Bible Study Covenants Two (Testaments)

[Squeakybro]

COVENANTS TWO COVENANTS(TESTAMENTS)
Gal 4:22-24
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--
Gal 4:28-5:4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
CHAPTER 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Heb 8:6-7
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Heb 7:22
22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 9:15-17
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
Heb 10:9-10
9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)
Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
2 Cor 3:11-17
11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech--
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Gal 4:19-21
19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,
20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
Gal 4:25-26
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, you who do not bear! Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband."
Gal 3:20-23
20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
Gal 4:6-7
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 3:12
12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
Gal 3:15
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
Gal 3:17-18
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Acts 13:39
39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Luke 22:35-36
35 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing."
36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
Rom 8:13
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
James 2:10
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Heb 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
(NKJ)
xxxx There are two covenants(testaments). Just as Abraham had to send one son away so we have to send one covenant away. You cant let them grow together inside you. One or the other not both.

 

[ddubsolo85]

@ Squeakybro

xxxx There are two covenants(testaments). Just as Abraham had to send one son away so we have to send one covenant away. You cant let them grow together inside you. One or the other not both.

Could you specifically list the two covenants you're speaking of? I think I have an idea, but I don't want to guess, and I'd like to respond to what you've said.

Thanks.

God Bless!

 

[Squeakybro]

sure

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

1242 diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay);

from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):

KJV-- covenant, testament.

 

[ddubsolo85]

Squeakybro,

Thank you.

What would you consider the Old Covenant to be?

God Bless!

 

[SputnikBoy]

ALSO, what part do WE play in the New Covenant? A covenant or a contract involves an agreement between two parties.

 

[Squeakybro]

The definition of covenant is testament. I believe that makes it self explanatory.

And it doesnt take two to make a contract. Only one can write it and offer it to who ever wants to join in it.

 

[SputnikBoy]

The definition of covenant is testament. I believe that makes it self explanatory.

And it doesnt take two to make a contract. Only one can write it and offer it to who ever wants to join in it.

A contract or agreement is useless as long as only one party is involved.

 

[Squeakybro]

Whomever

But it is offered.

 

[wavy]

Re: sure

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

1242 diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay);

from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):

KJV-- covenant, testament.

Well, the word "covenant" in this passage is italicized so it is not in the Greek. Also, the ongoing theme of the past few chapters, this chapter, and the next few chapters is the priesthood and how Yahshua is a High Priest. What is getting ready to vanish away or "near disappearing" (Strongs #1451 and 854) is the corrupt temple system in Jerusalem (which came to pass in 70 C.E.) But even then that makes no difference, because the first covenant had put us under a curse, and the sacrificial system wasn't doing anything for the people i.e. making them perfect or keeping them from sin (Heb 10:1). And because this earthly system was only a shadow of the glory that would come through the new covenant, we understand why there is no more sacrifice for sins (Heb 10:26). So there is a difference between the old and new covenants. This, however, has nothing to do with keeping Torah commandments, and if time is given to me, I write out a study of both Hebrews 8 Galations 4:21-31.

 

[JM]

Who is the 'New Covenant' made with?

What is the 'Everlasting Covenant'?

 

[wavy]

Who is the 'New Covenant' made with?

What is the 'Everlasting Covenant'?

The new covenant is made with both houses of Israel.There are many everlasting covenants. Which one are you referring to?

 

[JM]

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant," Heb. 13:20

Strongs: a disposition, arrangement, of any sort, which one wishes to be valid, the last disposition which one makes of his earthly possessions after his death, a testament or will

From what I can tell, in this passage it's singular, I could be wrong and often am...what about this 'everlasting covenant'?

 

[JM]

And I quote: While Covenant theology recognizes the items listed, most of them would be considered lesser covenants that are encompassed by two (possibly three) main covenants.

The Covenant of Works

Having created man in his own image as a free creature with knowledge, righteousness, and holiness, God entered into covenant with Adam that he might bestow upon him further blessing. Called variously the Edenic covenant, the Adamic covenant, the covenant of nature, the covenant of life, or preferably the covenant of works, this pact consisted of (1) a promise of eternal life upon the condition of perfect obedience throughout a probationary period; (2) the threat of death upon disobedience; and (3) the sacrament of the tree of life, or, in addition, the sacraments of paradise and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Although the term "covenant" is not mentioned in the first chapters of Genesis, it is held that all the elements of a covenant are present even though the promise of eternal life is there by implication only. Before the fall Adam was perfect but could still have sinned; had he retained his perfection throughout the probationary period, he would have been confirmed in righteousness and been unable to sin.
Inasmuch as he was acting not only for himself but representatively for mankind, Adam was a public person. His fall therefore affected the entire human race that was to come after him; all are now conceived and born in sin. Without a special intervention of God there would be no hope; all would be lost forever. Gen 2:16, 17.

The good news, however, is that God has intervened in behalf of mankind with another covenant. Unlike the earlier covenant of works, whose mandate was "Do this and you shall live" (cf. Rom. 10:5; Gal. 3:12), the covenant of grace is bestowed on men in their sinful condition with the promise that, in spite of their inability to keep any of the commandments of God, out of sheer grace he forgives their sin and accepts them as his children through the merits of his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, on the condition of Faith.


The Covenant of Redemption

According to covenant theology, the covenant of grace (see below), established in history, is founded on still another covenant, the covenant of redemption, which is defined as the eternal pact between God the Father and God the Son concerning the salvation of mankind. Scripture teaches that within the Godhead there are three persons, the same in essence, glory, and power, objective to each other. The Father loves the Son, commissions him, gives him a people, the right to judge, and authority over all mankind (John 3:16; 5:20, 22, 36; 10:17 - 18; 17:2, 4, 6, 9, 24; Ps. 2:7 - 8; Heb. 1:8 - 13); the Son loves the Father, delights to do his will, and has shared his glory forever (Heb. 10:7; John 5:19; 17:5). The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit commune with each other; this is one of the meanings of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

On this foundation covenant theology affirms that God the Father and God the Son covenanted together for the redemption of the human race, the Father appointing the Son to be the mediator, the Second Adam, whose life would be given for the salvation of the world, and the Son accepting the commission, promising that he would do the work which the Father had given him to do and fulfill all righteousness by obeying the law of God. Thus before the foundation of the world, within the eternal being of God, it had been determined that creation would not be destroyed by sin, but that rebellion and iniquity would be overcome by God's grace, that Christ would become the new head of humanity, the Savior of the world, and that God would be glorified.


The Covenant of Grace

This covenant has been made by God with mankind. In it he offers life and salvation through Christ to all who believe. Inasmuch as none can believe without the special grace of God, it is more exact to say that the covenant of grace is made by God with believers, or the elect. Jesus said that all those whom the Father had given him would come to him and that those who come would surely be accepted (John 6:37). Herein is seen the close relation between the covenant of grace and the covenant of redemption, with the former resting on the latter. From eternity the Father has given a people to the Son; to them was given the promised Holy Spirit so that they might live in fellowship with God. Christ is the mediator of the covenant of grace inasmuch as he has borne the guilt of sinners and restored them to a saving relationship to God (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24). He is mediator, not only in the sense of arbitrator, although that is the sense in which the word is used in 1 Tim. 2:5, but in the sense of having fulfilled all the conditions necessary for procuring eternal salvation for his people.

Thus Heb. 7:22 calls Jesus the "surety" or "guarantee" of the new covenant, which is better than that which came through Moses. Within the context of this last passage repeated mention is made of God's promise to Christ and his people. He will be their God and they will be his people. He will bestow on them the grace they need to confess his name and live with him forever; in humble dependence on him for their every need, they will live in trustful obedience from day to day. This latter, called faith in Scripture, is the sole condition of the covenant, and even it is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8 - 9).

Although the covenant of grace includes various dispensations of history, it is essentially one. From the promise in the garden (Gen. 3:15), through the covenant made with Noah (Gen. 6 - 9), to the day that the covenant was established with Abraham, there is abundant evidence of God's grace. With Abraham a new beginning is made which the later, Sinaitic covenant implements and strengthens. At Sinai the covenant assumes a national form and stress is laid on the law of God. This is not intended to alter the gracious character of the covenant, however (Gal. 3:17 - 18), but it is to serve to train Israel until the time would come when God himself would appear in its midst. In Jesus the new form of the covenant that had been promised by the prophets is manifest, and that which was of a temporary nature in the old form of the covenant disappears (Jer. 31:31 - 34; Heb. 8). While there is unity and continuity in the covenant of grace throughout history, the coming of Christ and the subsequent gift of the Holy Spirit have brought rich gifts unknown in an earlier age.

And:

• 1) The Edenic covenant - God and man pre fall
  2) The Admaic covenant - Just post fall
  3) The Noahic covenant - Post flood
  4) The Abrahamic covenant - Children of Isreal
  5) The Mosaic Covenant - Salvation through Works of the Law
  6) The Palestinian Covenant - Promise of Land
  7) The Davidic Covenant - Christ through David seed
  8) The New Covenant - Forfilment of all other Covenants
  9) The Everlasting Covenant - Predestination, (Doctrine of Grace)

The Covenant of Redemption (Covenant of Grace)

a. Covenant of Commencement - Gen.3:15

b. Covenant of Preservation (Noah) - Gen. 6, 8, 9

c. Covenant of Promise (Abraham) - Gen. 12, 15, 17

d. Covenant of Law (Moses) Exod. 20, Deut.

e. Covenant of the Kingdom - 2 Samuel 7

f. Covenant of Consummation - Jeremiah 31:31-34

The above is the Reformed view of covenant.

As a quasi-dispensationalist (I really don't know what I am) I see the Everlasting Covenant running outside of time, as a Covenant made between God the Father and God the Son with the Holy Spirit bringing about the plan of redemption by God the Holy Spirit in different ways according to the glory and will of God.

Peace

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Well, the word "covenant" in this passage is italicized so it is not in the Greek. Also, the ongoing theme of the past few chapters, this chapter, and the next few chapters is the priesthood and how Yahshua is a High Priest. What is getting ready to vanish away or "near disappearing" (Strongs #1451 and 854) is the corrupt temple system in Jerusalem

I said
I have no idea of what your saying here. Lets keep it simple.
The definition of covenant in strongs dictionary is testament. See how simple that is.

2 Cor 11:3
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
(NKJ)

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

1242 diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay);

from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):

KJV-- covenant, testament.

 

[wavy]

I said
I have no idea of what your saying here. Lets keep it simple.
The definition of covenant in strongs dictionary is testament. See how simple that is.

2 Cor 11:3
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
(NKJ)

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

1242 diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay);

from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):

KJV-- covenant, testament.

You are defining a term which is not in the text. The theme of this chapter is still the priesthood and sacrificial system. So what he is making "obsolete" is the priesthood, not the first covenant. According to most Christian theology, the new covenant began after Messiah died and said "it is finished". That was, supposedly, when the Torah was "nailed to the cross". But how can it be "near disappaering" here in Hebrews long after his death according to that theology? It can't. This passage is speaking of the temple in Jerusalem with its ongoing ordinances. This is a prophecy of the destruction of the temple in 70 C.E.

 

[wavy]

Also, JM, there is no such thing in scripture as a "covenant of grace". There also no dispensations. There are two ages in Hebraic understanding. This world and the world to come.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
. So what he is making "obsolete" is the priesthood, not the first covenant.

I said
Well you do have the right to be wrong if you want.
But help me out here. I see the word covenant that you say it isnt talking about. And I dont see the word priesthood that you do say it is talking about.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

I think that is called perverting the Word or twisting it around.

2 Pet 3:16
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

 

[wavy]

Well you do have the right to be wrong if you want.

Was there a need for this insult?

But help me out here. I see the word covenant that you say it isnt talking about. And I dont see the word priesthood that you do say it is talking about.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

I think that is called perverting the Word or twisting it around.

2 Pet 3:16
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

What I said was that if you look in your bible, (hopefully it is halfway decent one) the word "covenant" is in italics. That means it is not in the original text. As far as priesthood, I didn't say it said "priesthood" but the that the theme of this chapter, the preceding and the successive chapters is the priesthood. Take a look at Heb. 10:9 and the surrounding verses. What he is taking away is the priesthood based on context.

 

[ddubsolo85]

@ Squeakybro

The definition of covenant is testament. I believe that makes it self explanatory.

Not really, as there are many covenants in the Old Testament, including the New Covenant. Therefore, I ask you again, what covenant specifically do you consider to be the Old Covenant?

This is a VERY interesting forum so far. I hope we can come to some helpful conclusions.

God Bless!

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Was there a need for this insult?



What I said was that if you look in your bible, (hopefully it is halfway decent one) the word "covenant" is in italics. That means it is not in the original text. As far as priesthood, I didn't say it said "priesthood" but the that the theme of this chapter, the preceding and the successive chapters is the priesthood. Take a look at Heb. 10:9 and the surrounding verses. What he is taking away is the priesthood based on context.

I said
That was no insult. Mostly humor. You look at the "theme" I look at what is written.