Comparison to the Messianic Jewish person and the Catholic born-again

[SupporterOfCristo]

Hello everyone:

I have this analogy that in how a messianic Jewish person shouldn't give up their traditions, behaviors, laws, rituals after being saved.

In a similar way a catholic that has been raised catholic and inherits catholicism shouldn't have to give up their catholic values, church, and way of worship after accepting Jesus.

Thank You Have Blessed Day.

 

[journeyman]

Many of the 1st Jewish followers of the Messiah continued observing the law. Even the Apostles did,
Churches today simply ignore what "the law cannot save us" really means. After coming to know Jesus, the Apostles never looked at the law from the perspective of how good they were, but how in need of forgiveness they were. In that respect the law most certainly does save sinners.

an obstinate people.....people that provoke me to anger.....which remain among the graves.....who say, ‘Keep away; don’t come near me, for I am holier than you!’ Isa.65:2-5

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: Lk.18:9

 

[donadams]

The problem is that the Jewish practices pointed to Christ or the coming of Christ!

So yo continue to practice them would not only be offensive to pius ears but to Christ who has come!

To continue these practices would be to say Christ has not come!

1. 
   1 John 4:2
   Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis of God:
2. 1 John 4:3
   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in theworld.
3. 2 John 1:7
   For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

So with the death of Christ and the proclamation of the gospel the old practices are abrogated!

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Btw there are new covenant feasts and fasts, and sacraments!

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a bettercovenant, which was established upon better promises.

A promise from God is a sacred oath, and an oath is a sacrament!

Thanks

 

[journeyman]

The problem is that the Jewish practices pointed to Christ or the coming of Christ!

So yo continue to practice them would not only be offensive to pius ears but to Christ who has come!

To continue these practices would be to say Christ has not come!

Christians are not to judge one another, whether they observe holy days or not, or whether they believe they must refrain from eating certain foods or not

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Rom.14:3

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Rom.14:13

 

[donadams]

Christians are not to judge one another, whether they observe holy days or not, or whether they believe they must refrain from eating certain foods or not

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Rom.14:3

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Rom.14:13

The church has the power to publicly bind and loose! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18
And to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Thanks

 

[journeyman]

The church has the power to publicly bind and loose! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18
And to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Thanks

Our Lord said that to Peter because he Peter said,

Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mt.16:16

Our Savior, the Cornerstone said,

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. Lk.17:3

So if we're forgiven here, we will be later on.....or not if we ignore the gospel,

he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still: Rev.22:11 YLT

 

[donadams]

Our Lord said that to Peter because he Peter said,

Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mt.16:16

Our Savior, the Cornerstone said,

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. Lk.17:3

So if we're forgiven here, we will be later on.....or not if we ignore the gospel,

he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still: Rev.22:11 YLT

So there is no authority in the church founded by Christ only spiritual anarchy leading to total confusion?

 

[journeyman]

So there is no authority in the church founded by Christ only spiritual anarchy leading to total confusion?

Of course he gave authority to his disciples, but according to his will. Only God may forgive or retain a persons sins, but his disciples in communion with his Spirit could,

whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mk.6:11

Also, being excomunicated from Christs church is serious,

if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Mt.18:17

Paul said of an adulterer,

Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 1Cor.5:2

 

[donadams]

Of course he gave authority to his disciples, but according to his will. Only God may forgive or retain a persons sins, but his disciples in communion with his Spirit could,

whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mk.6:11

Also, being excomunicated from Christs church is serious,

if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Mt.18:17

Paul said of an adulterer,

Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 1Cor.5:2

Only an apostle had any authority in the new covenant church

The same authority as Christ Jn 20:1-23

 

[journeyman]

Only an apostle had any authority in the new covenant church

The same authority as Christ Jn 20:1-23

The Apostles instructed congrgations to obey the faithful elders among them.

 

[donadams]

The Apostles instructed congrgations to obey the faithful elders among them.

Cos they were in submission to the apostles who were in submission to Peter who was in submission to christ
Hierarchical jurisdictional authority!
Amen?

 

[journeyman]

Cos they were in submission to the apostles who were in submission to Peter who was in submission to christ
Hierarchical jurisdictional authority!
Amen?

Yes 100%,

Be ye followers ofme, even as I also am of Christ. 1Cor.11:1

Keeping the ritual sacrifices in rememberance of Christ isn't wrong. Paul kept the law in Acts 21, because a rumor was going around that Paul was teaching people they didn't have to obey the law to be saved.

I don't need to practice ritual, but I most certainly do need to be reminded why I need Gods' mercy and pointing his law at myself does that real quick.

 

[donadams]

Hello everyone:

I have this analogy that in how a messianic Jewish person shouldn't give up their traditions, behaviors, laws, rituals after being saved.

In a similar way a catholic that has been raised catholic and inherits catholicism shouldn't have to give up their catholic values, church, and way of worship after accepting Jesus.

Thank You Have Blessed Day.

Who is saved?

 

[SupporterOfCristo]

donadams The People that are saved are the Jewish people that have accepted the Lord, and the Catholics that have accepted the Lord.

 

[donadams]

donadams The People that are saved are the Jewish people that have accepted the Lord, and the Catholics that have accepted the Lord.

Saved? Already in heaven? Really
Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 shall be saved
Thanks
Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[SupporterOfCristo]

I believe we are claimed as Saved yet not already living in Heaven.

Like when you become a Christian you are a new creation yet you are still in your sinful flesh.

You Will Be a new creation inevitably and it will happen, but its a process and God won't cause it to be until the time is right and when it is destined to happen.

And with Romans 8:30 "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified" I believe everyone predestined is everyone that will be glorified.

For the Word says: "those he also" and NOT "some of those he also" or "most of those he also" or "those remaining faithful he also" ...

I may disagree with you man and I have nothing against you for your viewpoints.

I'm a Calvinist and believe more in Destiny than Free will. I believe that the world is Not what we make it but what God makes it. (PS118V24)

Have a blessed day Josef and Who Me in spite of our differences of opinion I believe we all are currently of the Kingdom because we have Jesus the Christ. Peace - Ignacio

 

[SupporterOfCristo]

Woops wrong thread I meant to day donadams Peace

 

[SupporterOfCristo]

*say

 

[donadams]

I believe we are claimed as Saved yet not already living in Heaven.

Like when you become a Christian you are a new creation yet you are still in your sinful flesh.

You Will Be a new creation inevitably and it will happen, but its a process and God won't cause it to be until the time is right and when it is destined to happen.

And with Romans 8:30 "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified" I believe everyone predestined is everyone that will be glorified.

For the Word says: "those he also" and NOT "some of those he also" or "most of those he also" or "those remaining faithful he also" ...

I may disagree with you man and I have nothing against you for your viewpoints.

I'm a Calvinist and believe more in Destiny than Free will. I believe that the world is Not what we make it but what God makes it. (PS118V24)

Have a blessed day Josef and Who Me in spite of our differences of opinion I believe we all are currently of the Kingdom because we have Jesus the Christ. Peace - Ignacio

Are we called to suffering?
Is suffering required to be glorified?

 

[donadams]

Woops wrong thread I meant to day donadams Peace

It’s all good