Could ALL of Gods Laws REALLY Have been NAILED to HIS CROSS

[Eccl12and13]

Re: Could ALL of Gods Laws REALLY Have been NAILED to HIS CROSS?

AND NOW WE KNOW HOW LONG THEY WERE TO HOLD THE OFFICE!!!!

"for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations."

Its not that simple.

The word "everlasting" here is based on the Hebrew "owlam". This same root is used in contexts where we know that it does not connote a truly permanent state of affairs.

Consider this from 1 Samuel 1:

It came about in due time, after Hannah had conceived, that she gave birth to a son; and she named him Samuel, saying, "(Z)Because I have asked him of the LORD." 21Then the man Elkanah (AA)went up with all his household to offer to the LORD the yearly sacrifice and pay his vow. 22But Hannah did not go up, for she said to her husband, "I will not go up until the child is weaned; then I will (AB)bring him, that he may appear before the LORD and (AC)stay there forever."

The same Hebrew word here is rendered "forever". If "owlam" really means forever, the mother is effectively saying "I wll bring Samuel to this place and there he will live there eternally. Despite the evidence that all men die, my son will be an exception, he will live to be billions and billions of years old".

I trust the point is clear - the term "forever" does not really mean forever.

There are other texts I could put forward where owlam clearly denotes a limited time interval. It is an oversimplification to take Exodus 40:15 as affirming the permance of the office of the Levitical priests.

Therefore, we can indeed assert that their office came to an end with the abolition of the entirety of Torah.

Let's get an understanding of ALL of the chapter:

1 Sam.1
[11] And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no rasor come upon his head.

So now we see the 'Forever' Hannah was talking about. Not that the lad would literally STAY at the temple 'forever', but simply that as long as she had him she would ensure he would keep the day of Atonement. Come on Drew....

Drew, you said, "Your entire argument presumes that the assignment of temple service to the Levites is everlasting." And, "However, I see no justification for an assumption of the permanence of any part of Torah."

Then I show you that it was:

Exod.40
[15] And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

Then you said, "Its not that simple." And TRY to give me an example of forever, that just does not work, which is proven above.

What's next Drew? I'm waiting!!

 

[einstein]

If you read the Hebrew Bible in the original Hebrew it's obvious that G-d's covenant and Torah was to be followed by Israel forever. In fact the Eternal instructs Moses that nothing is to be added to it or subtracted from it. Like any language, Hebrew words may have a different connotation depending on context. In the example given by Drew the meaning is that Samuel was to serve in his eternity, ie all the days of his life. But in the context of Torah and the levitical priesthood the word "olam" without doubt, means "forever ".

 

[XTruth]

If you read the Hebrew Bible in the original Hebrew it's obvious that G-d's covenant and Torah was to be followed by Israel forever. In fact the Eternal instructs Moses that nothing is to be added to it or subtracted from it. Like any language, Hebrew words may have a different connotation depending on context. In the example given by Drew the meaning is that Samuel was to serve in his eternity, ie all the days of his life. But in the context of Torah and the levitical priesthood the word "olam" without doubt, means "forever ".

Okay, you sound well studied, so I won't go into detail with this question, you should know about Galatians, also.

Please explain Galatians in a way that doesn't contradict your previous post. I'm sure you can, I am just curious of how

 

[Tomlane]

RND,

Is it possible that the feasts, festivals and holy days can also apply to Christ's second coming?

Differently, After the tribulation period and when Christ returns. I don't think sacrifices will, I'm just guessing on that one. When they do the passover feast it again it will be in remembrance of the third passover. Isn't that why Christ told his disciples he wouldn't partake of it again until he returns.

And isn't the second passover that we are all under for salvation?

Tomlane

 

[einstein]

If you read the Hebrew Bible in the original Hebrew it's obvious that G-d's covenant and Torah was to be followed by Israel forever. In fact the Eternal instructs Moses that nothing is to be added to it or subtracted from it. Like any language, Hebrew words may have a different connotation depending on context. In the example given by Drew the meaning is that Samuel was to serve in his eternity, ie all the days of his life. But in the context of Torah and the levitical priesthood the word "olam" without doubt, means "forever ".

Okay, you sound well studied, so I won't go into detail with this question, you should know about Galatians, also.

Please explain Galatians in a way that doesn't contradict your previous post. I'm sure you can, I am just curious of how

Not being Christian, I do not profess any expertise on the Greek Testament. Let me say that I do not view it as inspired or the word of G-d as I believe the Hebrew Bible to be. FWIW, however, I do not have any problems , not only with the internal contradictions in Paul's writing, but also with the contradictions to the Hebrew Bible. You can have Paul, I'll take Moses. :yes

 

[RND]

RND,

Is it possible that the feasts, festivals and holy days can also apply to Christ's second coming?

Differently, After the tribulation period and when Christ returns. I don't think sacrifices will, I'm just guessing on that one. When they do the passover feast it again it will be in remembrance of the third passover. Isn't that why Christ told his disciples he wouldn't partake of it again until he returns

Second and third passover? I'm only aware of one passover and it's meaning.

Tom, have you though much that Jesus returns on the Day of Atonement? According to the feast there was a final and singular trumpet blast announcing the end of the feast.

Lev 25:9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth [day] of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

And isn't the second passover that we are all under for salvation?

Justification. The passover was for justification (blood for the covering of sins). Those that took part were allowed into the "sanctuary" where sanctification took place.

 

[XTruth]

If you read the Hebrew Bible in the original Hebrew it's obvious that G-d's covenant and Torah was to be followed by Israel forever. In fact the Eternal instructs Moses that nothing is to be added to it or subtracted from it. Like any language, Hebrew words may have a different connotation depending on context. In the example given by Drew the meaning is that Samuel was to serve in his eternity, ie all the days of his life. But in the context of Torah and the levitical priesthood the word "olam" without doubt, means "forever ".

Okay, you sound well studied, so I won't go into detail with this question, you should know about Galatians, also.

Please explain Galatians in a way that doesn't contradict your previous post. I'm sure you can, I am just curious of how

Not being Christian, I do not profess any expertise on the Greek Testament. Let me say that I do not view it as inspired or the word of G-d as I believe the Hebrew Bible to be. FWIW, however, I do not have any problems , not only with the internal contradictions in Paul's writing, but also with the contradictions to the Hebrew Bible. You can have Paul, I'll take Moses. :yes

I wish you would take Moses, but you don't really believe Moses. You believe to have God, but you don't possess the God you profess to have (1 John 5:1-5; 2 Jn.9); but you can (Jn.3:16; 6:27; Rom.5:12-21; 1 Jn.5:20). You haven't believed your own prophets either, but I'll just use Moses, since you claim to believe his words.

1. Seed of a woman (virgin birth)â€â€Gen. 3:15 Luke 1:35; Matt. 1:18–20
2. He will bruise Satan’s headâ€â€Gen. 3:15 Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:18
3. Bodily ascension to heaven Gen. 5:24 Mark 6:19
4. Son of Shem Gen. 9:26–27 Luke 3:36
5. From Abraham’s seed Gen. 12:3 Acts 3:25–26
6. Promised to Abraham’s seed Gen. 12:7 Gal. 3:16
7. A priest after Melchizedek Gen. 14:18 Heb. 6:20
8. A King also Gen. 14:18 Heb. 7:2
9. Last Supper foreshadowed Gen. 14:18 Matt. 26:26–29
10. Seed of Isaac Gen. 17:19 Rom. 9:7
11. Lamb of God promised Gen. 22:8 John 1:29
12. Isaac’s seed will bless all nations Gen. 22:18 Gal. 3:16
13. Redeemer from seed of Isaac Gen. 26:2–5 Heb. 11:18
14. Time of His appearing Gen. 49:10 Luke 2:1–7; Gal. 4:4
15. Seed of Judah Gen. 49:10 Luke 3:33
16. Called Shiloh or “One Sentâ€Â Gen. 49:10 John 17:3
17. Before Judah loses identity Gen. 49:10 John 11:47–52
18. Obedience to Him Gen. 49:10 John 10:16
19. The Great I AMâ€â€Exod. 3:13–14 John 4:26
20. A Lamb without blemish Exod. 12:5 1 Pet. 1:19
21. Lamb’s blood saves from wrath Exod. 12:13 Rom. 5:8
22. Christ our Passover Exod. 12:21–27 1 Cor. 5:7
23. No bone of the Lamb broken Exod. 12:46 John 19:31–36
24. Exaltation predicted as Yeshua Exod. 15:2 Acts 7:55–56
25. Holiness His character Exod. 15:11 Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
26. Spiritual Rock of Israel Exod. 17:6 1 Cor. 10:4
27. Merciful Exod. 33:19 Luke 1:72
28. Leper cleansed; priesthood sign Lev. 14:11 Luke 5:12–14; Matt. 8:2
29. Christ’s death once for all Lev. 16:15–17; Heb. 9:7–14
30. Suffering outside the camp Lev. 16:27 Matt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11–12
31. Blood, life of the flesh Lev. 17:11 Matt. 26:28; Mark 10:45
32. Blood makes atonement Lev. 17:11 John 3:14–18
33. “If any man thirst†drink offering Lev. 23:36–37; John 19:31–36
34. Not a bone broken Num. 9:12; John 19:31–36
35. Christ lifted up on cross Num. 21:9; John 3:14–18
36. Time: “see him, but not nowâ€Â Num. 24:17; Gal. 4:4
37. A prophet would come Deut. 18:15; John 6:14
38. Believed Moses, believe me Deut. 18:15–16; John 5:45–47
39. Sent to speak Father’s word Deut. 18:18; John 8:28–29
40. Bear sin if you will not hear Deut. 18:19; John 12:15
41. Cursed; hangs on a tree Deut. 21:23; Gal. 3:10–13
(1-41) used from http://www.bennyhinn.org/articles/artic ... cfm?id=222

Lk.24:25-27 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Lk.24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jn.5:39-47 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
I receive not honour from men.
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jn.6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 13:38-39 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Heb.3:1-6 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

 

[RND]

I wish you would take Moses, but you don't really believe Moses. You believe to have God, but you don't possess the God you profess to have (1 John 5:1-5; 2 Jn.9); but you can (Jn.3:16; 6:27; Rom.5:12-21; 1 Jn.5:20). You haven't believed your own prophets either, but I'll just use Moses, since you claim to believe his words.

I really don't see how posts such as these are helpful at bridging the gap between Christians and Jews. Telling someone what they believe, as if they could even know, isn't helpful or necessary. Statements like, "You believe to have God, but you don't possess the God you profess to have..." do nothing for the advancement of Christian teaching in love and understanding and is completely rude and unnecessary. Why would anyone want to convert to Christianity when this type of venom is an example of the result?

I see a lot of venom and vile in this post directed at an individual that no doubt has a different outlook (most likely proper) on the Torah and Tanakh than the person spewing the venom. Throwing a boat load of scripture at an someone that denies the veracity of the Greek text isn't helpful, it just drive a deeper wedge between the issue. The Messiah is clearly in the Torah and Tanakh and that is where the Berean Jews found him.

If it's any consolation einstein I followed what you were were saying.

The Bible in the hands of a carnal heart is like a chainsaw in the hands of a baby!

 

[XTruth]

I wish you would take Moses, but you don't really believe Moses. You believe to have God, but you don't possess the God you profess to have (1 John 5:1-5; 2 Jn.9); but you can (Jn.3:16; 6:27; Rom.5:12-21; 1 Jn.5:20). You haven't believed your own prophets either, but I'll just use Moses, since you claim to believe his words.

I really don't see how posts such as these are helpful at bridging the gap between Christians and Jews. Telling someone what they believe, as if they could even know, isn't helpful or necessary. Statements like, "You believe to have God, but you don't possess the God you profess to have..." do nothing for the advancement of Christian teaching in love and understanding and is completely rude and unnecessary. Why would anyone want to convert to Christianity when this type of venom is an example of the result?

I see a lot of venom and vile in this post directed at an individual that no doubt has a different outlook (most likely proper) on the Torah and Tanakh than the person spewing the venom. Throwing a boat load of scripture at an someone that denies the veracity of the Greek text isn't helpful, it just drive a deeper wedge between the issue. The Messiah is clearly in the Torah and Tanakh and that is where the Berean Jews found him.

If it's any consolation einstein I followed what you were were saying.

The Bible in the hands of a carnal heart is like a chainsaw in the hands of a baby!

oH, OK, i GUESS THIS IS WHERE i'M SUPPOSE TO DEFFEND MYself and turn this thread away from the subject :eyebrow Well, I won't really go all out, but I will say that what you just said about me wasn't in the love and understanding that you believe is needed in the way you think it should be given. I gave the Scripture to one who believes the Old, but not the New Testament. Isn't this what Jesus and Paul did? I told him he didn't have God, though he believes he does. Is this not what the Scripture references I gave him claim? Jesus didn't come to bring peace, but rather division (Lk.12:51). The Word of God offends, thank you RND for proving Scripture true :amen What I had told this person was out of love; for without Jesus, there is no eternal life (Jn.14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom.3:23-25; 1 Jn.5:20). By accepting an unbeliever's belief's, you confuse what is to be accepted, which is the person, not a belief that puts them on the broad road (Mat.7:13-14; Lk.13:24-27). Tell me how you show love by holding the truth from him, and I'll show you how I show love by speaking the truth. The words of God...vile venom :naughty :bigfrown

 

[RND]

oH, OK, i GUESS THIS IS WHERE i'M SUPPOSE TO DEFFEND MYself and turn this thread away from the subject :eyebrow Well, I won't really go all out, but I will say that what you just said about me wasn't in the love and understanding that you believe is needed in the way you think it should be given.

Yes, I forgot. You are a reader of men's hearts and minds. If you want to question the intentions in which I presented this to you brother, that's your business. I just think that you should be a little less willing to condemn and more apt to teach.

As a non-Christian that knows the Torah and Tanakh einstein could most likely teach you a few things about the meaning of them.

I gave the Scripture to one who believes the Old, but not the New Testament.

Which is kinda akin to making him eat peanuts when he's allergic to them. Look, even if we never had the NT we could discern God plan of salvation through the Toraha and Tanakh. See 2 Tomothy 3:16.

Isn't this what Jesus and Paul did?

Did Jesus have a New Testament KJV? Did Paul?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

I told him he didn't have God, though he believes he does.

Well, that's not a decision for you to make is it? That's taking the purview and prerogative of God into your own hands. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's job is to convict and to woo, not yours.

What you are more apt to do with this tactic is to turn people away from the Lord and the truth of the scripture. That's not a Christians job.

Is this not what the Scripture references I gave him claim?

Did Abraham have a Bible? Noah? Enoch? Moses? David? Joseph? Daniel?

Jesus didn't come to bring peace, but rather division (Lk.12:51).

I suppose this would explain why Israel had such strife with her neighbors. The point is that it is the scriptures that cause division, not that you are supposed to. This is what Jesus was currently discussing and what He was saying in relation to the prophet Moshe in Exodus 8:23.

Luk 12:56 [Ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

The Word of God offends, thank you RND for proving Scripture true :amen What I had told this person was out of love; for without Jesus, there is no eternal life (Jn.14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom.3:23-25; 1 Jn.5:20).

So God makes people just to be lost? Where does Romans 2 fit in you paradigm?

By accepting an unbeliever's belief's, you confuse what is to be accepted, which is the person, not a belief that puts them on the broad road (Mat.7:13-14; Lk.13:24-27).

Actually, I trust the Holy Spirit will do it's job.

Tell me how you show love by holding the truth from him,

You mean Moses had no truth?

and I'll show you how I show love by speaking the truth.

Tell me, how does turn or burn fit into your paradigm?

The words of God...vile venom :naughty :bigfrown

Maybe he knows more about God and is being drawn to God by the power of Christ through the Holy Spirit than you may think. Go back to sow mode. Your job isn't to reap.

 

[Vic C.]

sidebar

Tom, have you though much that Jesus returns on the Day of Atonement? According to the feast there was a final and singular trumpet blast announcing the end of the feast.

a quick off topic post:

RND, check this out:

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

 

[einstein]

oH, OK, i GUESS THIS IS WHERE i'M SUPPOSE TO DEFFEND MYself and turn this thread away from the subject :eyebrow Well, I won't really go all out, but I will say that what you just said about me wasn't in the love and understanding that you believe is needed in the way you think it should be given.

Yes, I forgot. You are a reader of men's hearts and minds. If you want to question the intentions in which I presented this to you brother, that's your business. I just think that you should be a little less willing to condemn and more apt to teach.

As a non-Christian that knows the Torah and Tanakh einstein could most likely teach you a few things about the meaning of them.

I gave the Scripture to one who believes the Old, but not the New Testament.

Which is kinda akin to making him eat peanuts when he's allergic to them. Look, even if we never had the NT we could discern God plan of salvation through the Toraha and Tanakh. See 2 Tomothy 3:16.

[quote:2c9lh4x6]Isn't this what Jesus and Paul did?

Did Jesus have a New Testament KJV? Did Paul?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

I told him he didn't have God, though he believes he does.

Well, that's not a decision for you to make is it? That's taking the purview and prerogative of God into your own hands. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's job is to convict and to woo, not yours.

What you are more apt to do with this tactic is to turn people away from the Lord and the truth of the scripture. That's not a Christians job.

Is this not what the Scripture references I gave him claim?

Did Abraham have a Bible? Noah? Enoch? Moses? David? Joseph? Daniel?

Jesus didn't come to bring peace, but rather division (Lk.12:51).

I suppose this would explain why Israel had such strife with her neighbors. The point is that it is the scriptures that cause division, not that you are supposed to. This is what Jesus was currently discussing and what He was saying in relation to the prophet Moshe in Exodus 8:23.

Luk 12:56 [Ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

The Word of God offends, thank you RND for proving Scripture true :amen What I had told this person was out of love; for without Jesus, there is no eternal life (Jn.14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom.3:23-25; 1 Jn.5:20).

So God makes people just to be lost? Where does Romans 2 fit in you paradigm?

By accepting an unbeliever's belief's, you confuse what is to be accepted, which is the person, not a belief that puts them on the broad road (Mat.7:13-14; Lk.13:24-27).

Actually, I trust the Holy Spirit will do it's job.

Tell me how you show love by holding the truth from him,

You mean Moses had no truth?

and I'll show you how I show love by speaking the truth.

Tell me, how does turn or burn fit into your paradigm?

The words of God...vile venom :naughty :bigfrown

Maybe he knows more about God and is being drawn to God by the power of Christ through the Holy Spirit than you may think. Go back to sow mode. Your job isn't to reap.[/quote:2c9lh4x6]

RND: Thank you for a most considerate post. I could go through all of the 41 passages quoted to demonstrate why they are erroneous, but then I saw the source. Benny Hinn!. Give me a break. The Canadian Broadcasting Co. did an investigative show on him and demonstrated him to be a totally fraud. :naughty Mansion in California and the whole nine yards! :biglol

 

[RND]

Re: sidebar

Tom, have you though much that Jesus returns on the Day of Atonement? According to the feast there was a final and singular trumpet blast announcing the end of the feast.

a quick off topic post:

RND, check this out:

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

Thanks Vic.

 

[RND]

RND: Thank you for a most considerate post.

I could go through all of the 41 passages quoted to demonstrate why they are erroneous, but then I saw the source. Benny Hinn!. Give me a break. The Canadian Broadcasting Co. did an investigative show on him and demonstrated him to be a totally fraud. :naughty Mansion in California and the whole nine yards! :biglol

Yeah, I saw the source myself and unfortunately dismissed it as well. However, as I like to say. even a broken clock is correct twice a day!

If anything einstein, I still believe the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob still speaks to His people through the Torah and Tanakh. And I think that's what I was trying to convey. Smacking people in the head with a sledgehammer called the NT isn't the way in speaking the truth, it only appears that way. Rabbi Shaul never smacked anyone on the head.

 

[XTruth]

RND: Thank you for a most considerate post.

I could go through all of the 41 passages quoted to demonstrate why they are erroneous, but then I saw the source. Benny Hinn!. Give me a break. The Canadian Broadcasting Co. did an investigative show on him and demonstrated him to be a totally fraud. :naughty Mansion in California and the whole nine yards! :biglol

Yeah, I saw the source myself and unfortunately dismissed it as well. However, as I like to say. even a broken clock is correct twice a day!

If anything einstein, I still believe the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob still speaks to His people through the Torah and Tanakh. And I think that's what I was trying to convey. Smacking people in the head with a sledgehammer called the NT isn't the way in speaking the truth, it only appears that way. Rabbi Shaul never smacked anyone on the head.

Exuse me sweethearts, I wasn't endorsing Benny Hinn, but the information was correct from his site. And if you felt smacked in the face by the Truth, it's b/c the truth hurts when it is against what makes you comfortable. The Old Testament was given to the Christians as well as the Jews of course. The New Testament was Given to the Christians and also the Jews. It was given to all men to keep the words within. Because a Jew doesn't believe in the NT, I'm not suppose to use it to show them the light... b/c they have enough light? RND, do you believe a duel gospel like taught by John Hagee? And I know Jesus is in the Old Testament...that's what 1-41 proved from the first five books...there are about 291 prophecies throughout the OT that point to Jesus. The odds of any man ever fulfilling 8 of those prophecies in one life time is 1x's 10 to the 17th power (1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000). The NT shows the fulfillment. The NT SAYS THAT NO ONE HAS THE FATHER WITHOUT HAVING HIS SON (2 Jn.9). The Jews don't have the Son while denying Jesus...meaning they don't have eternal life. Call me what you will. There could be 100 RND's against the words I used (God's), it won't discourage me to say what I said to someone else. Einstein has refused to believe the fulfillments of the prophets. Satan and his demons are very deceptive. They teach doctrines to explain away all simple facts from God's Word and God does permit this (1 Tim.4:1). God proves His people to see who will believe Him, or doctrines from demons. I won't necessarily give Einstein these truths anymore since he has rejected them. But, it was my job to speak them once. You can't really believe the Holy Spirit's job is the Great Comission, not ours. How will they learn, if we don't tell them? If they reject, then the HS will do His job as long as possible, but there is no guarantee of salvation for anyone who continues to reject God's Word (all of it). Does the HS not know how to do His job? Are we free moral agents that can choose truth or a lie at any given moment throughout life?

 

[RND]

Exuse me sweethearts,

Unnecessary.

I wasn't endorsing Benny Hinn, but the information was correct from his site. And if you felt smacked in the face by the Truth, it's b/c the truth hurts when it is against what makes you comfortable. The Old Testament was given to the Christians as well as the Jews of course. The New Testament was Given to the Christians and also the Jews. It was given to all men to keep the words within. Because a Jew doesn't believe in the NT, I'm not suppose to use it to show them the light... b/c they have enough light?

Can you show a Jew the light with just the Torah and Tanakh as Paul did?

RND, do you believe a duel gospel like taught by John Hagee?

Dual "Gospel.?" Hagee preaches "dual covenant."

And I know Jesus is in the Old Testament...that's what 1-41 proved from the first five books...there are about 291 prophecies throughout the OT that point to Jesus. The odds of any man ever fulfilling 8 of those prophecies in one life time is 1x's 10 to the 17th power (1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000). The NT shows the fulfillment. The NT SAYS THAT NO ONE HAS THE FATHER WITHOUT HAVING HIS SON (2 Jn.9). The Jews don't have the Son while denying Jesus...meaning they don't have eternal life.

Again, that's a decision you don't make.

Call me what you will. There could be 100 RND's against the words I used (God's), it won't discourage me to say what I said to someone else.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of.

Einstein has refused to believe the fulfillments of the prophets. Satan and his demons are very deceptive. They teach doctrines to explain away all simple facts from God's Word and God does permit this (1 Tim.4:1). God proves His people to see who will believe Him, or doctrines from demons. I won't necessarily give Einstein these truths anymore since he has rejected them. But, it was my job to speak them once. You can't really believe the Holy Spirit's job is the Great Comission, not ours. How will they learn, if we don't tell them?

Read Romans 1. The Holy Spirit draws people to the truth of God and they are judged by the amount of light the received.

If they reject, then the HS will do His job as long as possible, but there is no guarantee of salvation for anyone who continues to reject God's Word (all of it).

And you are "perfect" in God's word to the point you can condemn others that even Jesus didn't condemn?

Does the HS not know how to do His job?

Yes, that's the point.

Are we free moral agents that can choose truth or a lie at any given moment throughout life?

Yes. But it the Holy Spirit that convicts, not you.

 

[Rick W]

I like this fellow totopic
much more then this guy

Please, no more inflammatory remarks through opinion, innuendo or sarcasm. :gah
Or anything else for that matter.

thank you

 

[Drew]

If you read the Hebrew Bible in the original Hebrew it's obvious that G-d's covenant and Torah was to be followed by Israel forever. In fact the Eternal instructs Moses that nothing is to be added to it or subtracted from it. Like any language, Hebrew words may have a different connotation depending on context. In the example given by Drew the meaning is that Samuel was to serve in his eternity, ie all the days of his life. But in the context of Torah and the levitical priesthood the word "olam" without doubt, means "forever ".

This is merely a statement of your position - there is no actual argument here to support the notion that Levitical priesthoof of Torah is to last forever. I raised a plausibilty argument, giving a definitive example of the word "owlam" not denoting an eternal time period. That argument is what it is and shows that "owlam" can indeed denote a time-limited duration. I never claimed that this "proves" that the word is used in this sense in the context of the Levitical priesthood. But you need to do more than simply assert that it means "forever" in that context.

Besides, any instruction to Moses, or anyone else for that matter, that nothing is to be added or subtracted, does not support your case. This is because such an instruction, while limiting the possibility for man to change Torah, leaves entirely open the right for God to modify Torah or otherwsie do away with it (as a written code).

 

[Eccl12and13]

If you read the Hebrew Bible in the original Hebrew it's obvious that G-d's covenant and Torah was to be followed by Israel forever. In fact the Eternal instructs Moses that nothing is to be added to it or subtracted from it. Like any language, Hebrew words may have a different connotation depending on context. In the example given by Drew the meaning is that Samuel was to serve in his eternity, ie all the days of his life. But in the context of Torah and the levitical priesthood the word "olam" without doubt, means "forever ".

This is merely a statement of your position - there is no actual argument here to support the notion that Levitical priesthoof of Torah is to last forever. I raised a plausibilty argument, giving a definitive example of the word "owlam" not denoting an eternal time period. That argument is what it is and shows that "owlam" can indeed denote a time-limited duration. I never claimed that this "proves" that the word is used in this sense in the context of the Levitical priesthood. But you need to do more than simply assert that it means "forever" in that context.

Besides, any instruction to Moses, or anyone else for that matter, that nothing is to be added or subtracted, does not support your case. This is because such an instruction, while limiting the possibility for man to change Torah, leaves entirely open the right for God to modify Torah or otherwsie do away with it (as a written code).

Exod.40
[15] And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

"for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations."

 

[Drew]

Exod.40
[15] And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

"for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations."

You are repeating an argument that has already been countered. I have shown how the term rendered here as "evelasting" is used in contexts where it is clearly that a time-limited duration is being reffered to. This does not prove the intended reading here, but it undermines any claim that this Exodus 40 text must be seen as establishing a truly everlasting Levitical priesthood.

Shall I post other texts where the word "owlam" is clearly not used in the sense of "everlasting"?