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Bible Study Contradictions in the Bible: New King James Version

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I have taken these verses from the Biblegateway website.

Contradiction number 1:

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

1And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.(2 Samuel 24: 1)

1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.
(I Chronicles 2 1:1)

Contradiction number 2:

2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

9 Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. (2 Samuel 24:9)

5 Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and Judah had four hundred and seventy thousand men who drew the sword.
(I Chronicles 21:5)
 
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

Satan is to be better understood as an "accuser" or "adversary". The term is applied both to supernatural entities and human beings. The term Satan in Hebrew is derived from the root meaning "to oppose", "to be an adversary" or "to act as an adversary". In the Book of Numbers he is not malevolent and God witnesses him preventing harm:

"But God was incensed at his going; so an angel of the LORD placed himself in his way as an adversary (Hebrew: satan)", Numbers 22:22[5]

Different uses of the word "Satan" in the Tanakh

The Hebrew "Satan" is used in the Hebrew Bible with the general connotation "adversary", or those who act as a adversaries, as with:

* An enemy in war and peace[6]
* An accuser before the judgment-seat[7]
* An antagonist who puts obstacles in the way, as in Numbers 22:22, where the angel of God is described as opposing Balaam as an adversary.

In the Book of Job, ha-satan("the adversary") is a prosecuting attorney against mankind in the heavenly court of God. Other angels are not mentioned by name. He is known as the accuser and is the angel which questions mankind's loyalty to God. He argues that man is only loyal because God gives them prosperity. He is the one who actually delivers all the ills upon Job to test his faith on Gods command.

In 1 Chronicles 21:1, Satan incites David to commit the sin of taking a census of Israel. Five hundred years earlier, this same story portrayed Yahweh as the one who incited David to take the census (2 Samuel 24:1). The later story was written after the Hebrews had been in exile in Babylon and had been exposed to Zoroastrianism.

The Strong's Concordance number for the Hebrew word "Satan" is 07853 and 07854.[8]

"7853 satan saw-tan' a primitive root; to attack, (figuratively) accuse:--(be an) adversary, resist."

"7854 satan saw-tawn' from 7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good:--adversary, Satan, withstand."

This can be used to research the Biblical usage of this word.

Satan as an accuser

Where Satan does appear in the Bible as a member of God's court, he plays the role of the Accuser, much like a prosecuting attorney for God. The following information has been taken directly from the article on 'Satan' in the Jewish Encyclopaedia:

"Such a view is found, however, in the prologue to the Book of Job, where Satan appears, together with other celestial beings or "sons of God," before the Deity, replying to the inquiry of God as to whence he had come, with the words: "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."[9] Both question and answer, as well as the dialogue which follows, characterize Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor, lawyer who sees only iniquity; for he persists in his evil opinion of Job even after the man of Uz has passed successfully through his first trial by surrendering to the will of God, whereupon Satan demands another test through physical suffering.[10]

"Yet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. He cannot be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God. This view is also retained in Zech. 3:1-2, where Satan is described as the adversary of the high priest Joshua, and of the people of God whose representative the hierarch is; and he there opposes the "angel of the Lord" who bids him be silent in the name of God.

"In both of these passages Satan is a mere accuser who acts only according to the permission of the Deity; but in 1 Chronicles 21:1 he appears as one who is able to provoke David to destroy Israel. The Chronicler (third century B.C.) regards Satan as an independent agent, a view which is the more striking since the source whence he drew his account[11] speaks of God Himself as the one who moved David against the children of Israel. Since the older conception refers all events, whether good or bad, to God alone,[12] it is possible that the Chronicler, and perhaps even Zechariah, were influenced by Zoroastrianism, even though in the case of the prophet Jewish monism strongly opposed Iranian dualism.[13] An immediate influence of the Babylonian concept of the "accuser, persecutor, and oppressor"[14] is impossible, since traces of such an influence, if it had existed, would have appeared in the earlier portions of the Bible."[15]



With regard to the 1 Chronicles 21:1 passage, it is known that, at times, Yahweh gives Satan the authority to carry out wicked deeds, as in the book of Job. It has similarly been argued that Satan entered Judas so that the Son of Man could be delivered over to the officials. (Luke 22:3)


See also:
http://www.carm.org/diff/2Sam24_1.htm

Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? God or Satan?
2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1



1. God did (2 Samuel 24:1) - "Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."
2. Satan did (1 Chronicles 21:1) - "Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel."

Is this a contradiction? Not at all. In 2 Samuel 24:1, God incited David to number Israel because God was angry with David. Ultimately, God wanted to teach David not to trust in his number of fighting men, but to trust in Him. So, He moved to let David count the fighting men of Israel. He used Satan to do it which is why in 1 Chronicles 21:1, it says Satan moved David to count the men. Both are true. God most probably either sent Satan or allowed Satan to do incite David. But, how can God send Satan to do a job and yet God is not responsible for the sin? Simple.
God's authority extends even over Satan. God can use Satan to accomplish His ultimate will by simply giving permission to Satan to do that which Satan already desires to do. We see this in the crucifixion of Christ where evil men brought Jesus to death. Yet, at the same time, it was the predetermined plan of God that this be done.

27 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur," (Acts 4:27-28, NASB).

Furthermore, we see in Job that God allowed Satan to test Job and demonstrate Job's character (Job 1:8-13). We see in John 13:25-27 that Satan entered into Judas to betray Jesus, but it was the plan of God that Jesus be betrayed as Acts 4:27-28 above tells us.
God allows the evil one to work His evil yet that word is ultimately used for the glory of God. All this is done without God sinning and it demonstrates God's absolute sovereignty over all creation.
 
2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/508

Many alleged discrepancies in the Bible deal with numerical values being different from one book to the next. Several plausible ways exist to show that these differing numbers are not really discrepancies at all. It could be the case that the different authors were counting different groups of people or rounding off their numbers to different places.

One such alleged discrepancy that involves differing numerical values is found between 1 Chronicles 21:5 and 2 Samuel 24:9.

1 Chronicles 21:5 (ASV): “Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and Judah had four hundred and seventy thousand men who drew the sword.â€Â

2 Samuel 24:9 (ASV): “Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.â€Â

Obviously, the numbers given for the men of Israel differ by 300,000, while the numbers for the men of Judah differ by 30,000. Are there any possible solutions to this alleged discrepancy? The truth of the matter is that there are several possible solutions. Let us deal first with the differing number of the men of Israel.

The first possible solution is based upon a closer reading of the text. When the two verses are compared, 1 Chronicles 21:5 says that “All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword†(emp. added). But 2 Samuel says, “And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword†(emp. added). It could be that the author of 2 Samuel was indicating the number of “seasoned veterans†or “valiant†men, while the author of 1 Chronicles was numbering any man who drew the sword, not just the valiant ones. Gleason Archer concluded:

A possible solution may be found along these lines. So far as Israel (i.e., the tribes north of Judah) is concerned, the 1 Chronicles figure includes all the available men of fighting age, whether battle seasoned or not. But from 2 Samuel 24 we learn that Joab’s report gave a subtotal of “mighty men†(‘ish hayil), i.e., battle-seasoned troops, consisting of 800,000 veterans. But in addition there may have been 300,000 more men of military age who served in the reserves but had not yet been involved in field combat. These two contingents would make up a total of 1,100,000 menâ€â€as 1 Chronicles reports them, with employing the term ‘ish hayil (1982, pp. 188-189).

Remember that the only thing required to prove that a discrepancy does not exist is to provide a single possible solution (see Lyons, 2004). Archer’s explanation reveals quite clearly one possible solution. However, it is by no means the only one. Eric Vestrum lists another quite reasonable solution to the problem.

There is another possibility that will be reasonable after examination. The reader should re-read 1 Chr 27. Notice here that there are 12 divisions of 24,000 men each, giving a total of 288,000 men. It is possible that the Chronicler counts these men whereas the author of 2 Sam does not. Notice that the 800,000 men in 2 Sam were included in a census, as David wanted to know how many men there were for fighting. Yet, as the numbers of divisions were apparently fixed at 24,000 per division, one would presumably not need to take a census of groups whose sizes are intrinsically defined by a priori fixed numbers. It is not requiring too much to state that it is reasonably possible that the author of 2 Sam did not include these 288,000 while the (different) author of 1 Chr did. With two different authors writing apart from each other at non-identical times, it is not at all specious to assert a reasonable plausibility to a different mode of reckoning in reporting the census (Vestrum).

These two explanations suffice to prove that the numbers of men in Israel are not irreconcilable.

See also:

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Sam24_9.htm

How many fighting men were found in
Judah and Israel?
2 Samuel 24:9 and 1 Chronicles 21:5


1. Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9) - "And Joab gave the number of the registration of the people to the king; and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men."
2. Four hundred and seventy thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5) - "And Joab gave the number of the census of all the people to David. And all Israel were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword; and Judah was 470,000 men who drew the sword."

Israel
2 Sam 24:9 --------- 800,000 "valiant" men
1 Chronicles 21:5 -- 1,100,000 men

Judah
2 Sam 24:9 --------- 500,000 men
1 Chronicles 21:5 --- 470,000 men

Regarding Israel's number difference:

The solution to the difference in counts for Israel seems to be answered in the Hebrew word for "valiant," which is "chayil" found in 2 Samuel 24:9. It means, "men of valor, army, host, etc." It seems to mean that the men numbered in 2 Samuel 24:9 were those with battle experience where the men of 1 Chronicles 21:5 were not. It was most probably true that there were an additional 300,000 men ready for battle who had not yet experienced it. Therefore, 2 Sam. 24:9 numbers only the experienced men, where 1 Chronicles 21:5 numbers all men of battle ready age.


Regarding Judah's number difference:

The solution seems to be provided for us in the following verse six which says,

1Chronicles 21:6 But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king's word was abominable to Joab.

Verse six states that the numbering process had not yet been completed since the tribes of Levi and Benjamin had not been numbered.
 
For a simple summarized answer to #1 God can have active and passive judgement. His passive judgement is where he lets us either bring destruction on ourself, by not intervening, or he lets Satan test us (as he did Job). When Job was struck by Satan Job knew it was God's judgement on Him, because God is Absolute Soveriegn. And he controls the interactions between men and himself (within the respect of our free will also of course). So Satan did the tempting but God allowed it, but God got pointed at as the judge, as sovereign.
 
How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. (2 Samuel 24:9)

Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and Judah had four hundred and seventy thousand men who drew the sword.
(I Chronicles 21:5)
 
Regarding the first contradiction, are you telling me that God allowed it through Satan? So what about all the millions of Jews who died under the nazi's. No we have a free will to choose from right and wrong.

How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. (2 Samuel 24:9)

Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and Judah had four hundred and seventy thousand men who drew the sword.
(I Chronicles 21:5)
 
deep_thinking said:
Regarding the first contradiction, are you telling me that God allowed it through Satan? So what about all the millions of Jews who died under the nazi's. No we have a free will to choose from right and wrong.

How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. (2 Samuel 24:9)

Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and Judah had four hundred and seventy thousand men who drew the sword.
(I Chronicles 21:5)
How many virgins do muslims receive when they are martyred and arrive in "wherever it is the muslims go" seventy, or seventy two? Why do these dark eyed virgins number seventy or seventy two? How long are the virgins, virgins? According to Jesus, there is no such thing as sexual relationships in heaven.
 
According to the rules of this forum, i must not advertise any religion. Furthermore i havent heard this before what you are talking about, and also it has nothing to do with the topic in hand. If you would like to send me a private message of what you have read i will be happy to help you. Or you can start a new thread discussing this.
 
God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me. (2 Samuel 24:13)

Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
(I Chronicles 21:12)

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel. (2 Kings 8:26)

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.
(2 Chronicles 22:2)
 
Regarding the first contradiction, are you telling me that God allowed it through Satan? So what about all the millions of Jews who died under the nazi's. No we have a free will to choose from right and wrong.

What does free will have to do with who did the tempting? You still have free will to give into it or not. The only point I was making was that it wasn't a contradiction to say that God and Satan did, because God is sovereign and oversees (not condones) the work Satan up to a point. He keeps him on a leash, just like how he wouldn't let Satan touch Job's life (kill him).
 
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

1And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.(2 Samuel 24: 1)

1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.
(I Chronicles 2 1:1)

So it comes back again who was it God or Satan?
 
deep_thinking said:
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

2 Samuel 24: 1, I Chronicles 2 1:1 . . .

So it comes back again who was it God or Satan?

hi deep_thinking,

Answers given in previous posts etc . . .

1. God
2. Satan
3. David
4. order executed by palace staff (probably)

- - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - -
In the book of Job 1:6-22.
Job's catastrophy. . .

1. God
2. Satan
3. the Sabeans
4. fire from heaven
5. Chaldeans
6. a great wind.

So who is responsible? Does God tempt anyone?

blessings: stranger
 
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.(2 Samuel 24: 1)

Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.
(I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2 Samuel 24: 1 should read -
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He suffered David to be moved against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

HE SUFFERED is a Hebrew Idiom (even used in Modern Hebrew) by which means a person does that which he permits to be done.

God didn't instruct David to number the people. They were God's people not his. This violated the covenant he made with them, in showing onwership. Also the vanity of how much he possesed.

The Idiom also makes the implication that if he himself would permit it, then Satan or his own self interests were reasons behind his decision. Using Satan name as the one who incited the transgression futher shows, these orders to number the people weren't of God.
 
The others are right about the number of men counted to fight. I'll get back 2 u on the others! The famine one is 7 in one and 3 1/2 in another, because Israel had previously come under a curse or time of judgement from God, for the same number of years . If i remember correctly!?! This is why Gad the prophet says "Shall seven (3 more) years of famine come unto thee in thy land?." And Ahaziah has 20 years tacked on because he was 2nd in line to Omri and co-reigned 2 years I think, and reigned by himself 1. Since they mentioned Omri in Connection with his son this is often done as a qualifier. This is off the top of my head so don't quote me yet! EW Bullinger usually does a good job with stuff like this I believe some of it is in appendix 50 chart of the companion Bible. Get back to you!
 
Sorry i haven't got back to u my pc's been down and it'll be another week b4 its rt! 101 condratictions in the Bible has these same questions also.
 
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