Comparison to the Messianic Jewish person and the Catholic born-again

[SupporterOfCristo]

Yes I do believe many are destined to have to experience suffering. There are some that do not have to suffer much. I personally see God's Master Plan as a big pot of stew. Both good things and bad things are thrown in the pot. God does not want suffering to happen but it has to happen because of rebellion and sin. So its like sin and rebellion have to be thrown in the stew too. I believe that there is evil in this world because it simply exists. The opportunity to be against God has been made an option and has always existed. But I believe in Heaven that opportunity, availability, and option to sin will exist no more. Peace - Ignacio

 

[donadams]

Yes I do believe many are destined to have to experience suffering. There are some that do not have to suffer much. I personally see God's Master Plan as a big pot of stew. Both good things and bad things are thrown in the pot. God does not want suffering to happen but it has to happen because of rebellion and sin. So its like sin and rebellion have to be thrown in the stew too. I believe that there is evil in this world because it simply exists. The opportunity to be against God has been made an option and has always existed. But I believe in Heaven that opportunity, availability, and option to sin will exist no more. Peace - Ignacio

I was referring to a necessity of suffering Matt 16:24 Phil 1:29
And no suffering no glory
Rom 8:17 and 2 Tim 2:12
Thanks

 

[SupporterOfCristo]

I Believe there is suffering necessary because in order to be born again you have to die to yourself. So yes for the most part I think it is necessary but I believe there are exceptions to the rule.

Possibly the Elect Angels didn't suffer and Will Most Likely Share in God's Glory because they are Of God and chose not to rebel.

What if a young child chosen by God for eternal paradise dies a pain free death at a young age with no suffering in life.

What if a Chosen one of God gets aborted in the mother's womb and has never felt anything in life yet.

I don't believe the devil has the power to steal souls.

I think we are called to suffer because Lucifer, Adam and Eve Infected mankind with a sin nature.

Because we are all sinners, we need to be covered and need a Savior.

The way things turned out is that SIN had to come into the picture of the Master Plan.

If it was fate for Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit or if the whole beginning and crucial choice could have been different I don't know.

But because of sin we need a Savior. Suffering is part of life and because of sin Christ had to suffer to cover all sins of the chosen ones.

What Christ did is what had to be done for God to Redeem His Undying children and have them share in His Glory. (Isa53V5)

Praise God that suffering doesn't own my life. Praise God that He is Peace, Joy, Love, and Comfort.

Thank God that I didn't come into an existence where things could have been different and without hope.

The Good News for every believer is that because of Jesus we have the forgiveness of sins and eternal life in Him.

And Maybe a Lil Praise Too that in Heaven: Death, Sorrow, Crying, and Pain will exist no more.
(Rev21V4)

Have a Blessed weekend everybody. Peace - Ignacio

 

[Mr. G Lee]

The problem is that the Jewish practices pointed to Christ or the coming of Christ!

So yo continue to practice them would not only be offensive to pius ears but to Christ who has come!

To continue these practices would be to say Christ has not come!

1. 
   1 John 4:2
   Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis of God:
2. 1 John 4:3
   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in theworld.
3. 2 John 1:7
   For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

So with the death of Christ and the proclamation of the gospel the old practices are abrogated!

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Btw there are new covenant feasts and fasts, and sacraments!

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a bettercovenant, which was established upon better promises.

A promise from God is a sacred oath, and an oath is a sacrament!

Thanks

Number 1 is simply confirming salvation .We do acknowledge the Son of man Jesus did come in the flesh and left disappeared having finished the demonstration .

Some did understanding it was Christ anointing Holy Spirit working in him. The one time demonstration is over we can no longer knowing anyone after they die and disappear there bodies return to dust

Like the grass here today gone tomorrow

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[donadams]

Number 1 is simply confirming salvation .We do acknowledge the Son of man Jesus did come in the flesh and left disappeared having finished the demonstration .

Some did understanding it was Christ anointing Holy Spirit working in him. The one time demonstration is over we can no longer knowing anyone after they die and disappear there bodies return to dust

Like the grass here today gone tomorrow

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Jn 11:25

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Jn 11:25

Thanks. .

I am eternal God He has the words of eternal life Jesu the Son does the preaching all that learn from the Holy father come to him the prophet

Jesus the Son of man the prophet given words from the father (I AM) he prophesied.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Do you have eternal life?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Jn 11:25

Hi thanks I would offer.

John like all scripture God breathed shows the mightily power of God who works in his apostles . The words I am the resurrections are of the father The one and only I Am .

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Believing in the Son of man the temporal seen as if believing the eternal Father. All who are taught of the unseen Holy Father come to the prophets the voice of God the source of prophecy

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Both hear and learn.

On one occasion a group of men with Judas came to arrest Jesus. Jesus warned by the Father of all things to come The father exercised I Am power . . again giving words to his prophet Jesus . On the first occasion the powerful words caused them to fall backward indicating slain in the spirit

.Then to represent the gospel good new he applied the I Am to the remainder .

His living word has the power of new life or death .those who love it ieat of its (I AM) fruit

JOhn 18:4-8 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

 

[donadams]

Thanks. .

I am eternal God He has the words of eternal life Jesu the Son does the preaching all that learn from the Holy father come to him the prophet

Jesus the Son of man the prophet given words from the father (I AM) he prophesied.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Do you have eternal life?

Yes but not saved! Mk 13:13 Matt 16:16 Matt 24:13

 

[donadams]

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, and union with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!


Redemption:
The First redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[donadams]

Hi thanks I would offer.

John like all scripture God breathed shows the mightily power of God who works in his apostles . The words I am the resurrections are of the father The one and only I Am .

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Believing in the Son of man the temporal seen as if believing the eternal Father. All who are taught of the unseen Holy Father come to the prophets the voice of God the source of prophecy

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Both hear and learn.

On one occasion a group of men with Judas came to arrest Jesus. Jesus warned by the Father of all things to come The father exercised I Am power . . again giving words to his prophet Jesus . On the first occasion the powerful words caused them to fall backward indicating slain in the spirit

.Then to represent the gospel good new he applied the I Am to the remainder .

His living word has the power of new life or death .those who love it ieat of its (I AM) fruit

JOhn 18:4-8 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

Apostles also God breathed!

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Apostles also God breathed!

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

I would think we go the foundation of the teaching . David said in the Psalm . . . what could the born again believer do if the foundation of a doctrine is made to no effect?

Born again Abel the second born used to represent born again of God begins the genealogy of Jesus the son of man . . . . . . . the end of the matter.

His spirit signified by blood cries out longing to be clothed with the incorruptible just as any saint A. . . Abel to Z . . .Zacharias (Matthew 23:35)

Cain like Esau’ saw no value in the unseen eternal thing of god. Cain sold his for a little peace from hearing the gospel Esau sold his birth rite it for a cup of hairy goat soup, just as Onan who spilled the spiritual seed Christ and was killed.

Abel the first mentioned martyr or witness murdered by the father . of lies (I know not where my brother is).a murderer from that very beginning buried him under "out of sight out of mind" the pagan foundation

John 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello everyone:

I have this analogy that in how a messianic Jewish person shouldn't give up their traditions, behaviors, laws, rituals after being saved.

In a similar way a catholic that has been raised catholic and inherits catholicism shouldn't have to give up their catholic values, church, and way of worship after accepting Jesus.

Thank You Have Blessed Day.

Why would a Catholic have to give up their Catholicism?

 

[SupporterOfCristo]

Because they are lead to the Lord by a Protestant person or congregation and believe Protestantism is more christian than catholicism. They are lead to believe that the Catholic way of church and worship is less christian, non-christian, or unimportant.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I would offer because false prophets as false apostles in beginning the old testament (Jeremiah 44) passed on to the new.

They teach that only a female deity as a queen mother of heaven received the fullness of Grace the full price of redemption while the rest of the world a unknown remnant of grace and they must confine to suffer in Limbo even after they take thier last breath of oxygen. . . for a unknown amount of time. Even teaching the strange woman visits sufferings believers in Limbo comforting them and the Protestants'

Take away the queen mother take away the female deity called the strange woman. Modeled after Queen Jezebel. A legion of disembodied workers with familiar spirits gods .Today called patron saint .

Rachel served them she hid the family idol image from her father needed to put a face of the legion when it comes up.

Rachel was deceived in the same way as Saul in whom God had cut of all forms of prophecy . The witch said to Saul what form is he.? . . many gods came up.

1 Samuel 28:11-14King James Version Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

God sent Saul a strong delusion to believe the lie . . Saul bowed down to the dirt

 

[donadams]

Because they are lead to the Lord by a Protestant person or congregation and believe Protestantism is more christian than catholicism. They are lead to believe that the Catholic way of church and worship is less christian, non-christian, or unimportant.

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

When was the “time of reformation” According to scripture?

The time of Christ?
Or the time of Martin Luther?

Heb 9:10 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

A city set on a hill: Matt 5:14
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13) one faith (eph 4:5) the faith delivered to the apostles (Jude 1:3)


Thanks

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

When was the “time of reformation” According to scripture?

The tradition of men as a law of the fathers? commandment of men.

Or the commandments of our Holy Father not seen God sola scriptura

The body of Christ as the bride began with Abel the apostles "sent ones" not highly venerable ones sent with the gospel . Cain moved by the father lies committed the first murder of Abel the martyr Abel blood like the blood of all saints cries out in a living hope of receiving the promise new body. What we are is not what we will are. According to Hebrew 11 all die not receiving the incorruptible to include that of our blessed by the mercy of God our sister in the Lord Mary .

The first century reformation (Hebrew 9) under the authority of all things written in God's law and witnessed by his prophets (sola scriptura)

Hebrews 9: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

The law of the fathers persecuted the true believers torturing men and woman murdering them because they would not trust law of the fathers out of sight out of mind who belive in a Holy father not seen . I heard it through the fathers grapevine.

They went after with vengeance the true apostle Paul . . .saved by the hearing of the faith Christ's labor of love

They tried to prove that sola scriptura was the heresy making it to no efect through I heard it through the fathers grapevine But could not . Paul turned the doctrine right side up inspired from heaven not earthly oral traditions of dying mankind. Rather than worship a legion of fathers that some must call patron saints Paul the true apostle chose the one manner our Holy Father our Vicar in heaven worshiping the the unseen eternal God of the fathers again not the fathers a legion as many gods

Mathew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father (one holy father) which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.(no legion of fathers )

The same authority that worked in the 15th century reformation or any generation when God restores His government of faith not a government of men who walk by sight .

Acts 22:1-5King James Version2 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Acts 24 :6 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of (not as ) my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

It would seem the law of the fathers has no interest in the written law of our one Holy Father

The living word of God. not the I heard it through the fathers grapevine traditons of the dying mankind

 

[donadams]

The tradition of men as a law of the fathers? commandment of men.

Or the commandments of our Holy Father not seen God sola scriptura

The body of Christ as the bride began with Abel the apostles "sent ones" not highly venerable ones sent with the gospel . Cain moved by the father lies committed the first murder of Abel the martyr Abel blood like the blood of all saints cries out in a living hope of receiving the promise new body. What we are is not what we will are. According to Hebrew 11 all die not receiving the incorruptible to include that of our blessed by the mercy of God our sister in the Lord Mary .

The first century reformation (Hebrew 9) under the authority of all things written in God's law and witnessed by his prophets (sola scriptura)

Hebrews 9: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

The law of the fathers persecuted the true believers torturing men and woman murdering them because they would not trust law of the fathers out of sight out of mind who belive in a Holy father not seen . I heard it through the fathers grapevine.

They went after with vengeance the true apostle Paul . . .saved by the hearing of the faith Christ's labor of love

They tried to prove that sola scriptura was the heresy making it to no efect through I heard it through the fathers grapevine But could not . Paul turned the doctrine right side up inspired from heaven not earthly oral traditions of dying mankind. Rather than worship a legion of fathers that some must call patron saints Paul the true apostle chose the one manner our Holy Father our Vicar in heaven worshiping the the unseen eternal God of the fathers again not the fathers a legion as many gods

Mathew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father (one holy father) which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.(no legion of fathers )

The same authority that worked in the 15th century reformation or any generation when God restores His government of faith not a government of men who walk by sight .

Acts 22:1-5King James Version2 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Acts 24 :6 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of (not as ) my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

It would seem the law of the fathers has no interest in the written law of our one Holy Father

The living word of God. not the I heard it through the fathers grapevine traditons of the dying mankind

Was Paul or Saint Paul one of the fathers?

Are we to obey the fathers?
Hear the fathers?

Do the fathers care for our souls?

Can a man be saved without a priest?

Thanks