where no one in the church DOES speak in tongues in the assembly and call that 'unscriptural' if they simply dont.

The OP hasnt defined 'unscriptural practices' well enough to even have this discussion in any meaningful manner.

 

[Imagican]

I'd like to see the scripture that supports the notion that man should ask Jesus into his heart in order to be saved :gah

While these exact words are NOT offered in scripture, we do have scripture that states that Christ LIVES in the hearts of those that love Him and follow His commandments. We are told to BELIEVE that Christ DIED for our forgiveness. And, we are told that we CAN ask things IN HIS NAME and that they will be granted.

So, when we combine these, it's not a MAJOR step to assume that we 'start somewhere'.

While some would contend that 'some are chosen' and 'some aren't' and that the book of life was written from the beginning. If one's name is NOT in it, then they have NO CHOICE in the matter.

I, for one, do NOT believe this and CAN'T. For IF that were the case in reality, there would be NO NEED for testimony, witnessing, or even The Word for that matter. Or ministry or ANYTHING so far as a Body is concerned with.

So, while the words may well NOT be 'dictated' as in YOU MUST. I KNOW that God hears our prayers and that which we ask in the name of Christ CAN be granted. And I also KNOW that Christ IS able to live in the hearts of those that LOVE Him and follow His commandments.

Now, how DOES Christ come to 'live in one's heart'? I believe that there are NUMEROUS ways that this 'happens'. And one of them may WELL BE the simple 'dropping to one's knees, asking for forgiveness, accepting Christ INTO one's heart, and doing so with a sincere heart.

For some it takes tramatic events, for others simply a recognition that they are IN NEED of a 'power greater than themselves'. And still others SEEM to have been gifted from birth with an inherent understanding that goes BEYOND this world and what IT teaches.

God does WORK in 'mysterious ways' TO US.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[lou11]

While some would contend that 'some are chosen' and 'some aren't' and that the book of life was written from the beginning. If one's name is NOT in it, then they have NO CHOICE in the matter.

I, for one, do NOT believe this and CAN'T. For IF that were the case in reality, there would be NO NEED for testimony, witnessing, or even The Word for that matter. Or ministry or ANYTHING so far as a Body is concerned with.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Rom 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

These passages, and many others, clearly show that God predestinates/calls/elects all whom He would have be saved. Our response to His sending the Holy Spirit into our hearts (causing us to be born again) is fall on our knees in worshipful gratitude for what He has done for us. Only after He has done so do we actually believe in Him at all, much less invite Christ into our hearts. He chooses us; we do not choose Him other than in a secondary, after the fact sense. Churches/pastors that teach otherwise have succumbed to the heresy of Jacob Arminius, and there are many in this camp.

To not believe this is to disagree with the Bible which amounts to a denial of Christianity. Rather, we should recognize that there are many things in God's word that we as finite, limited creatures cannot understand. We are not gods and cannot comprehend God or His word exhaustively. We can only come to Him as Christ said, as little children. Little children do not insist on total comprehension of their father's word and neither should we expect to understand all God tells us. If we have faith, we believe what God tells us and do as He commands us, even when we can't see why we should and it doesn't make sense to us. Testimony, witness and ministry are means God uses for purposes we don't understand and in ways that may be far beyond our comprehension today.

 

[radorth]

1) One man show . Pastor is king
2) Bible schools (yea, tell that to the Apostles LOL )
3) Tithing (God loves a cheerful giver )
4) Huge buildings (houses were the New Testament gathering places)
5) "Assistant pastors" (never read of them in the Bible)
6) Female pastors (not in the Bible)
7) Pulpits ( have not researched them, but I can almost be sure, they have some pagan origin if we do search a bit)
8) Denomination (not in the Bible )
9 ) Self ordained ministers (God ordained in the New Testament)
10 ) Where is the five fold ministry that is suppose to bring the saints to perfection ? (Ephesians )
11) "Catchers" (let them fall without the catchers and see if they still fall )
12) "in house" shops . Merchandising ...fleecing the flock.

There are plenty more, but I will leave some for others to post.
C

Well at least one person responded with something relevant. Not sure about the female pastor issue. I think it's clear there will female prophetesses who spoke in some gatherings, Paul's "shame" statement not withstanding. I have seen enough annointed females speak to question what Paul meant. I don't think we know. Otherwise yes, all of the above are questionable practices with almost no scriptural basis.

Notice how some are simply avoiding the issue, a couple of whom were saying they could find an unscriptural practice in somebody else's church? I suspect that's because they realize they haven't a shred of scripture to back up their own meeting agendas. Forget tongues for a minute and compare your own meetings with the clear picture in Corinthians. Answer the questions I raised in the OP if you can. Who can prophesy one by one. Who can freely speak a "revelation," a prophecy in English, or even a testimony of a changed life that imparts faith to the hearers better than any sermon?

Nobody in your church, because you still have the old me clergy-you -laity mentality left over from the dark ages. The clergy is in jeans now, and that's cool. Of course they are still preaching mainly the "do not touch, do not taste, do not handle" medeval Christianity Paul said was useless. During the few spiritual awakenings we have had, the leaders mostly sat down. Fox, Seymour and Nee were more unlikely than likely to be the speaker. They had a simple, humble faith that what God could do with them, he could do with anybody. And so God did. Pastors have their authority and their place. They just have no idea what it is.

Which is why the saints never get "trained," except to give more.

Rad

 

[radorth]

Well on the positive side, here are some practices common to the Body (at least in every local church that I've been a part of) that are Scriptural:

Prayer and the uplifting of others in prayer.
Pouring over God's word in faithful study.
Singing of psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.
Sharing in the sacraments of baptism and communion.
Giving gifts and offerings and seeing to it that the needs of those who have little or none are met.
Feeding the hungry.
Providing clothing to those who have no clothes.
Visiting prisoners.
Proclaiming the gospel of Christ (best when this isn't done in church, but rather in the community).

I can't think of a church that I've ever been associated with where these things weren't done on a regular basis.

Well OK, those are good things, but why don't you read the history of revival carefully, and see what God did with the most obscure leaders, how whole communities came to Christ, how when the leaders actually believed God could work through others? You will find all the things you listed and far more in that history. Is your church God-centered or man and his good works-centered? Do you believe God can run his own, perfectly orderly church meeting and pick the speaker "as he wills"? I can tell you five minutes after I walk in whether the leaders have a clue what the Holy Spirit can do.

What you will find is that the church system and its leaders have been little but a hindrance to spiritual growth.
Rad