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Completely true in spite of other verses?

SupporterOfCristo

 
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Hello everyone I know the verse in Romans: Whosoever Calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

Can Someone be so deep in sin yet still be saved?

There is the verse that says there are people that build on the foundation of Christ but will have their work burnt up. But they will still be saved. (1Cor3)

As Barely Escaping the Flames (V15)

My Conviction with Elaborating on this could say that one can be absolutely as sinful as humanly possible but still be saved.

I Believe one can be involved with sinful things like in 1Cor6V9 but will still be saved because they have Christ.

For I personally believe that once this deep sinner's life has ended, they will be in the Presence of the Lord.

I Think that the sinner may think to do the old sins that have been done, but will not have the availability and option to actually do it (sin).

Maybe this person will suffer loss of blessings and valuable things in heaven, but maybe all the ones God has chosen are all claimed and receive the gift that they didn't make themselves, but God freely gave.

Blessings and have a good night - Ignacio
 
Can Someone be so deep in sin yet still be saved?
The point about conversion is that there is a change.
One no longer wants to do that which is sinful, that one is sorrowful when one does sin and as 1John1:9 says, God forgives us when we turn back to him.

So someone deeply Involved in sin, who is not seeking to change, not repentant about their sin, it is questionable whether they are a Christian.
 
Hey All,
That is exactly right Who Me. John put it this way:

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

John doesn't just say its questionable. John says we lie. (A lie is a purposeful act of deception.)
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
 
Josef yeah man I see your point, but I believe someone can be a liar and not live according to the truth yet still be saved.
For I know it is absolutely bad to be sinful and deep in sinfulness, but I believe God claims and redeems every single person He chose before the foundation of the earth.
For I want to always be faithful and obedient and avoid sin at all costs but if I stumble there is Grace.
My viewpoint is that a Christian can NEVER go too far. And whether you believe it is up to you or God or a combination to inherit salvation, every Christian should make it there highest effort and pursuit to be of God, do what is right, avoid rebellion and sin, and try to always be faithful.
Peace man have a good day :-) \m/ - Ignacio
 
On what basis is a person saved? On the basis of the moral quality of their living? No. There is no one who is justified by their good (that is, morally-right) behavior. See: Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, 2 Timothy 1:9.

Jesus is the sole means, The Way, The Door, to God (John 14:6; John 10-8-10; 1 Timothy. 2:5). Jesus is our Savior and our salvation (John 3:16; 1 John 5:11-12; John 1:12). Only Jesus is acceptable to God and only those in Jesus by trust in him as Savior and Lord, clothed in his perfect righteousness (Ephesians 1:7; Romans 10:9-10; Romans 13:14; Galatians 3:27), are acceptable to God.

Since the basis for a man's salvation is not at all located in himself, if the man cannot and does not save himself, if God only accepts him on the basis of the man being clothed in Christ, then how is it that the man must maintain his salvation, that it is up to him to keep it? How is it that he has become, essentially, a co-Savior with Christ? Well, he hasn't. There is only one Savior.

Once, then, God has saved someone, made them a new creature in Christ, what He has done cannot be undone. But, very often, genuine salvation has not occurred and so the false convert doesn't truly change. They can't, after all, manifest the life of Christ which they don't actually possess.
 
Hey All,
I agree with you Ignacio. The parable of the prodigal son shows us this. No matter what circumstance the son put upon himself, the relationship did not change. Because the relationship was there. We will always be our parents' children. Why? Again, that relationship cannot be broken.
I gave you 1John 1:6. Now consider John 2:3-4:

1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

We have to make sure we are not lying to ourselves. John is not hedging this at all. If we say we know Him but there is no relationship, no desire to keep His commandments, we are liars. The truth is not in us.

1 John 2:5-6 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Now I am not talking about struggling with sin. John is not either. The part of what perfects our relationship (our love of God) is the struggle. I have struggled with sin my entire life. I suspect I always will. I personally believe that anyone who says they have it all figured out is lying. I have been a believer for more than 55 years. I don't know the secret to a sin free life. Mainly because there isn't one. You know why we struggle? Because a perfect walk can never be done in the flesh. Jesus gave us an impossible command.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is without a doubt the hardest verse to live by in all of Scripture. I cannot do it. But I try. And I believe God honors the struggle. The struggle proves that the relationship is real. The struggle is how we know we are in Christ. I know it's a real relationship. Non-believers don't have this struggle. Believers do. I know it sounds crazy. But the struggle is my assurance of salvation. How do I know I am saved? I struggle every day. I get knocked down all the time. The relationship exists because I want to get back up and try again. Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
The part of what perfects our relationship (our love of God) is the struggle. I have struggled with sin my entire life. I suspect I always will. I personally believe that anyone who says they have it all figured out is lying. I have been a believer for more than 55 years. I don't know the secret to a sin free life. Mainly because there isn't one. You know why we struggle? Because a perfect walk can never be done in the flesh. Jesus gave us an impossible command.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is without a doubt the hardest verse to live by in all of Scripture. I cannot do it. But I try. And I believe God honors the struggle. The struggle proves that the relationship is real. The struggle is how we know we are in Christ. I know it's a real relationship. Non-believers don't have this struggle. Believers do. I know it sounds crazy. But the struggle is my assurance of salvation. How do I know I am saved? I struggle every day. I get knocked down all the time. The relationship exists because I want to get back up and try again. Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

The earlier part of your post was great stuff. But this bit above made me cringe - and feel sad at what you seem to have come to believe.

I disciple men and have done for three decades or so now. In my experience as a discipler, one of the biggest places of difficulty Christian men have is how they conceive of what it is to be a child of God and how holiness is achieved. Like you, many of them have come to think that holiness is mostly an aspirational thing, an unachievable goal this side of eternity. I don't know if this is true of you, but many of them think of holiness as an all-or-nothing proposition: Either they are perfectly holy or they are not holy at all. By this particular conception of holiness, they relieve themselves of the need to be holy. Since "no one's perfect" - borne out by repeated moral/spiritual failure in their daily living and the testimony of many other believers to the same failure - they conclude that holiness is largely impossible, practically. God knows the impossibility of true holiness for sin-cursed creatures, they tell themselves; it follows, then, that He never intended for His children to actually be people in whom sin was the rare exception rather than the rule.

Believing actual, ever-increasing holiness is unattainable, Christians resort to "trying" to be holy, instead, ennobling their moral/spiritual failure by making it a mark of genuine spiritual life. They emphasize the virtue of having tried but diminish the fact that their trying is actually moral/spiritual failure.

Part of the problem in all this is that Christians have the habit of putting their experience on par with God's truth - or even above it. If a Christian man has sincerely tried, over and over, to live the holy life to which God calls him as His child and he has been unable to do so, his experience, which, for him, commonly defines what is real and true, becomes a qualifier of what God has said to him in the Bible: God's truth is only actually true insofar as it coincides, or agrees with, the man's concrete experience. Many, if not most, Christians operate this way with God's word - though not always consciously.

But this sort of approach to God's Truth is not the approach of faith. God's truth repeatedly and sharply diverges from my experience (and my feelings). For example, the apostle Paul wrote, "What shall we say, then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin continue any longer in it?" (Romans 6:1-3). He goes to explain that a life of persistent sin is totally contrary to the spiritual reality of being a "new creature in Christ" (Romans 6:4-12). But when, as a teenager, I first contemplated what Paul had written in Romans 6, I found myself saying, "But I sin every day! I'm not dead to sin! I'm full of sin! Paul's got it wrong." My experience in no way bore out what Paul said was true of me as a born-again child of God.

But how does the Christian come to actually live in the truth of their being "dead to sin and alive unto God"? By faith; by "reckoning it so" (Romans 6:11). Every, single man - myself included - who begins to live in the truth of Romans 6:1-12, Galatians 2:20, Galatians 5:25, Colossians 2:12-13, Colossians 3:3, etc., must do so contrary both to their experience and what they feel. They have to "walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7) in the matter of their being dead to sin. Until they do, and persist in doing so despite their opposing experience and feelings, they will never experience the truth of their freedom from their "old man" and the sin he produces in their living. It is this "reckoning it so," however, that is one of the two "keys" to a sin-free life, a holy life, that Paul points out in Romans 6 (the other is submission to God - verses 13-18).

So few Christian men, though, live in the Truth of Romans 6, or even know that it explains two of the most basic and essential "keys" to walking with God! And so, they try to make noble a life of sin, a life of failure; they make trying (and failing) a virtue. But God has a better way!; a way that brings the child of God into consistent victory over the World, the Flesh and the devil; a way that is full of joyful, holy fellowship with God.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Strive...for holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

1 Peter 3:10-12
10 For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit;
11 let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

Romans 6:15-18
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
 
Hey All,
Thanks for the comments Tenchi. If you can live a perfect life, praise God. You give me hope that it can be done.
"To thine own self be true," as Polonious said.
I have tried and tried to live up to the standard Jesus set. I cannot do it. I still try. And I like to think I have gotten better at not sinning over the years. But that's not good enough is it? The standard is perfection. I still go before the Lord everyday and ask for forgiveness. That is my experience throughout my christian life. I am a sinner saved by God's grace, through faith in Jesus. It is not of works. (For which I thank God.) I try to remind myself of this everyday.

From what you write, I gather it is not your experience. Maybe that's why you are aghast. There are some of us that have to struggle. I don't know why. I would like to have the easy life and not have to fight with my sin nature. But I have to fight the flesh 24/7. I don't always win. I do fight though. I do get back up when I get knocked down. There is still hope in my heart, and joy in my soul. So I know God still loves me. I don't question my salvation.
Paul struggled with sin.

Romans 7:18-20 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So did John.

1 John 1:7-8 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So I know I am not alone. At least two of the apostles had similar experiences. They still sinned as well. They also give me hope. We know they made it.

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

With the help of the Holy Spirit, I will keep trying. I will keep hoping. I will get back up however many times it takes. I will walk my walk. Thy rod and thy staff comfort me also. Amen.
Keep walking everybody. May God,
Taz
 
Hey All,
Thanks for the comments Tenchi. If you can live a perfect life, praise God. You give me hope that it can be done.
"To thine own self be true," as Polonious said.
I have tried and tried to live up to the standard Jesus set. I cannot do it. I still try. And I like to think I have gotten better at not sinning over the years. But that's not good enough is it? The standard is perfection.

This is what I was talking about in my last post: The all-or-nothing view of holiness. I didn't actually ever say you or any Christian had to be perfectly holy. The apostle Paul, though, believed that all "new creatures in Christ" could be much, much less plagued by sin than they often are. I don't live a perfect life; I don't know what that is, actually. But, by God's power, living in submission to Him and trusting in what He has said about who I am in Christ, sin is an ever-decreasing thing in my life. I don't say this toot my own horn but to declare, "The abundant life in Christ, the holy life necessary to truly knowing God, is possible!" Not by my strength and wit, but by the life and power of the Holy Spirit.

From what you write, I gather it is not your experience. Maybe that's why you are aghast. There are some of us that have to struggle. I don't know why. I would like to have the easy life and not have to fight with my sin nature. But I have to fight the flesh 24/7. I don't always win. I do fight though. I do get back up when I get knocked down. There is still hope in my heart, and joy in my soul. So I know God still loves me. I don't question my salvation.
Paul struggled with sin.

Romans 7 wasn't the last word Paul had to offer about his struggle with the flesh. He went on to describe the means of victory over the flesh in Romans 8:9-14. The struggle - and failure - is never unavoidable. But, the struggle is part of the process by which you and I are crowded to God for deliverance. There is, though, a way of escape that Paul outlined in Romans 6. We don't have to stay mired in sin!

With the help of the Holy Spirit, I will keep trying. I will keep hoping. I will get back up however many times it takes. I will walk my walk. Thy rod and thy staff comfort me also. Amen.

Romans 6:6-12
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Galatians 5:16
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.


God has not left us to stay forever bound in a struggle plagued by failure. There is a way out! I hope and pray you take it, brother!
 
Hello everyone I know the verse in Romans: Whosoever Calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

Can Someone be so deep in sin yet still be saved?
If you want to know what Paul was talking about (and Peter in Acts 2 where he quotes the same verse) go and read the original context. It was traditional in first century Judaism to quote a part of a passage to make people recall the entire context. Just like if I say "For God so loved ..." your mind would fill in the rest of John 3.16.

So go read Joel 2 where this is originally from.
 
Hey All,
I am aware of 1John 3:9-10 Hopeful 2. And I praise God that others can live this sin free life. I have hope that I can get there someday. I received Jesus when I was 4 years old. I am now 65. In 60+ years as a believer, I have never been able to live a sin free life. (Well not counting my age of innocence years, so 50+ years.) I wish I could be a 1John believer.
Now I know my sins are forgiven. I also don't want to commit sin. I do believe I have gotten better over the years. But I still do sin. I am more the Romans and Ephesians type of believer. The things I don't want to do, I do; and the things I want to do, I don't. I am a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus. I have joy in my heart most of the time so I know the salvation is real. When the joy leaves me, I know it is time to ask for forgiveness.
Trying to live a believer's life is a struggle for me every day. I still have lust of the eyes, the flesh, and the pride of life. I know this about myself. If I don't try to "be good," as you put it, I will not be good. I have prayed till I'm blue in the face, God has not taken this away. When Paul talks about his thorn in the flesh, I can totally relate. I accept that this is mine.
But you know what? I know God loves me; not because of who I am. Rather, He loves me regardless of who I am. I am thankful and grateful for God's mercy. I do not deserve it.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
Can Someone be so deep in sin yet still be saved?
Apparently not.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; (20) idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, (21) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Hey All,
Jesus said sin goes beyond the actual act of commiting them Exeter

Matthew 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

If a person lusts after a woman, he has already committed adultery. So how do you get away from that? Who doesn't have these "acts of the flesh" from time to time?

"This is what I was talking about in my last post: The all-or-nothing view of holiness. I didn't actually ever say you or any Christian had to be perfectly holy" Quote from Tenchi

I get what you are saying Tenchi. I was using Jesus' standard.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I cannot do this. My sins have I hope lessened over the years. But that is not the standard, is it SupporterofCristo?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
Hey All,
Jesus said sin goes beyond the actual act of commiting them Exeter

Matthew 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

If a person lusts after a woman, he has already committed adultery. So how do you get away from that? Who doesn't have these "acts of the flesh" from time to time?

"This is what I was talking about in my last post: The all-or-nothing view of holiness. I didn't actually ever say you or any Christian had to be perfectly holy" Quote from Tenchi

I get what you are saying Tenchi. I was using Jesus' standard.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I cannot do this. My sins have I hope lessened over the years. But that is not the standard, is it SupporterofCristo?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
In these bodies we can't be perfect, but we can strive for perfection. We have a new opportunity each day. To me it's about a relationship with Christ. As He shows us where we need pruning, weeding, uprooting in the garden of thoughts in our mind, it is incumbent upon us to obey. This must be done daily.
 
In these bodies we can't be perfect, but we can strive for perfection. We have a new opportunity each day. To me it's about a relationship with Christ. As He shows us where we need pruning, weeding, uprooting in the garden of thoughts in our mind, it is incumbent upon us to obey. This must be done daily.
I like this quote by George MacDonald " There is no heaven with a little of hell in it - no plan to retain this or that of the devil in our hearts or our pockets. Out Satan must go, every hair and feather."
 
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