[_ Old Earth _] Creationist vs evolutionist, whos the fool?

[Barbarian]

I don't seem to recall Nietzsche anywhere in that first writing. You can't just associate an idea like that and claim causation...the fact is is that Hitler's anti-semitism was mainly a factor of politics and the Catholic church.

Hitler's anti-semitism had little to do with Christianity.

It is very much like Martin Luther's writings about the Jews. Much of what Hitler did was recommended by Luther.

They weren't evolutionists, but Hitler applied an idea called eugenics which was influenced by a STRAWMAN theory of evolution.

And where is the straw man in believing that one race was superior to the rest? Isn't that one of the foundations of the ToE?[/quote]

No. In fact, evolutionary theory shows that there are not biological races in humans. However, we still see one of the leading creationists attributing intellectual and spiritual inferiority to blacks well into the 90s.

If you don't have some advantage, something that makes you superior or stronger, then you will not survive...

You've confused individuals with mythical "races." There are no such things, other than social constructs, devoid of any selective value.

 

[Vanaka]

Your references say nothing about apes being different from humans, nor apes being classified as beasts. All they say is that the ship brought back apes, amoung other things. These "apes" in your reference could easily have been humans as well as the "lower" apes. But, I'm going to try and look up the quotes in the original latin, because I believe that the bible is using apes as an incorrect synonym for the other forms of primates that are not human.

And I am not afraid of bible references, I just don't believe you can use the bible to prove scientific facts, because neither God nor his word are scientific. And I believe that the stories in the bible are myths, although I believe they include facets of truth as well, just as greek mythology does.

:wink: The bible calls man,man and animals,animals.
Greek Mythology + Truth? :smt043
You have to say that because of the leaders you follow.
You should learn more about your religion before you preach,preacher
boy!
http://www.resurrectisis.org/PaganEvolution.htm

Evolution isn't a religion...you're stealing that idea from an already unintelligent Kent Hovind...but back to the point, the bible is not a book of taxonomy, and it is in no way justifiable enough to be used as one. As follows, you're wrong.

oh really?then how is that every government has had some sort of religon or another?and its not hard to see what the american religion is:Evolution,afterall,whats taught in our public schools?

 

[Jimbob]

Addition is also taught in our public schools.

Does that make it a religion?

 

[pearlz]

Im only 1/2 way through this thread, but this is so false i cant let is go.

It's rude remarks like those you just made that make
people get fed up with you. It's almost like you just don't want to
believe anything else other than what you want to believe.
You don't even have any evidence to believe in it for.
Are you just here to try to make new converts to your
religion?

How can you even go there? I haven't seen anyone try to convert anyone except you. You go on like your the only one whos opinion has ever mattered. You are rude, and besides the fact you don't have a clue what your talking about, you have yet to show a single christian attribute. Isn't there something out there about treating others like you would want to be treated? What about love thy neighbor? Do you have any idea what that means? No one here is attacking God, only his followers. I've seen numerous people here tell you that evolution only deals with what happened after life was here and that GOD VERY WELL COULD HAVE STARTED LIFE. But you (and this is to you to rmills) have completely ignored it. You have treated everyone with a differing opinion or people who aren't christian with true meanness. What your doing is pushing people away from christians and organized religion. I believe in a higher power, But Its people like you that will keep me away from any organized religion, and even from the bible, basically if your what christians represent, i don't want it. If you think (and i can only come to this conclusion from what I've read) your a follower of Jesus, you really should take a second look at what he is supposed to be. Cause you don't have it.

 

[Vanaka]

Addition is also taught in our public schools.

Does that make it a religion?

that depends,do you worship it like you worship Evolution?


lets see what worship means shall we?

Main Entry: 1wor·ship
Pronunciation: 'w&r-sh&p
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>


it seems to me that "natural selection" works as Evolutions supernatural power.

 

[Jimbob]

How is it supernatural? we know how it works, it has clearly been observed many times, it's no more mysterious than adding 1 + 1 to get 2.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean no one does.

 

[Vanaka]

How is it supernatural? we know how it works, it has clearly been observed many times, it's no more mysterious than adding 1 + 1 to get 2.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean no one does.

now lets put 2 + 2 together then shall we:


somthing that happens for no reason what so ever for wich there is no proof,and wich has no proof of being observed + stupid poeple = Evolution


next thing you EVOs are going to come up with is that poeple that don't "under stand" Evolution are retarted :roll:


BTW do you have hard solid proof of there being natrual selection,not just adaptation wich is an obvious ocurrence....

 

[Grengor]

Wait, you need proof of natural selection? Wow, go look outside your window.

 

[Vanaka]

Wait, you need proof of natural selection? Wow, go look outside your window.

all that proves to me is that there is a God.

 

[sheseala]

Why aren't there many albino crows?
We know that this trait occurs because it has been observed.

The reason for this is a white crow stands out in a flock, so predators immediatley target it. Heck, sometimes the other crows will kill it. There's also the problem of sun damage occuring and various other illnesses that could be attached to albinism. It sucks to be this particular crow.

Because a white crow is less likely to survive in the wild, it is selected against, by either other crows or predators. It does not live very long and therefore does not produce offspring.

That's one form of natural selection. I hardly see it as supernatural.

 

[kozaka]

I'd like to know why Vanaka decides he/she has to ridicule people to get his/her point across.

"somthing that happens for no reason what so ever for wich there is no proof,and wich has no proof of being observed + stupid poeple = Evolution" is what Vanaka said.

But...ummm...doesn't creationism match your description? There is no proof of creation being observed...did someone watch God make everything, if he did? Stooping to comments like the ones you're spouting only prove your own inadequacy in proving your point.

 

[pearlz]

oh really?then how is that every government has had some sort of religon or another?and its not hard to see what the american religion is:Evolution,afterall,whats taught in our public schools?

Evolution is science. And we teach science in our schools.

By your thinking, math, history, english, social studies, PE, computer courses, (and the list goes on)must all be religions. The reason creation isn't taught is because its a religious belief. And if you want to believe in it, thats fine, but teaching a religious belief in our public school system isn't fine. This is still America, and like it or not, we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

And just as a side note, if you want creation taught in schools, its only fair then to teach every religions creation belief's also. Are you ready for that? Taking religion into our schools is a slippery slide, do you really want to go down that road?

 

[Grengor]

LOLZ Evilution is t3h stoopid.
Anyways.... people who say things like that aren't even worth conversing with.

 

[Vanaka]

Why aren't there many albino crows?
We know that this trait occurs because it has been observed.

The reason for this is a white crow stands out in a flock, so predators immediatley target it. Heck, sometimes the other crows will kill it. There's also the problem of sun damage occuring and various other illnesses that could be attached to albinism. It sucks to be this particular crow.

Because a white crow is less likely to survive in the wild, it is selected against, by either other crows or predators. It does not live very long and therefore does not produce offspring.

That's one form of natural selection. I hardly see it as supernatural.

really?how come there are'nt red and purple crows then?
maybe it's merly because the serve some function that we dont understand yet?why else would they keep poping up?

I'd like to know why Vanaka decides he/she has to ridicule people to get his/her point across.

"somthing that happens for no reason what so ever for wich there is no proof,and wich has no proof of being observed + stupid poeple = Evolution" is what Vanaka said.

But...ummm...doesn't creationism match your description? There is no proof of creation being observed...did someone watch God make everything, if he did? Stooping to comments like the ones you're spouting only prove your own inadequacy in proving your point.

well.........then if it matchs that then:why does man want to be more then animals,why univsaly does man have morals simaler(ecuse spelling) to the ten commandments, you want proof? http://www.answersingenesis.org/ look here for more proof

Evolution is science. And we teach science in our schools.

By your thinking, math, history, english, social studies, PE, computer courses, (and the list goes on)must all be religions. The reason creation isn't taught is because its a religious belief. And if you want to believe in it, thats fine, but teaching a religious belief in our public school system isn't fine. This is still America, and like it or not, we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

And just as a side note, if you want creation taught in schools, its only fair then to teach every religions creation belief's also. Are you ready for that? Taking religion into our schools is a slippery slide, do you really want to go down that road?

Evolution is science. And we teach science in our schools.

really?well creationismis scientific,so I guess that makes creationism science to! :-D ...but wait....if creationism too is science then how come its not tuaght in schools :-? oOoOoOo :-D

By your thinking, math, history, english, social studies, PE, computer courses, (and the list goes on)must all be religions. The reason creation isn't taught is because its a religious belief. And if you want to believe in it, thats fine, but teaching a religious belief in our public school system isn't fine. This is still America, and like it or not, we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

I dunno..do you worship them?

wait..I'm confused..EVOS own the schools :-?

And just as a side note, if you want creation taught in schools, its only fair then to teach every religions creation belief's also. Are you ready for that? Taking religion into our schools is a slippery slide, do you really want to go down that road?

after you:wait you already went!

we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

ok then..why is Evolution forced down poeples throats?

do we have the right not to have Evolution forced down our throats?

LOLZ Evilution is t3h stoopid.
Anyways.... people who say things like that aren't even worth conversing with.

really? then how come EVO's always seem to find one way or another to insult me?I'm just returning the favor,and if you really think I care wheter or not you argue with me,I'm going to be frank:I dont give a dam(please ecuse language),and all this proves to me is that EVO's are sore losers :roll:

 

[kozaka]

Vanaka, suns do supernova, that has been proven. And religion has no place in schools. Evolution is a widely accepted religion and has scientific evidence and doesn't deal with some kind of supercosmic being.

And some of us do worship mathematics. If you think about it, numbers never lie. the only failing comes from people trying to understand it and screwing up.

 

[Vanaka]

Vanaka, suns do supernova, that has been proven. And religion has no place in schools. Evolution is a widely accepted religion and has scientific evidence and doesn't deal with some kind of supercosmic being.

And some of us do worship mathematics. If you think about it, numbers never lie. the only failing comes from people trying to understand it and screwing up.

Vanaka, suns do supernova, that has been proven. And religion has no place in schools. Evolution is a widely accepted religion.

ahem...I was speaking of our sun for the most part<.<...
and have just found out that our sun is a yellow star and will not nova or supernova :roll:

has scientific evidence and doesn't deal with some kind of supercosmic being.

where? :o

supercosmic being.

english please :o



man poeple need to use these cool smileys more :smt071

 

[pearlz]

Why aren't there many albino crows?
We know that this trait occurs because it has been observed.

The reason for this is a white crow stands out in a flock, so predators immediatley target it. Heck, sometimes the other crows will kill it. There's also the problem of sun damage occuring and various other illnesses that could be attached to albinism. It sucks to be this particular crow.

Because a white crow is less likely to survive in the wild, it is selected against, by either other crows or predators. It does not live very long and therefore does not produce offspring.

That's one form of natural selection. I hardly see it as supernatural.

really?how come there are'nt red and purple crows then?
maybe it's merly because the serve some function that we dont understand yet?why else would they keep poping up?

She gave you a perfectly resonable explaination and you come up with purple cows? I see someone so set in his belief, that no matter how much evidence she was to give you, you still wouldnt believe it.

I'd like to know why Vanaka decides he/she has to ridicule people to get his/her point across.

"somthing that happens for no reason what so ever for wich there is no proof,and wich has no proof of being observed + stupid poeple = Evolution" is what Vanaka said.

But...ummm...doesn't creationism match your description? There is no proof of creation being observed...did someone watch God make everything, if he did? Stooping to comments like the ones you're spouting only prove your own inadequacy in proving your point.

well.........then if it matchs that then:why does man want to be more then animals,why univsaly does man have morals simaler(ecuse spelling) to the ten commandments, you want proof? http://www.answersingenesis.org/ look here for more proof

Why are christians so afraid of animals? Why does our past scare the living hell out of you? We are, by definition, a animal. Human yes, but still animals. The reason man has "morals simaler to the ten commandments" is because man wrote the 10 commandments. Not a hard thing to figure out. as for you AIG website, you do know that they have a disclaimer saying that no matter how much evidence one might have, if it contridicts what they believe as the truth, then it wont even be acknowledged. Yea, i really want my answers from a place that wont even LOOK at another point of view.

How honest is that?

Evolution is science. And we teach science in our schools.

By your thinking, math, history, english, social studies, PE, computer courses, (and the list goes on)must all be religions. The reason creation isn't taught is because its a religious belief. And if you want to believe in it, thats fine, but teaching a religious belief in our public school system isn't fine. This is still America, and like it or not, we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

And just as a side note, if you want creation taught in schools, its only fair then to teach every religions creation belief's also. Are you ready for that? Taking religion into our schools is a slippery slide, do you really want to go down that road?

Evolution is science. And we teach science in our schools.

really?well creationismis scientific,so I guess that makes creationism science to! :-D ...but wait....if creationism too is science then how come its not tuaght in schools :-? oOoOoOo :-D

Then show me. If creationism is science, why cant they follow the same rules science does with facts that can stand up to the scientific community, peer reviewed papers and hard evidence?

By your thinking, math, history, english, social studies, PE, computer courses, (and the list goes on)must all be religions. The reason creation isn't taught is because its a religious belief. And if you want to believe in it, thats fine, but teaching a religious belief in our public school system isn't fine. This is still America, and like it or not, we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

I dunno..do you worship them?

Nope

wait..I'm confused..EVOS own the schools :-?

Not that i know of, where did you come up with that?

And just as a side note, if you want creation taught in schools, its only fair then to teach every religions creation belief's also. Are you ready for that? Taking religion into our schools is a slippery slide, do you really want to go down that road?

after you:wait you already went!

we have a right not to have (your)religion forced down our childrens throats in a public school system.

ok then..why is Evolution forced down poeples throats?

Its a accepted theroy, supported by evidence. Thats what makes it science and not a fairytail.

do we have the right not to have Evolution forced down our throats?

If you want to be ignorant to the world around you, you most definitly have that right. If you dont want to learn about it, then i sugest you attend a private school who shares your beliefs.

LOLZ Evilution is t3h stoopid.
Anyways.... people who say things like that aren't even worth conversing with.

really? then how come EVO's always seem to find one way or another to insult me?I'm just returning the favor,and if you really think I care wheter or not you argue with me,I'm going to be frank:I dont give a dam(please ecuse language),and all this proves to me is that EVO's are sore losers :roll:

Okies. Maybe if you actually had a clue what you were talking about, you wouldnt get insulted. You get back what you put out to the world. That means if you relish in your ignorance, then people will assume you are ignorant and treat you as such.

 

[pearlz]

well.........then if it matchs that then:why does man want to be more then animals,why univsaly does man have morals simaler(ecuse spelling) to the ten commandments, you want proof? http://www.answersingenesis.org/ look here for more proof

As for you AIG website, you do know that they have a disclaimer saying that no matter how much evidence one might have, if it contridicts what they believe as the truth, then it wont even be acknowledged. Yea, i really want my answers from a place that wont even LOOK at another point of view.

How honest is that?

Didnt want you to think i made this up.
AiG Statement of Faith
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... /faith.asp

By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

 

[Vanaka]

well.........then if it matchs that then:why does man want to be more then animals,why univsaly does man have morals simaler(ecuse spelling) to the ten commandments, you want proof? http://www.answersingenesis.org/ look here for more proof

[quote:9248b]As for you AIG website, you do know that they have a disclaimer saying that no matter how much evidence one might have, if it contridicts what they believe as the truth, then it wont even be acknowledged. Yea, i really want my answers from a place that wont even LOOK at another point of view.

How honest is that?

Didnt want you to think i made this up.
AiG Statement of Faith
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... /faith.asp

By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

[/quote:9248b]


well....where do they say that they:

wont even LOOK at another point of view.

:-?

 

[Grengor]

They say that when they sign a statement of faith saying they'll never change their minds.