Could You Forgive This Man ? Certain Things Warrant Death

[Lewis]

If this man had lived could you forgive him ? Or should he be put to death ?


MIAMI BEACH, Fla. (May 27) - A man killed his two young children Saturday by throwing them off the 15th floor of a landmark South Beach hotel and then jumped to his own death, police said.

The children were 4 and 8 years old and the family was on vacation from Alton, Ill., said police spokesman Bobby Hernandez.

The mother of the children told police she and her husband had been having marital problems for the past six months, Hernandez said. Police did not immediately release the identities of the family members.

The woman heard one of her children screaming from an adjacent room in the Loews Hotel, and when she walked into the room she saw her husband going off the balcony, Hernandez said.

She looked over the railing and saw her husband and her two children lying on a mezzanine roof that is about two floors above the ground.

Hernandez said that despite the marital problems, the family had been celebrating the couple's 10th wedding anniversary.

"It's a terrible tragedy. It's unfortunate that this gentleman was so selfish and in an effort to get back at his wife he took the two most loved people in the world away from her," Hernandez said.

Hernandez said the woman did not know why her husband killed the children and himself.

"There was no indication that he would be capable of doing something as horrible as this," Hernandez said.

People in neighboring rooms said they did not hear any noises, Hernandez said.

A Loews Hotel spokeswoman in Miami would not comment.

 

[paisley]

I think we have to make the distinction between forgiveness and justice because God calls for both. Of course, this man MUST be forgiven on a human/personal level because that is the Biblical thing to do and if he asked God, I know 100% that God would forgive him. However, on a judicial level, if this case went to court, justice would have to be served. Unfortunately, all parties are dead so we can neither forgive or apply justice. However, if he had lived, I would like to believe that he was not doing this act vengefully to get at his wife. I would like to think that somehow (although wrong) he thought he was doing all he could to prevent his children from going through more hurt and pain by ending their lives too, which would make it so much easier to feel compassion for him and forgive him.

 

[Lewis]

I think the man had he lived should have received death, and that is not outside the Bible, Romans 13. People think that because you are Christian that you should not favor the death penalty. The sacrificial laws of the Old Testament are gone but the moral laws sure aren't, they still stand. Last summer a member of my church shot his wife and 2 kids and then hmself. He kiiled everybody. And also these killers, and Kidnapping child killers need to be put to death. If they are not to die, and God has some kind of purpose for them, there is nothing that man can do to kill them. But if God was not for the death penalty He would not have allowed it in His book. The Bible was written by men who spake, as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 1 Peter 1:21, so it is the Word of God. Certain things warrant death. And I know that a lot of you will not agree with this.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Work him in a coal mine.

 

[disciple]

I find what the father did very cruel, what did the children do to deserve death at such a young age? If that man were still alive I would have him prosecuted to the farthest extent of the law, even if it means death.

 

[sehad]

This is an interesting question and it is true that there is a difference between justice and forgiveness. Consider this. Most people, including myself would say that they would try to forgive him but he deserves to die if he had not already. Same and with the hijackers of the 911 incident, kids of the Columbine High School shooting, Kansas City bomber. Because it is biblical that if we do not forgive others that we will not be forgiven of our sins. I do agree that killing two kids was horrendous and but in GOD's eyes he will receive the same eternal punishment as someone that lies. GOD would forgive and forget his crime if he truely repented but(and I think the bible supports this) being forgiven by GOD does not forgive you of the punishment that is coming by man. Certain acts cannot go unpunished by man or it would be utter confusion everywhere but he would still be in heaven with you if he truely repented before he was put to death(if that was his sentence due to this crime instead of suicide).

 

[Lewis]

This is an interesting question and it is true that there is a difference between justice and forgiveness. Consider this. Most people, including myself would say that they would try to forgive him but he deserves to die if he had not already. Same and with the hijackers of the 911 incident, kids of the Columbine High School shooting, Kansas City bomber. Because it is biblical that if we do not forgive others that we will not be forgiven of our sins. I do agree that killing two kids was horrendous and but in GOD's eyes he will receive the same eternal punishment as someone that lies. GOD would forgive and forget his crime if he truely repented but(and I think the bible supports this) being forgiven by GOD does not forgive you of the punishment that is coming by man. Certain acts cannot go unpunished by man or it would be utter confusion everywhere but he would still be in heaven with you if he truely repented before he was put to death(if that was his sentence due to this crime instead of suicide).

Great post and right on the mark.

 

[SputnikBoy]

What is WITH you guys? Sehad is persistently harping on about the fact that forgiveness should not mean a murderer going unpunished when NO ONE has ever suggested that a murderer or any other offender go unpunished. And you, Lewis, keep giving him accolades for this silliness.

What some of us ARE saying is that the punishment should NOT be death by the state ...plainly and simply. :smt021

 

[Lewis]

1 Peter 2:13-14 (King James Version

13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

 

[SputnikBoy]

1 Peter 2:13-14 (King James Version

13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

I'm not sure what all of that means, Lewis, but to me they are just words from an old, old book. I wouldn't want to base my decision TO enforce the death penalty or NOT TO enforce the death penalty on a fellow human being from words in a book ...even if that book happens to be the Bible. If I choose to worship anyone it will be Jesus ...NOT the Bible. I feel that there is too much worship for the Bible and not enough for Jesus going on here as it is.

If you want an example of what Jesus would do when confronted with such a life and death issue, try John 8:3-11. This is one of my favorite scriptures and Christians today would do well to heed the message contained.

 

[sehad]

SputnikBoy, I've addressed your comments in the thread about the Death Penalty just to keep from doing it twice.